• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:44
CEST 03:44
KST 10:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles2[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?14FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 684 users

Why the division system is better than you think - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 All
guitarizt
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1492 Posts
July 13 2010 13:49 GMT
#141
Needing to write an essay on why ranking is better than rating only helps the case for moving to an elo system.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Hemingway
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-13 14:06:28
July 13 2010 14:02 GMT
#142
It seems to me that there are two good solutions.

1) Bronze -> Plat small divisions, Diamond single big division
2) Keep small divisions across the board but also add a global ranking

I like the idea of small divisions so I don't want to see them disappear but it would be nice to see where exactly I stand in the grand scheme of things.

Oh and as for the OP, it only works if all divisions are iid (independent and identically distributed). As has been pointed out before this will not be the case unless the divisions are periodically "stirred" around (and I don't mean via resets I mean at random intervals players are transferred randomly between divisions). I don't like this random transfer idea, if I'm in a division I want that to be my division.
DC Elite
Profile Joined May 2010
United States152 Posts
July 13 2010 14:14 GMT
#143
I also still think the system sucks. Understanding how it works currently isnt difficult and if i have to read top x% one more time i'm going to break something. It doesnt take two posts, this one just being a compilation of the old one, to explain that rank 5 in silver means you are a top 5% silver player. Saying 8000000 times that you hope we understand what you are saying is patronizing.

The problem isnt understanding the system, it is the system itself. Who cares if i make it to top 3% diamond. Say there are 1,000 diamond divisions, which means there are 100,000 diamond players, being in the top 3% puts me in a pool of 3,000 top players... BUT WHERE AM I IN RELATION TO THEM? I dont want to be one of 3,000, i want to be #1... or #97.... or have some way to know what i am.

They simply need to have a bunch of servers again, maybe 16 since the game will be popular, and then some end of season official tournament with the top 2 or 4 from each server.
ltsmash
Profile Joined July 2010
United States31 Posts
July 13 2010 14:33 GMT
#144
On July 13 2010 23:14 DC Elite wrote:
I also still think the system sucks. Understanding how it works currently isnt difficult and if i have to read top x% one more time i'm going to break something. It doesnt take two posts, this one just being a compilation of the old one, to explain that rank 5 in silver means you are a top 5% silver player. Saying 8000000 times that you hope we understand what you are saying is patronizing.

The problem isnt understanding the system, it is the system itself. Who cares if i make it to top 3% diamond. Say there are 1,000 diamond divisions, which means there are 100,000 diamond players, being in the top 3% puts me in a pool of 3,000 top players... BUT WHERE AM I IN RELATION TO THEM? I dont want to be one of 3,000, i want to be #1... or #97.... or have some way to know what i am.

They simply need to have a bunch of servers again, maybe 16 since the game will be popular, and then some end of season official tournament with the top 2 or 4 from each server.


Why could they not do this with the current league system? Every Division Leader would get to participate in the tournament, it would be a massive tournament, one fully backed by Blizzard and I could see nothing bad coming from this.
specialization is for insects
DC Elite
Profile Joined May 2010
United States152 Posts
July 13 2010 14:44 GMT
#145
On July 13 2010 23:33 ltsmash wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2010 23:14 DC Elite wrote:
I also still think the system sucks. Understanding how it works currently isnt difficult and if i have to read top x% one more time i'm going to break something. It doesnt take two posts, this one just being a compilation of the old one, to explain that rank 5 in silver means you are a top 5% silver player. Saying 8000000 times that you hope we understand what you are saying is patronizing.

The problem isnt understanding the system, it is the system itself. Who cares if i make it to top 3% diamond. Say there are 1,000 diamond divisions, which means there are 100,000 diamond players, being in the top 3% puts me in a pool of 3,000 top players... BUT WHERE AM I IN RELATION TO THEM? I dont want to be one of 3,000, i want to be #1... or #97.... or have some way to know what i am.

They simply need to have a bunch of servers again, maybe 16 since the game will be popular, and then some end of season official tournament with the top 2 or 4 from each server.


Why could they not do this with the current league system? Every Division Leader would get to participate in the tournament, it would be a massive tournament, one fully backed by Blizzard and I could see nothing bad coming from this.


I guess i think it would be clunky because divisions are opening all the time. When the game goes public there will be a ton of diamond divisions making the end of season tournament too large. What would be great would be if they upped each division from 100 to 1,000... or 10,000. One hundred is too small, all of us at some point has gotten to the top of our divisions, its too easy. If you had more in each division there would be less room for wondering how good you are doing.
Doctorasul
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Romania1145 Posts
July 13 2010 14:49 GMT
#146
Divisions are nonsense if you care about ranking and no amount of overly-verbose posting and point-dodging can change that.

If Blizzard needs to manipulate the divisions to make sure the top players are not all in the same one, then the system is flawed.

The system would only show an aproximation of the percentile, but even if that wasn't the case, knowing I am in the top 15 percent is LESS accurate than knowing I am number 1254 of 7589.

Look, I can make a point in less than 1500 words without pretenting it's mathematical and I didn't even need a degree in statistics to do it!

Sorry - I get a little carried away when stupidity is defended with such vigor.
"I believe in Spinoza's god who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings." - Albert Einstein
{ToT}ColmA
Profile Joined November 2007
Japan3260 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-13 14:51:12
July 13 2010 14:50 GMT
#147
dont understand why a ranking (whatever) is so important for you guys....or even get disencouraged by the current system (lol).

Just dont give a crap bout where you r placed etc etc as long as u get games vs people of your skill - if this works fine it is all cool i think cuz the real deal is tournaments anyhow and this ladder is just a simple way to get practice games if u dont ve a partner for cgs.
The only virgins in kpop left are the fans
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
July 13 2010 15:53 GMT
#148
That was a good read. I never thought about the rank in the division as a percentile. It makes sense. I still hope they have an online ladder similar to wc3
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-13 16:34:11
July 13 2010 16:22 GMT
#149
Totally agree that the system is perfect for everyone average.

I just hope pro league will be a stepping stone for something similar to that of top 100 on the entire server rather than just a smaller set of divisions.

Because that is ultimately what having a ladder is about. I would rather have the top be a giant penis measure contest than to have the entire thing be no contest at all.

That’s the whole reason why people want a ladder. SO YOU CAN SEE WHO THE FUCK IS ON TOP, how many games he has played, his win percentage against all matchups, or is it?

While the current system is good for the majority it is not good for the fans or the pros themselves. Because if this is the ultimate ladder, and you have a set of practice buddies, what is the incentive to play on ladder outside of maintaining a position in this top league?

Its like making champions league for the top % of all football teams but ultimately not let anyone but the teams themselves have a look at how the team is doing in relation to a few set of other teams who just happened to be placed in the same division.

From the spectator point of view this sort of system is UTTERLY CRAP.


now how is that for an argument?
"Mudkip"
Prev 1 6 7 8 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Korean StarCraft League #77
CranKy Ducklings132
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft414
Livibee 105
RuFF_SC2 103
ProTech61
StarCraft: Brood War
MaD[AoV]42
Bale 16
Icarus 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever542
NeuroSwarm113
League of Legends
JimRising 679
Counter-Strike
summit1g10652
Coldzera 139
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King176
Other Games
shahzam772
Day[9].tv321
WinterStarcraft199
Maynarde148
ToD106
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick50007
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH122
• HeavenSC 75
• davetesta20
• Mapu4
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1511
• Stunt351
Other Games
• Scarra1583
• Day9tv321
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
8h 17m
WardiTV European League
14h 17m
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
22h 17m
The PondCast
1d 8h
WardiTV European League
1d 10h
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 14h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
[ Show More ]
FEL
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
4 days
CSO Cup
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.