• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:25
CEST 07:25
KST 14:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 20268Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0
StarCraft 2
General
RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 2026 TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners High level ptr replays? where can I find them?
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
Where is EffOrt? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9194 users

[D] Building Structure Balance

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
July 22 2010 05:13 GMT
#1
I did this a while ago, but never had the chance to post it. I've since uninstalled Starcraft 2, and am unable to add more pictures.

Sorry if my writing is subpar and you do not understand anything. It's late and it's summer. Tell me and I'll clear the section up.


One thing I've noticed while playing Starcraft 2 is how pretty the buildings look. Especially while they are being made. Each race is unique and it's also reflected in their building construction. But while I was busy admiring the buildings, I noticed something very strange.

Sometimes, when you are scouting, your worker is killed off the second he scouts an important building. Of course, that building is left in the fog of war and unless it's completely, you cannot possibly know what it is. But are you sure?



Problem 1 - Construction Phases

All races have four building times. Phase 1 lasts from 0-33%, Phase 2 lasts from 33-66%, Phase 3 lasts from 66-99%, and Phase 4 lasts from 99-100%.

Terran Example
Phase 1
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Phase 2
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Phase 3
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



Phase 1, 2, and 3 are construction phases, which is very clear. Phase 4 is the activation stage. For example, the gateway that you created lights up very quickly in that duration before you can begin building. Similarly, the Zerg building explodes from its shell, and the Terran construction site disappears.

As you can see, the building itself is clearly shown during the third phase. Every single Terran building reveals itself in the construction during the third phase. None of the other races' building animations show their true structure until the fourth phase.

That is showing the building at least 10 seconds before it is actually built.


Problem 2 - Structure Sizes

Only one random building is 1x1, the Sensor Tower.
Unimportant buildings, such as Supply Depots and Pylons, are all 2x2
Important buildings, such as unit or technology buildings, are all 3x3.
Or not.

The Spire is 2x2. So is the Dark Shrine. Why?

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
It is slightly less noticeable, but still definitive to a trained eye.


That is the Spire beside an Evolution Chamber on the same building Phase. Do you see how easily you can spot out the Spire from the other technology buildings while it is still building? You look for the 2x2 building and the only one, other than defensive structures.


Problem 3 - Construction Differences

Many buildings have unique construction appearances. The Missile Turret, for example, is built a circle instead of a square. So although it covers a 2x2 box, it has barely a 1 unit diameter. The rest of the Terran buildings are built exactly the same. This cannot be said for Protoss nor Zerg.

For Protoss, one important building is completely different, the Dark Shrine.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


That is the Shrine beside a Pylon, same building Phase. Unless you're colour blind, you should see a definite difference. The rest of the Shrine building animation is the same as the other buildings. But it is a bit smaller than the rest of the buildings, and different colours from the Pylon.



You should not be able to see through the fog of war. That is what the fog of war is. You see what you already should know. If the building is under construction, you should not be able to see what it is through the fog.

Sometimes, you click a building too late, and it is already in the fog of war, and you have no information on it.
Sometimes, you don't click on a constructing building, and fall to the fog of war, never able to know what the building is.

Unless that building is in Phase 3, and your opponent is Terran.
Unless that building is much smaller than your typical Zerg building under construction.
Unless that building is much smaller, and a different colour than your regular Protoss buildings under construction.

These are small balance issues. But they are balance issues, and can be abused.

I can imagine someone trying to poke in on a walled off ramp. The second they get to the high ground, and gain vision, they are sniped, but not before placing a building under construction. If that building happens to be Terran in Phase 3, the poke was successful, even though the player did not click the building to see it, he can determine from its picture in the fog of war.

These are aesthetics, yes. Each race is unique and special, and should have different feels to them. But that wouldn't explain away the different size for the Spire and for the Dark Shrine. On the argument about Stargates and their animation, someone argued quite well that although it was such a small design flaw, and even though it was a great race mechanic, it still hindered Protoss no matter how pleasing it looks.

This may be not as huge a deal, in terms of the possibility for it to occur, but if it can go wrong, it will.

Should this be fixed? is the question.
There is no one like you in the universe.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
July 22 2010 05:15 GMT
#2
Shouldn't be fixed imo. Same deal with Protoss Air units in stargate. If you're good enough, you'll be able to click it fast enough anyway.
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
July 22 2010 05:16 GMT
#3
Considering that you can click on a building and see what it is, its really not an issue. If you don't, and it was building and now you don't know, work on your scouting skills. The three races are seperate in their mechanics, simply consider this another one.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
July 22 2010 05:16 GMT
#4
Only potential fix imo would be Dark Shrine.

There's nothing wrong with them knowing it's a spire by seeing it's a smaller building. That's simply the size of the building. I fail to see any reason why all tech buildings should be of equal size, etc.

Not an issue whatsoever, imo, except for once again maybe the Dark Shrine.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
July 22 2010 05:16 GMT
#5
Wierd I read this whole post and not one mention of the assimilator.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
FC.Strike
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States621 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 05:19:55
July 22 2010 05:17 GMT
#6
Interesting. I didn't really realize that there were stages to construction (I mean I did, but I didn't really think about it)

I'm adding this to my mechanics compilation thread which you can find right here on Team Liquid.
--------------------------> My Smiley Face Disagrees, Your Argument is Invalid -------------------------->
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 05:19:04
July 22 2010 05:18 GMT
#7
Three different races battling in the space.
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
Leeoku
Profile Joined May 2010
1617 Posts
July 22 2010 05:21 GMT
#8
while this is all true and such im pretty sure by experience people can guess what buildings/click on em
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 05:24:15
July 22 2010 05:23 GMT
#9
I would rather not have everything 3x3 and all the same looking all the time. Thats way to bland for my liking and everyone clicks on buildings to check them so their isn't really a balance problem
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
Sylvr
Profile Joined May 2010
United States524 Posts
July 22 2010 05:36 GMT
#10
Interesting read. I think you may have increased my scouting skill by a point.

It would be uncharacteristic of me not to point out the redundancy of the title of the thread though.
Medzo
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States627 Posts
July 22 2010 05:53 GMT
#11
Read your whole post and it is pretty informative of a lot of scouting mechanics players should pick up on. However as far as I know this is not a balance issue and to me it seems intended. Both zerg and protoss have different weaknesses in hiding tech and in scouting. If you hadn't noticed, zerg has the best scouts but is the easiest to scout (creep/no walling/obvious tier progression [hatch/lair/hive], can see units being morphed in). Protoss can hide things around the map but it requires a pylon to be placed down first. You can also see what is being warped in and what is being chronoboosted. With terran you can see the building easier graphically but you can also place buildings anywhere and wall off your base. Also some buildings light up and have different animations when there is something being built or researched.
Lane
Profile Joined July 2010
United States46 Posts
July 22 2010 06:39 GMT
#12
I think it adds to the diversity of the game. Not only is it unnecessary to "fix" it, I think it's a nice thing to have.
Stimpk
Profile Joined July 2010
France165 Posts
August 02 2010 12:27 GMT
#13
I'm not sure this will change a whole game :/
Glacius0
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands66 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-02 12:40:28
August 02 2010 12:39 GMT
#14
Definitely intended. Definitely should stay. They added more building animations (when an upgrade is being researched etc) in the big patch (the one that had achievements) during beta. These are all intended for people with good knowledge of the game to have an advantage. And even with the picture you showed me I'll still have trouble separating a pylon from a DT shrine. Which one is which btw?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
Mid Season Playoffs
ByuN vs Shameless
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 109
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4281
Rain 4011
GuemChi 3201
BeSt 639
Tasteless 217
Mind 93
Sexy 45
Noble 22
ZergMaN 19
Bale 17
[ Show more ]
Icarus 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm149
League of Legends
JimRising 810
Counter-Strike
summit1g8893
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King98
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr65
Other Games
Day[9].tv1356
WinterStarcraft540
C9.Mang0514
PiGStarcraft373
Liquid`Ken8
RuFF_SC22
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream2253
Other Games
gamesdonequick949
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 30
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH135
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1761
• Lourlo1407
• Stunt558
Other Games
• Day9tv1356
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
18h 35m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
GSL
4 days
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Patches Events
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-15
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.