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On June 13 2010 09:20 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 02:30 Alou wrote:On June 12 2010 21:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:
I quit SC2 and went back to BW. SC2 has been very underwhelming in my eyes, even vanilla SC is more exciting than SC2 tbh.
I think SC2 is too boring for casual players for it to become big, a lot of my casual friends much prefer watching SC1 over SC2 after I showed it to them. Hell even playing wise, they got bored of SC2 instantly while SC1 was a game they absolutely loved (and yes they were casuals).
Sports have hardly changed over decades, I don't see why new e-sports games have to replace old ones either.
Thanks for the video though, great as always. I call shenanigans. You show any casual gamer who has never seen SC1 or SC2 and ask them to sit down for a few hours at each and pick which one they would prefer to watch as a spectator, they will pick SC2. No casual gamer is going to pick BW over SC2. And yes, sports have changed over decades. Even me, a person who hardly watches any sports, can see that. Things change. I don't think it's going to change as fast as Artosis is trying to make it seem so he can get some more views, but things will change. Except I have, and they preferred SC1. One of my friends (who plays ALOT of WoW) never played SC1 before until he watched Flash on GomTV last year (shown to him by a friend), then he started watching it every day. He doesn't play SC, but he prefers SC over SC2. My other friend only played the campaign, but played SC multiplayer against the AI a few times. That was until I showed him pro SC and he got really excited about SC2. So I gave him a BETA key and he basically got bored and quit on the first day, but still likes SC1 both with watching and gameplay. He never plays SC but that's what he thinks. Another friend who plays SC a bit with friends and his family in a LAN only, no ICCUP. He only plays BGH, and has trouble figuring out how to beat a turtling terran. However he still much prefers SC1 over SC2. SC1 is a visually simpler to understand game, more barracks = more units, more bases = more money, defending > attacking, this isn't the case with SC2. Without these factors + micro and flanking, casuals will end up getting confused as to how someone won a game. SC1 is also a lot more visually spectacular than SC2. Psi-Storms, Spider mines, Dark Swarm, Reavers, Carriers, etc. Clutch play in SC2 will be rare, and when it does happen, it won't seem to make any sense.
Wait so the game that 99% of people say is easier, is actually harder to understand? What? I'm confused with the point you're making.
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SC1 is a simpler to understand game, never said anything about difficulty. Where does the 99% statistic come from, have you tried asking casuals? Have you tried showing them a game of Flash vs Bisu (or any micro intensive or spectacular game) and asking them to compare that to lets say, Idra vs Tester?
On June 13 2010 10:54 LUE.Leoj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 09:20 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 13 2010 02:30 Alou wrote:On June 12 2010 21:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:
I quit SC2 and went back to BW. SC2 has been very underwhelming in my eyes, even vanilla SC is more exciting than SC2 tbh.
I think SC2 is too boring for casual players for it to become big, a lot of my casual friends much prefer watching SC1 over SC2 after I showed it to them. Hell even playing wise, they got bored of SC2 instantly while SC1 was a game they absolutely loved (and yes they were casuals).
Sports have hardly changed over decades, I don't see why new e-sports games have to replace old ones either.
Thanks for the video though, great as always. I call shenanigans. You show any casual gamer who has never seen SC1 or SC2 and ask them to sit down for a few hours at each and pick which one they would prefer to watch as a spectator, they will pick SC2. No casual gamer is going to pick BW over SC2. And yes, sports have changed over decades. Even me, a person who hardly watches any sports, can see that. Things change. I don't think it's going to change as fast as Artosis is trying to make it seem so he can get some more views, but things will change. Except I have, and they preferred SC1. One of my friends (who plays ALOT of WoW) never played SC1 before until he watched Flash on GomTV last year (shown to him by a friend), then he started watching it every day. He doesn't play SC, but he prefers SC over SC2. My other friend only played the campaign, but played SC multiplayer against the AI a few times. That was until I showed him pro SC and he got really excited about SC2. So I gave him a BETA key and he basically got bored and quit on the first day, but still likes SC1 both with watching and gameplay. He never plays SC but that's what he thinks. Another friend who plays SC a bit with friends and his family in a LAN only, no ICCUP. He only plays BGH, and has trouble figuring out how to beat a turtling terran. However he still much prefers SC1 over SC2. SC1 is a visually simpler to understand game, more barracks = more units, more bases = more money, defending > attacking, this isn't the case with SC2. Without these factors + micro and flanking, casuals will end up getting confused as to how someone won a game. SC1 is also a lot more visually spectacular than SC2. Psi-Storms, Spider mines, Dark Swarm, Reavers, Carriers, etc. Clutch play in SC2 will be rare, and when it does happen, it won't seem to make any sense. Um, in SC2 if you want more units you make mor barracks. In SC2 if you have more bases you're mining more money. I don't see why defending needs to be > attacking to be a balanced game. This posts goes to show how little you understand about SC2.
Actually your post goes to show how little you understand about the difference between SC1 and SC2. Either that, or you are in the lower ranks of SC2 where you won't be punished for every little thing you do wrong.
In the case you are right, it still proves my point, because if I was a complete newbie I should still be able to understand this point. Good sports shouldn't require high level knowledge in order to watch it, people from all backgrounds should be able to watch the game and understand what is going on.
Nothing to do with balance, its about simpler gameplay and spectator appeal.
In SC2 if you want more more resources you macro more effectively using the macro mechanics. If you want more units, you macro more effectively using the macro mechanics. Adding bases and buildings is really only required if you are at your limit, spare larvae, double queue sizing, Mules, and chrono-boost all plays a major role in this. Good old large juicy bases are much less prevalent. Adding new structures is almost like avoiding getting supply capped now, rather than preparing for a boost in economy or a timing push.
Just look at Testers 2 gate PvZ build. Gateways arrive quite late, but he uses the stored energy to pump out zealots in a ridiculous time-frame. In SC1 this would be like a 3 gate all-in which much easier to understand, but also means there is time and money wasted for that 3rd gate. Are you telling me you would waste time and money on that 3rd gate even when chrono-boosting on 2 is much more effective? Its much safer to stick with 2 gates with stored energy thus becoming both an all-in or standard, this also makes it really hard to tell what exactly is going on.
SC2 is a fickle game because its difficult to defend, you only need a few more units or the right tech and it will make a huge difference to your game. You can't simply add more bases or more buildings because doing so will make you lose. Unfortunately this concept is hard to understand for newcomers.
Someone with more bases and more buildings can easily lose to someone with less bases and less buildings with a simple backdoor or timing push, not to mention the fact that supporting your army with additional units is now instantaneous (nydus / warp-in). To the naked eye this won't make any sense, which hardly makes for a good e-sport.
Anyway enough of this, I feel like I've derailed the thread, sorry.
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kinda weird that you have so much packet loss, i dont get that even if i ping form EU to Austraila
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LOL.
Artosis, you appear not to be very bright. I know you are bright and are just pretending to be a moron, but to force the issue, here's what you said :
"Yesterday was, perhaps, the last OSL qualification ever..."
If you're going to be disingenuous, try doing it with a dumber audience.
-m
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(To be more constructive in my comment, I think you'd be great on Fox News, Artosis.) Until then, maybe learn not to be a moron.
User was warned for this post
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(To be more constructive in my comment, I think you'd be great on Fox News, Artosis.) Until then, maybe learn not to be a moron.
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On June 13 2010 13:15 mitten wrote:
LOL.
Artosis, you appear not to be very bright. I know you are bright and are just pretending to be a moron, but to force the issue, here's what you said :
"Yesterday was, perhaps, the last OSL qualification ever..."
If you're going to be disingenuous, try doing it with a dumber audience.
-m
QFT
I just tried to be a little less harsh in my post, but seriously, such blatant rumor-mongering is ridiculous, and I don't know how such a respected leader of the foreigner sc community can get away with it.
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On June 13 2010 13:15 mitten wrote:
LOL.
Artosis, you appear not to be very bright. I know you are bright and are just pretending to be a moron, but to force the issue, here's what you said :
"Yesterday was, perhaps, the last OSL qualification ever..."
If you're going to be disingenuous, try doing it with a dumber audience.
-m
Perhaps
adverb
: possibly but not certainly : maybe
Eh? His OP made perfect sense. He made no definite statements yet people refused to watch the video and misunderstood, that's their own fault. o.O
Anywho, I think the OSL might throw a few more BW tournaments out there, especially since theres no guarantee that SC2 is full out ready for tournament play atm. It is nice that they're not afraid to enter the SC2 scene though, as it's most likely the future.
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Main Page Description of this thread:
If theres 1 man i trust in ESPORTS, it's Artosis. If he says OSL will switch to SC2, he's probably right!
... lolwut?
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On June 13 2010 13:15 mitten wrote:
LOL.
Artosis, you appear not to be very bright. I know you are bright and are just pretending to be a moron, but to force the issue, here's what you said :
"Yesterday was, perhaps, the last OSL qualification ever..."
If you're going to be disingenuous, try doing it with a dumber audience.
-m
On June 13 2010 13:22 mitten wrote:
(To be more constructive in my comment, I think you'd be great on Fox News, Artosis.) Until then, maybe learn not to be a moron.
Except he's not a news reporter and doesn't read off a teleprompter, and I'm kinda glad this is the case. It's his video, why can't he voice his own opinions? People watch Artosis's videos for a different reason to why they watch the news, but maybe you are too much of a moron to figure out the difference.
A lot of people are speculating that SC2 will take over BW after the Blizzard vs Kespa controversy, this is the perfect time to press this question and see what players really think, if this was totally not the case the interviewee would have just said "no, that is totally wrong". But you have to really press in order to find out that that is what the interviewee really feels.
I actually really like the way Artosis asks his questions, he has the guts to be controversial, not the kind of questions you would ask in a Bio interview, but they are the type of questions I (and I'm sure others) would really want to ask as well. Its his style that pushes me to watch the whole interview and see whats really up, I always leave the video feeling satisfied.
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I didn't see anything wrong with Artosis' interview. It being "the last OSL" was of course misleading, because Hwanni said it'd probably move to SC2. Don't understand why people are telling Artosis to go work for Fox News, though. Really wasn't that bad at all.
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On June 13 2010 13:43 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 13:15 mitten wrote:
LOL.
Artosis, you appear not to be very bright. I know you are bright and are just pretending to be a moron, but to force the issue, here's what you said :
"Yesterday was, perhaps, the last OSL qualification ever..."
If you're going to be disingenuous, try doing it with a dumber audience.
-m Perhaps adverb : possibly but not certainly : maybe Eh? His OP made perfect sense. He made no definite statements yet people refused to watch the video and misunderstood, that's their own fault. o.O
This is not entirely true. Taking a quote out of context from an interview to imply something that is actually completely unsubstantiated is deceptive (along with a suggestive title), and bound to make people misunderstand.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
im giving you guys sick inside points of view, stuff you cant get any other way. i didnt mislead at all. i said it MIGHT BE, which hwanni echo'd in the interview. someone ban the retards please.
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I approve!
Watching SC1 has gotten pretty boring tbh, it's time for a change.
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I really hope that OSL continues with both games, but whatever happens happens. Artosis, thanks again for the kickass videos.
Oh and this thread is kind of embarrassing due to the trolls, but it's to be expected with such a controversial subject. :/
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Why dont make SC1 and SC2 ?
:/
aniway at least it will be a crazy tournament for sc2
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On June 13 2010 14:34 Artosis wrote:
im giving you guys sick inside points of view, stuff you cant get any other way. i didnt mislead at all. i said it MIGHT BE, which hwanni echo'd in the interview. someone ban the retards please.
This guy goes and interviews someone who not only heads a pro team but attends KeSPA meetings and instead of thanking him he's copping flak for having an opinion of his own?
What the fuck. There are some serious assholes in this thread giving a contributor crap. So unnecessarily rude. Here's a tip for the guy comparing Artosis to FOX - he's not being paid to do these interviews and you're not forced to watch them. Leave your blatantly shitty criticism at the door.
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On June 13 2010 17:06 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 14:34 Artosis wrote:
im giving you guys sick inside points of view, stuff you cant get any other way. i didnt mislead at all. i said it MIGHT BE, which hwanni echo'd in the interview. someone ban the retards please. This guy goes and interviews someone who not only heads a pro team but attends KeSPA meetings and instead of thanking him he's copping flak for having an opinion of his own? What the fuck. There are some serious assholes in this thread giving a contributor crap. So unnecessarily rude. Here's a tip for the guy comparing Artosis to FOX - he's not being paid to do these interviews and you're not forced to watch them. Leave your blatantly shitty criticism at the door.
Oh he is paid to do these interviews. It's his job to create content for this website. Artosis was always biased, it's part of his charm and what makes him fun to watch, I can understand people being irritated if they dont agree with his opinions though.
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Good interview, thanks Artosis.
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EPT
