• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:57
CEST 15:57
KST 22:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-229Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14
StarCraft 2
General
August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Protoss AoE skill expression Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #4/8 - Percival
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion How FlaSh Nearly Forfeited MSL Finals being late BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Are High-Level Gamers more A…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6274 users

[D] Building Structure Balance

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
July 22 2010 05:13 GMT
#1
I did this a while ago, but never had the chance to post it. I've since uninstalled Starcraft 2, and am unable to add more pictures.

Sorry if my writing is subpar and you do not understand anything. It's late and it's summer. Tell me and I'll clear the section up.


One thing I've noticed while playing Starcraft 2 is how pretty the buildings look. Especially while they are being made. Each race is unique and it's also reflected in their building construction. But while I was busy admiring the buildings, I noticed something very strange.

Sometimes, when you are scouting, your worker is killed off the second he scouts an important building. Of course, that building is left in the fog of war and unless it's completely, you cannot possibly know what it is. But are you sure?



Problem 1 - Construction Phases

All races have four building times. Phase 1 lasts from 0-33%, Phase 2 lasts from 33-66%, Phase 3 lasts from 66-99%, and Phase 4 lasts from 99-100%.

Terran Example
Phase 1
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Phase 2
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Phase 3
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



Phase 1, 2, and 3 are construction phases, which is very clear. Phase 4 is the activation stage. For example, the gateway that you created lights up very quickly in that duration before you can begin building. Similarly, the Zerg building explodes from its shell, and the Terran construction site disappears.

As you can see, the building itself is clearly shown during the third phase. Every single Terran building reveals itself in the construction during the third phase. None of the other races' building animations show their true structure until the fourth phase.

That is showing the building at least 10 seconds before it is actually built.


Problem 2 - Structure Sizes

Only one random building is 1x1, the Sensor Tower.
Unimportant buildings, such as Supply Depots and Pylons, are all 2x2
Important buildings, such as unit or technology buildings, are all 3x3.
Or not.

The Spire is 2x2. So is the Dark Shrine. Why?

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
It is slightly less noticeable, but still definitive to a trained eye.


That is the Spire beside an Evolution Chamber on the same building Phase. Do you see how easily you can spot out the Spire from the other technology buildings while it is still building? You look for the 2x2 building and the only one, other than defensive structures.


Problem 3 - Construction Differences

Many buildings have unique construction appearances. The Missile Turret, for example, is built a circle instead of a square. So although it covers a 2x2 box, it has barely a 1 unit diameter. The rest of the Terran buildings are built exactly the same. This cannot be said for Protoss nor Zerg.

For Protoss, one important building is completely different, the Dark Shrine.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


That is the Shrine beside a Pylon, same building Phase. Unless you're colour blind, you should see a definite difference. The rest of the Shrine building animation is the same as the other buildings. But it is a bit smaller than the rest of the buildings, and different colours from the Pylon.



You should not be able to see through the fog of war. That is what the fog of war is. You see what you already should know. If the building is under construction, you should not be able to see what it is through the fog.

Sometimes, you click a building too late, and it is already in the fog of war, and you have no information on it.
Sometimes, you don't click on a constructing building, and fall to the fog of war, never able to know what the building is.

Unless that building is in Phase 3, and your opponent is Terran.
Unless that building is much smaller than your typical Zerg building under construction.
Unless that building is much smaller, and a different colour than your regular Protoss buildings under construction.

These are small balance issues. But they are balance issues, and can be abused.

I can imagine someone trying to poke in on a walled off ramp. The second they get to the high ground, and gain vision, they are sniped, but not before placing a building under construction. If that building happens to be Terran in Phase 3, the poke was successful, even though the player did not click the building to see it, he can determine from its picture in the fog of war.

These are aesthetics, yes. Each race is unique and special, and should have different feels to them. But that wouldn't explain away the different size for the Spire and for the Dark Shrine. On the argument about Stargates and their animation, someone argued quite well that although it was such a small design flaw, and even though it was a great race mechanic, it still hindered Protoss no matter how pleasing it looks.

This may be not as huge a deal, in terms of the possibility for it to occur, but if it can go wrong, it will.

Should this be fixed? is the question.
There is no one like you in the universe.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
July 22 2010 05:15 GMT
#2
Shouldn't be fixed imo. Same deal with Protoss Air units in stargate. If you're good enough, you'll be able to click it fast enough anyway.
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
July 22 2010 05:16 GMT
#3
Considering that you can click on a building and see what it is, its really not an issue. If you don't, and it was building and now you don't know, work on your scouting skills. The three races are seperate in their mechanics, simply consider this another one.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
July 22 2010 05:16 GMT
#4
Only potential fix imo would be Dark Shrine.

There's nothing wrong with them knowing it's a spire by seeing it's a smaller building. That's simply the size of the building. I fail to see any reason why all tech buildings should be of equal size, etc.

Not an issue whatsoever, imo, except for once again maybe the Dark Shrine.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
July 22 2010 05:16 GMT
#5
Wierd I read this whole post and not one mention of the assimilator.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
FC.Strike
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States621 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 05:19:55
July 22 2010 05:17 GMT
#6
Interesting. I didn't really realize that there were stages to construction (I mean I did, but I didn't really think about it)

I'm adding this to my mechanics compilation thread which you can find right here on Team Liquid.
--------------------------> My Smiley Face Disagrees, Your Argument is Invalid -------------------------->
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 05:19:04
July 22 2010 05:18 GMT
#7
Three different races battling in the space.
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
Leeoku
Profile Joined May 2010
1617 Posts
July 22 2010 05:21 GMT
#8
while this is all true and such im pretty sure by experience people can guess what buildings/click on em
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 05:24:15
July 22 2010 05:23 GMT
#9
I would rather not have everything 3x3 and all the same looking all the time. Thats way to bland for my liking and everyone clicks on buildings to check them so their isn't really a balance problem
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
Sylvr
Profile Joined May 2010
United States524 Posts
July 22 2010 05:36 GMT
#10
Interesting read. I think you may have increased my scouting skill by a point.

It would be uncharacteristic of me not to point out the redundancy of the title of the thread though.
Medzo
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States627 Posts
July 22 2010 05:53 GMT
#11
Read your whole post and it is pretty informative of a lot of scouting mechanics players should pick up on. However as far as I know this is not a balance issue and to me it seems intended. Both zerg and protoss have different weaknesses in hiding tech and in scouting. If you hadn't noticed, zerg has the best scouts but is the easiest to scout (creep/no walling/obvious tier progression [hatch/lair/hive], can see units being morphed in). Protoss can hide things around the map but it requires a pylon to be placed down first. You can also see what is being warped in and what is being chronoboosted. With terran you can see the building easier graphically but you can also place buildings anywhere and wall off your base. Also some buildings light up and have different animations when there is something being built or researched.
Lane
Profile Joined July 2010
United States46 Posts
July 22 2010 06:39 GMT
#12
I think it adds to the diversity of the game. Not only is it unnecessary to "fix" it, I think it's a nice thing to have.
Stimpk
Profile Joined July 2010
France165 Posts
August 02 2010 12:27 GMT
#13
I'm not sure this will change a whole game :/
Glacius0
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands66 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-02 12:40:28
August 02 2010 12:39 GMT
#14
Definitely intended. Definitely should stay. They added more building animations (when an upgrade is being researched etc) in the big patch (the one that had achievements) during beta. These are all intended for people with good knowledge of the game to have an advantage. And even with the picture you showed me I'll still have trouble separating a pylon from a DT shrine. Which one is which btw?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Weekly
11:00
WardiTV Mondays #99
IntoTheiNu 1497
WardiTV1105
TKL 149
Rex138
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SHIN 382
TKL 149
Rex 138
ProTech73
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1472
EffOrt 970
BeSt 918
Mini 715
Soulkey 668
Light 654
Soma 609
Jaedong 481
ggaemo 457
Stork 250
[ Show more ]
Rush 227
Snow 208
actioN 181
Barracks 141
hero 112
sorry 68
PianO 65
Sea.KH 60
Sharp 56
Hyun 56
Pusan 49
ToSsGirL 40
Hm[arnc] 35
JYJ 32
soO 27
scan(afreeca) 25
Terrorterran 20
HiyA 19
Sacsri 18
yabsab 17
zelot 17
Icarus 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Dota 2
qojqva2468
Dendi1123
BananaSlamJamma217
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1965
byalli645
kRYSTAL_60
Other Games
singsing2035
B2W.Neo884
hiko785
crisheroes291
Hui .152
Liquid`LucifroN150
RotterdaM96
Liquid`VortiX96
KnowMe80
Livibee79
ArmadaUGS63
Mew2King58
QueenE51
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV420
League of Legends
• Nemesis1944
Upcoming Events
The Patches Monday
2h 3m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 3m
PiG Sty Festival
22h 3m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-09
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.