EPTOn August 06 2010 07:09 guitarizt wrote:
What does sun tzu say about defending 5 gate allin as zerg?
What does sun tzu say about defending 5 gate allin as zerg?
that you scout that shit b4hand?
Sun Tzu was right all along - Page 2
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everclock
United States28 Posts
that you scout that shit b4hand? | ||
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Nub4ever
Canada1981 Posts
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Deucegladlier
United States98 Posts
On August 06 2010 07:09 guitarizt wrote: What does sun tzu say about defending 5 gate allin as zerg? He says make a lot of spine crawlers. | ||
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gdroxor
United States639 Posts
That's exactly what he said. "Spies Are a key element In warfare. On them depends An army's Every move." | ||
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TossFloss
Canada606 Posts
On August 06 2010 06:44 ella_guru wrote: Oh no, this again : ( ( There is very little in the art of war the is useful, as pretty much the entire text in this day in age is common sense, just eloquently worded. something so general like that , of COURSE it applies to SC "Limit enemy troop movement, maximize your own" ok, how? "Starve him for resources by keeping his people tired and then burn his bushels " ohhhh k I find mushashi translations are much more interesting to read, with sun tzu in this day and age it just quite simply isn't as relevant in terms of actual application. Uhhh... The Art of War gained popularity in standard American military readings after their defeat by Viatnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap, who intensely studied it. There's a couple mistakes with your argument. First, something can be obvious without being immediately apparent. For example, what you may learn in driving school is all obvious, but not immediately apparent. Second, there is a lot in the book which is not obvious. Such as: do not attack without an overwhelming majority, the types and importance of espionage, an team's effectiveness increases the deeper they penetrate enemy territory, and many more. | ||
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Bananas
Sweden98 Posts
Someday i'll pick up that book  | ||
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tfmdjeff
United States170 Posts
And as Starcraft is a game simulating war, the Art of War certainly applies to it. Although some things are a little different because maps are contained. For example, while you couldn't contain an army IRL because they could keep trucking in supplies from elsewhere and eventually overwhelm you (because real armies can't be maxed). In SC2, however, if you contain an enemy in his base (and assuming you have enough vision that you will know if he tries to sneak something out of his base to expand), you know that his resources will run out eventually, while you can take the entire map and get all the other resources for yourself so even if he has a maxed army and kills yours, you can continue to rebuild quickly. Starcraft is just a little different because the conditions are more perfect. Maps are symmetrical and nothing exists outside the map. But you're right; for the most part The Art of War applies to starcraft. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
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SiegeFlank
United States410 Posts
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TossFloss
Canada606 Posts
On August 06 2010 07:29 Bananas wrote: Very interesting read. Someday i'll pick up that book Which can be legally obtained online for free. I recommend an annotated version like below: http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
On August 06 2010 06:47 cuppatea wrote: "Terran is overpowered as fuck." -Sun Tzu fuckin rofl and yeah vagueness is masked by eloquence all the time | ||
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Rasta Ninjah
United Kingdom6 Posts
On August 06 2010 07:09 guitarizt wrote: What does sun tzu say about defending 5 gate allin as zerg? 6 Pool - Sun Tzu  The best defence is a good offence. The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable. - Sun Tzu | ||
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llortyag
United States64 Posts
On August 06 2010 07:29 TossFloss wrote: Uhhh... The Art of War gained popularity in standard American military readings after their defeat by Viatnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap, who intensely studied it. There's a couple mistakes with your argument. First, something can be obvious without being immediately apparent. For example, what you may learn in driving school is all obvious, but not immediately apparent. Second, there is a lot in the book which is not obvious. Such as: do not attack without an overwhelming majority, the types and importance of espionage, an team's effectiveness increases the deeper they penetrate enemy territory, and many more. While i agree that is it immediately apparent i dont agree that its not obvious because well its the same thing. Obvious things aren't innate they are something realized... well immediately lol Maybe what you meant is that Obvious things aren't common sense, which is what i would agree with. If you analyze a replay ( which hopefully every1 here as done) all these should come to you very quick. "do not attack without an overwhelming majority" is just another way of saying divide and conquer and any average person can understand ALL of these concepts which incorporate into your common sense as a starcraft player. So my point is this book is useless for starcraft players | ||
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muta_micro
United States183 Posts
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ioRa
Canada14 Posts
On August 06 2010 06:44 ella_guru wrote: Oh no, this again : ( ( There is very little in the art of war the is useful, as pretty much the entire text in this day in age is common sense, just eloquently worded. something so general like that , of COURSE it applies to SC "Limit enemy troop movement, maximize your own" ok, how? "Starve him for resources by keeping his people tired and then burn his bushels " ohhhh k I find mushashi translations are much more interesting to read, with sun tzu in this day and age it just quite simply isn't as relevant in terms of actual application. "Limit Enemy troop movement, maximize your own" Expanding creep to maximize movement speed, meanwhile limiting mech army movement. "Starve him for resources by keeping his people tired and then burn his bushels " Muta harass to keep opponent unable to expand and busy(tired) microing his units to defend. | ||
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luckySe7en
148 Posts
On August 06 2010 06:18 bobbeh wrote: Sun tzu and Miyamoto musashi are the gods of strategy no, htey are not. they sound great because they are so philosophical, but in reality, practical advice is always much better. | ||
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mill
Sweden7 Posts
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BamBam
745 Posts
On August 06 2010 08:28 muta_micro wrote: Wow..anyway listen go read Clausewits, and Jomini and you will realize just how little you understand strategy. In fact I will go as far to say that you know absolutely nothing about real war. Ive read Sun Tzu many times and I can tell you that not only is that book only very decent, but that you understand nothing about it. Seriously dude your not a clairyovant. In fact your a military ignoramous. I have actually, guess that military science class I took was mildly useful xD but as a safe starter, everyone knows Sun Tzu is really the grandfather as he was the one who brought the kingdom of Wu to great power, and if history taught me anything its that those who write it down first, receive the credit. Were there other generals before and after his time that were better then him? Honestly I believe that to be the case, but he was the first to really write down the guideline to war. I personally am much more favored of the work done by alexander surov, the Apache tribe, and Khaled bin al-waleed (had to look that name up tbh). Could I of rewritten the article to incorporate more than just Sun Tzu and make it much more professionally acceptable? Certainly. But not only would it be A) Confusing but it also would of mitigate the underlying plot I wanted received from readers. I made this article with a level of simplicity for that exact reason. | ||
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
By the way, one of the central messages of The Art of War is pretty hilarious when seen in the context of recent BW complaints: "Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle, but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting" | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On August 06 2010 07:29 TossFloss wrote: Uhhh... The Art of War gained popularity in standard American military readings after their defeat by Viatnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap, who intensely studied it. *ect* Nice post too | ||
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