UPDATE: Localized! And a scoring system was added. Minimizing damage taken and casualties will result in a much higher score!
I was creating abilities for a contest at SC2 mapster and got bored, so I decided to make a little remake of the Thaddius boss fight from WoW. It turned out to be a very difficult and micro-intensive fight. Even I have only beaten it once on faster speed.
The three abilities are:
Polarity Shift: After 10 seconds, units next to units of the opposite polarity create an explosion of electricity that damages all nearby units.
Shocking Grasp: A random Target will be paralyzed and take damage over time. If any other unit comes within range of the afflicted unit, shocking grasp will jump. This can create a chain reaction.
Spawn Volatile Spark: Two volatile sparks are spawned, serving as summoned adds that should be DPSed down right away.
You can use game speed as a difficulty. Slower is easy, whereas faster is very difficult.
I can already see the flames at the blizzard boards about guilds only stacking marines, zealots and queens at this boss, making all other units useless.
This is a really cool idea. Good to see some more of the potential of the map editor. Do the units have single attacks? It might be interesting to see a map in the future where you could get a high-level game going with hero units/abilities and multiple players. Really will add some depth to the RPGs people make.
On June 12 2010 02:20 Zelniq wrote: this doesn't seem like it'd hardly improve your micro, it's more about strategy on how to beat thaddius wow boss, knowing what's needed, etc
The strategy is simple, pulling it off is the hard part. That's why it's easy on slower game speeds and harder on faster game speeds.
The micro practice I'm referring to is training your effective APM. You have 10 game seconds (about 6 real time seconds on faster) to spread out over 20 units based on their polarity. You also need to make sure they're always a certain distance from eachother to minimize damage from shocking grasp, which can quickly eat the heal mana. Lastly, archons (sparks) are spawned every so often and need to be focused down. Attacking with the wrong marines can move them out of your positioning, or ignoring them / mis-clicking can cost you many units.
Also, the timings begin to overlap as time goes by and you need to deal with multiple instances of these problems at the same time.
On June 12 2010 02:25 Whole wrote: This is brilliant. See if you could recreate Yogg-Saron. That would be neat.
I'd vote for c'thun 40 unit perfect circle spread with the occasional mass lazerbeam where you have to move stuff and spread. Oh dear, I can see a whole map beeing made for certain wow zones with respective encounter where you have to micro!
On June 12 2010 02:32 banana wrote: I'd vote for c'thun 40 unit perfect circle spread with the occasional mass lazerbeam where you have to move stuff and spread. Oh dear, I can see a whole map beeing made for certain wow zones with respective encounter where you have to micro!
I am considering creating a map like this. Maybe multiplayer, and whoever lasts longest or kills it first is the winner of the round.
Actually yea, I'm kinda curious to see whether or not certain raids could be replicated with the galaxy editor. I'm sure it'll be fun and certain fights could be really intensive on the micro.
Whats the default speed? I just beat it with a few tries, it was fun. I personally think the fight is easier if you let a few marines die though, its easier to spread them out since you dont accidently click on the wrong one.
I'm going to get to work on a scoring system right now, so the people beating it by letting all their marines die except a couple and then slowly killing it will end up with negative scores, whereas players who manage to keep all their units alive and minimize damage taken will receive much higher scores.
This is pretty fun. It's very hard to dance and micro all the units around quickly enough on Fastest, but I'm starting to get close. Had one death at 2000 HP remaining.
Thanks for this, any SC2 custom to do during downtime is appreciated
Is it possible to play with more than 15people(that seems to be the lobby limit at least). I'd so do all the WoW raid dungeons if i was able to use the editor
Who was that one wizard in that tower? I haven't played WoW in AGES but he was a fun boss. You had to run counter clockwise because he would rain fire, and then he would use ice... damn I cant remember much but it was always a fun encounter
On June 12 2010 05:15 Warri wrote: Is it possible to play with more than 15people(that seems to be the lobby limit at least). I'd so do all the WoW raid dungeons if i was able to use the editor
Hmm with the new map editor it may even be possible to reproduce the WoW UI or something similar.. That would be awesome I wont play WoW anymore just some Arena or raid in SC2P
Like there was a map: WoW-Arena in WC3 which i liked, but it was obviously not even close to real arena. What i like about WoW, is that the skill cap is pretty high because of the millions of abilities of each class(and some race), and that u have to focus on a lot of things at a harder boss fight or in PvP... But you cant reproduce it with the UI of an RTS, with like 12 buttons tops in the lower right corner So anyway good job, i would like to see some more of these:D (Multiplayer versions aswell of course)
On June 12 2010 06:48 Toran7 wrote: Who was that one wizard in that tower? I haven't played WoW in AGES but he was a fun boss. You had to run counter clockwise because he would rain fire, and then he would use ice... damn I cant remember much but it was always a fun encounter
On June 12 2010 09:18 Half wrote: My guild leader used to guildkick people who failed Thaddius after a certain point.
lol.
My favorite gkick was in the middle of a Reliquary of Souls attempt... one of the rogues failed at kicking, and my gleader kicked him as we were wiping. Hilarity.
Not bad, except that the real hard part of Thaddius was keeping enough people alive to get the polarity buff stacked high enough to do enough damage to beat the enrage timer. Sure, a good number of wipes were caused by douchebags being on the wrong side, but most of the time they only killed themselves, but since you lost their stack of the buff, you couldn't put out enough damage.
On June 12 2010 18:55 KawaiiRice wrote: I watched like 20 seconds and saw 0 micro I don't see the point. Unless moving some units around every 5 secs counts as micro.
I watched the first 20 seconds of "Debbie Does Dallas" yesterday and didn't see any naked ladies so I turned it off because it's obviously not a porno.
On June 12 2010 04:02 rrowland wrote: I'm going to get to work on a scoring system right now, so the people beating it by letting all their marines die except a couple and then slowly killing it will end up with negative scores, whereas players who manage to keep all their units alive and minimize damage taken will receive much higher scores.
Just put an enrage timer in just like the actual fight.
On June 12 2010 18:55 KawaiiRice wrote: I watched like 20 seconds and saw 0 micro I don't see the point. Unless moving some units around every 5 secs counts as micro.
I watched the first 20 seconds of "Debbie Does Dallas" yesterday and didn't see any naked ladies so I turned it off because it's obviously not a porno.
I watched the whole thing and still nothing of value. I'm not trying to insult the map but it doesn't really help with micro at all.
edit: It's actually pretty entertaining. Can make some nice rpg games with bosses like this
edit2: beat it on fastest. Didn't take too long lol beat again. My last guy died as he struck 0 exactly
Also polarity debuff should give you a very nice damage boost so that you actually have an incentive to not just keep your units spread out. An enrage timer would ensure this.
Nice map. Im not sure if translates well, but I've always liked hardmode mimi.
Actually made me think whether blizzard intends to release "pve" maps. In the back of their mind they know not everyone does competitive 1v1. Blizzard being blizzard they can even sell it. Its an alternate solution to dumbing down mechanics for the lowest common denominator.
On June 13 2010 01:06 Hyst3ria wrote: BC was awful compared to vanilla ... all about that C'thun, Twin Emps, and Vaelestraz.
Eh let's be a bit honest here.
I'm a diehard vanilla fan like most of the hardcore raiders were and I loved the back end of AQ40, most of BWL, and Naxx 40 but SSC and The Eye were well made encounters when they finally fixed the retarded trash spawn times. Blizzard still proved they could make hair trigger encounters when they made Mu'ru.
I didn't see raid encounter design really take a step dive until Wrath came out (Hyjal not withstanding -.-). Sure TBC helped the PvP guys out ALOT but they quite frankly...needed it.
I wouldn't say SSC was well made, even after they fixed a lot of it. Perhaps if they had kept Vashj in her broken state. The rest was a cruise though, including the original Hydross. And people really loved Vael? Really?
I can't even understand liking Thaddius, even as a fire mage.
On June 13 2010 01:06 Hyst3ria wrote: BC was awful compared to vanilla ... all about that C'thun, Twin Emps, and Vaelestraz.
I hate people who say this yea it was awesome waiting two hours to get 40 people to fill a raid it was awesome to have unconnected flight paths it was awesome not having summoning stones it was awesome to have nothing to do except BGs and raiding /endsarcasm for the most part, WoW has progressed into a better game
On June 13 2010 01:06 Hyst3ria wrote: BC was awful compared to vanilla ... all about that C'thun, Twin Emps, and Vaelestraz.
I hate people who say this yea it was awesome waiting two hours to get 40 people to fill a raid it was awesome to have unconnected flight paths it was awesome not having summoning stones it was awesome to have nothing to do except BGs and raiding /endsarcasm for the most part, WoW has progressed into a better game
BW : SC2 :: Vanilla : WotLK
For 99% of players, WoW is a better game than it was back then,
op, are you going to remake any other bosses? would be awesome.
yes, vanilla wow was a super grind....but it had some cool raids and awesome korean players like laintime ect that taught us how to have fun in pvp. BC was awesome too because of it's highly addictive arenas. wotlk is dumb because the game just got cluttered with new stupid abilities. I don't think they should have added like more than 2 abilities after BC for each expansion. Too much new content=less balance and some retarded game design.
On June 13 2010 01:06 Hyst3ria wrote: BC was awful compared to vanilla ... all about that C'thun, Twin Emps, and Vaelestraz.
I hate people who say this yea it was awesome waiting two hours to get 40 people to fill a raid it was awesome to have unconnected flight paths it was awesome not having summoning stones it was awesome to have nothing to do except BGs and raiding /endsarcasm for the most part, WoW has progressed into a better game
BW : SC2 :: Vanilla : WotLK
For 99% of players, WoW is a better game than it was back then,
You mean popular.
Popular is not always better. Alot of people eat at Mc Donals, the food is beyond crap but still they sell alot of burgers. Same thing with WoW, its popular now, alot more popular than Vanilla but still tis a shitty dumbed-down game for casuals. They made raiding avalible for casuals. Gha, dont get me going on wow again :D
Somebody should make all of the WoW raids as they're released in WoW. Like make an ICC map right now, then start working on the cataclysm raid instances as they're released in cataclysm.
I don't know whats wrong with WoW being more fitting for casuals now. If you have played WoW yourself you have surely read the millions of stories of people who ruined their lifes playing it.
Honestly, if you think a game should make anyone who wants to be successful in an overall easy game suck at real life, you should go outside more often. I played in WotLK and if you hadn't just ragequit after 3.0 you would know that bosses offer hard modes for better organized (often no life) players to fit the needs of both casuals and hardcore gamers.
Someone should remake all the original Vanilla wow instances just for nostalgia sake. Molten core, blackwing lair, aq40. I quit right before TBC but I didn't raid in TBC, just arena. I would love to play through it again in SC2.
On June 13 2010 02:56 Random_0 wrote: I don't play WoW myself, but have watched friends play it.
This vid reminds me of how boring WoW looks. just standing around and firing, healing. No dodging, no motion. Pure abilities and numbers.
Not quite accurate. I haven't played it in well over a year, and while it's mostly numbers, there are quite a few boss encounters that require you to move around/avoid green fire. Or even dance.
On June 12 2010 02:25 Whole wrote: This is brilliant. See if you could recreate Yogg-Saron. That would be neat.
Better yet, realise some of the bosses back when WoW was actually good.
Let's see some C'thun up in here!
While C'thun was a great fight. Ahn qiraj was a pretty miserable experience overall. And battlegrounds were out at that point so that is definitely when the game was on is way towards crap.
On June 12 2010 02:25 Whole wrote: This is brilliant. See if you could recreate Yogg-Saron. That would be neat.
Better yet, realise some of the bosses back when WoW was actually good.
Let's see some C'thun up in here!
While C'thun was a great fight. Ahn qiraj was a pretty miserable experience overall. And battlegrounds were out at that point so that is definitely when the game was on is way towards crap.
Old school AV was some of the most fun I've had in the game, especially before cross realms. That and it was a great way to grind faction reputation.
On June 13 2010 01:06 Hyst3ria wrote: BC was awful compared to vanilla ... all about that C'thun, Twin Emps, and Vaelestraz.
I hate people who say this yea it was awesome waiting two hours to get 40 people to fill a raid it was awesome to have unconnected flight paths it was awesome not having summoning stones it was awesome to have nothing to do except BGs and raiding /endsarcasm for the most part, WoW has progressed into a better game
Those are all positives and I agree with you that PvP certainly needed an extra boost.
First and foremost I didn't wait two hours to fill a 40 person raid. Maybe it's because I had a group of people that weren't carebears but it took a most 30 minutes to fill a 40 person raid.
Other than that though? The amount of effort required to attain good items took a massive dip. People tried to say that hardcore raiding was work but I was always of the mind that this genre was designed with that in mind. Not that raiding was work persay but that it was a significant time sink.
Effort -> Reward is a fundamental facet of any game... no matter the genre. You put effort into playing an FPS a ton and you get good at it. You put effort into a raiding guild and you got good items out of it.
WotLK certainly made everything easier to attain, and this is something you cannot dispute. I don't think this was the best direction that WoW could have gone but I was in the minority simply because I was willing to invest actual time into the game.
I think overall TBC added a lot of positive things to the game. I don't think Wrath did. It added really nothing to the game in terms of content but it certainly dumbed a lot of it down.
I actually think this would improve micro, granted you would have to understand the mechanics of the original boss fight, but if you did, a swap every 10 seconds could change 2-3 guys on each side, and single targeting them and swapping sides fast enough to survive is definitely micro intensive.
Edit / On WoW:
I personally did progression raiding for 2 1/2 years in BC and WotLK (I quit when ICC came out, due to a variety of reasons, the primary of which is how WoW had turned into the only game I played, and since I am not an epic fail like many others, I saw this as a sign to quit - permanently).
From my experience I think the main problem with WoW is that you either have to be extremely hard-core, or you have to be casual, there is not that middle-range of decently skilled players that aren't hardcore raiders but also aren't so casual they are inept. That range of players is very large in many other games, and since its not the case in WoW I think that's why the game lends itself towards become addicted (you start out casual but hate being considered a noob so you work to get better, but 'better' is playing every day for 3-5 hrs), and then as a result of playing too often, burning out and stopping for a long time or permanently.
On June 13 2010 02:00 Kylig wrote: You mean popular.
Popular is not always better. Alot of people eat at Mc Donals, the food is beyond crap but still they sell alot of burgers. Same thing with WoW, its popular now, alot more popular than Vanilla but still tis a shitty dumbed-down game for casuals. They made raiding avalible for casuals. Gha, dont get me going on wow again :D
That's a REALLY poor analogy. For one, the difference between McDonalds and a fancy French restaurant that offers "good" food is not just one of quality but of value. The food at the French restaurant is better, but it's also more expensive by at least an order of magnitude. By that judgement, a lot of people would consider McDonalds better, because while the food is shit, the price is also next to nothing.
The value comparison doesn't exactly factor into the WoW comparison because the subscription fee in WotLK is the exact same as it was in vanilla.
WotLK certainly made everything easier to attain, and this is something you cannot dispute.
I'm curious, did you get Immortal, OS3D, Algalon and etc with the appropriate gear (i.e. beating Algalon in IC gear doesn't cut it)?
nope but I did get all of my tier 9 and supporting gear through badges, ToC, and random drops. It wasn't worth spending time helping people learn the fights and farming consumables and shit like that for the minor stat boosts I would of gotten.
I didn't read through the whole thread because I'm sure there are a bunch of idiots who think they're better than everyone because of what video games they play and it'd be mostly a waste of my time.
So someone might have already said this, but um, this isn't really much like the actual Thaddius fight. There's similarities but the point in Thad was to switch sides based on which polarity you got. This one seems more like, don't stand close to eachother, kill adds.... Not Thaddius.
Still, good work, kinda cool. Shows that a RPG made in the editor could have some pretty interesting bosses.
Edit: Oy, I made the mistake of skimming a few comments after I posted. That was a mistake. Such ignorance! Such anger over preferred forms of entertainment! The gaming community is really pathetic sometimes :/
Oh and lol at anyone calling Vanilla "hardcore" If you want hardcore go play Ultima Online. The whole point of WoW was to be more casual then the other MMO's at the time.
But so long as we are taking requests, Mimiron FireFighter. Get to it. It'd be hilariously amusing.
People still don't know that the best way to do thaddius is have all positives on one side and all negatives on the other side, and when polarities switch, you just run straight through him?
On June 13 2010 11:50 Buddhist wrote: People still don't know that the best way to do thaddius is have all positives on one side and all negatives on the other side, and when polarities switch, you just run straight through him?
On June 13 2010 11:50 Buddhist wrote: People still don't know that the best way to do thaddius is have all positives on one side and all negatives on the other side, and when polarities switch, you just run straight through him?
We figured that out the first time we ran naxx.
We always ran around him clockwise. Doesn't really make a difference, both ways work.
Hahaha I love it. Remaking all of the WoW bossfights is something I expect to see in SC2 Personally I'd actually be excited for a Molten Core remake like was done in WC3, that was a fun map. Old school bossfights gogo!
The Onyxia encounter would be nice to see, such a long time since I've played WoW. Any plans to convert this into multiplayer (I know you can't do it now since there's no beta/lan atm)? With more people, you could probably do some more challenging things, and give the units more abilities for their specific roles, like dots, aggro grabbing abilities for the tanks, group buffs, casting interrupts, all that WoW crap.
Heck you could probably work out just about anything with the editor and proper triggers, possibly even loot or w/e for MC, back when WoW was challenging.
Is everyone forgetting the R on MMORPG? Rol dudes. All mmos are gonna be mechanic and time consuming, WoW tossed a little more dynamism that others had at that moment (as said there are tons of much time-effort consuming games than wow). WotLK made equipment easy to attain, but yet, not the best equip, for the best equip you still got to make ICC 25 heroic. The important part is the storytelling that wow has and very few other games have, the Warcraft universe is simply awesome and it has been since the release of W1. yeah, kind of pisses a little that all games are getting "easier", but you still can play hardcore if you desire it. Heigan the Unclean would be a great fight to make
WotLK certainly made everything easier to attain, and this is something you cannot dispute.
I'm curious, did you get Immortal, OS3D, Algalon and etc with the appropriate gear (i.e. beating Algalon in IC gear doesn't cut it)?
nope but I did get all of my tier 9 and supporting gear through badges, ToC, and random drops. It wasn't worth spending time helping people learn the fights and farming consumables and shit like that for the minor stat boosts I would of gotten.
You're not the one I addressed the question, but I assume you agree with him. So, you're claming WOTLK is easier, yet all you did was play the easy modes? Do you whine that ICCUP is full of newbies, while playing on D- level too?
Rofl I know right, guys who never beat a hard mode complaining about the game being too easy. It's like please, could you be any more full of shit.
Another thing that really gets me is people who define their game experience based on other people's experience. "I'm not having fun because some other guy I don't know and have no interactions with can get items from badges" - do they not realise how ridiculous they sound? The point of WoW, as a video game, is to enjoy playing the game, it is not to have a better character than another guy based on how many hours you played.
WotLK certainly made everything easier to attain, and this is something you cannot dispute.
I'm curious, did you get Immortal, OS3D, Algalon and etc with the appropriate gear (i.e. beating Algalon in IC gear doesn't cut it)?
nope but I did get all of my tier 9 and supporting gear through badges, ToC, and random drops. It wasn't worth spending time helping people learn the fights and farming consumables and shit like that for the minor stat boosts I would of gotten.
You're not the one I addressed the question, but I assume you agree with him. So, you're claming WOTLK is easier, yet all you did was play the easy modes? Do you whine that ICCUP is full of newbies, while playing on D- level too?
I think somebody else said it best. Wotlk segmented the WoW population into casual and extreme hardcore. The so-called medium core guilds were forced to go extreme hardcore or become more casual since anything in between is getting more and more pointless with each tier.
Map looks like a lot of fun! Can't wait to try it. Good for practicing precision clicking and mouse speed for sure!
On the topic of hard and easy in WoW, the last really hard dungeon was Ulduar. Unless you count Final boss hard mode LK.
I remember during Ulduar, I was doing Firefighter 25man... holy shit.. You want hard? Prenerf original firefighter 25man ulduar. Hardest fight I have ever done, and I've seen it all.
How about 0 light in the dark? That boss is still hard for guilds and people have gearscore that WAY surpasses the requirement to do that fight, and that's WITH the addons that make that fight 10 times easier than it was when originally attempted..
On June 12 2010 02:26 Draconicfire wrote: --- THADDIUS +++, run clockwise, do NOT try to run through the boss.
Ah, good times.
Baddie spotted
Any baller with skill and a guild full of non fail ran right through the boss, like a boss. I have to agree. "Move to the left people, let's keep moving," bad indeed.
This map was pretty fun, but kind easy. On my 3rd try I managed to beat it with a score of around 20400 losing only 1 healer (this was on fastest) An easy way of making this harder would be to add an enrage timer(mentioned already) so that you cant just run marines all the way out on the charges or making the bouncing shock thingy do more damage (so that it will do almost all of a marine hp) or just give the healers more starting energy and remove their regen (this will make it critical that you dont take unneeded damage).
WotLK certainly made everything easier to attain, and this is something you cannot dispute.
I'm curious, did you get Immortal, OS3D, Algalon and etc with the appropriate gear (i.e. beating Algalon in IC gear doesn't cut it)?
nope but I did get all of my tier 9 and supporting gear through badges, ToC, and random drops. It wasn't worth spending time helping people learn the fights and farming consumables and shit like that for the minor stat boosts I would of gotten.
You're not the one I addressed the question, but I assume you agree with him. So, you're claming WOTLK is easier, yet all you did was play the easy modes? Do you whine that ICCUP is full of newbies, while playing on D- level too?
Rofl I know right, guys who never beat a hard mode complaining about the game being too easy. It's like please, could you be any more full of shit.
Another thing that really gets me is people who define their game experience based on other people's experience. "I'm not having fun because some other guy I don't know and have no interactions with can get items from badges" - do they not realise how ridiculous they sound? The point of WoW, as a video game, is to enjoy playing the game, it is not to have a better character than another guy based on how many hours you played.
Why do people talk about PvE in MMOs as if its ever been hard or is even capable of being hard?
The only thing that has ever been difficult about WoW's PvE is finding enough people who aren't retarded. For intelligent players, there has never been a PvE encounter that was even remotely challenging.
While I don't really feel like playing WoW in SC2, I think it's a cool idea to put some kind of boss fights and/or "encounters" into the game. I was really impressed with the single player preview where you take control of the laser drill.
Remember the Terran campaign is going to be as long as the entire first game so a variety of mission objectives, creative maps, and pre-scripted encounters are going to be essential to making the single-player worthwhile. I don't want to spend 15 missions destroying an enemy base and 15 missions running my guys through underground tunnels to get to beacons.
WotLK certainly made everything easier to attain, and this is something you cannot dispute.
I'm curious, did you get Immortal, OS3D, Algalon and etc with the appropriate gear (i.e. beating Algalon in IC gear doesn't cut it)?
nope but I did get all of my tier 9 and supporting gear through badges, ToC, and random drops. It wasn't worth spending time helping people learn the fights and farming consumables and shit like that for the minor stat boosts I would of gotten.
You're not the one I addressed the question, but I assume you agree with him. So, you're claming WOTLK is easier, yet all you did was play the easy modes? Do you whine that ICCUP is full of newbies, while playing on D- level too?
Rofl I know right, guys who never beat a hard mode complaining about the game being too easy. It's like please, could you be any more full of shit.
Another thing that really gets me is people who define their game experience based on other people's experience. "I'm not having fun because some other guy I don't know and have no interactions with can get items from badges" - do they not realise how ridiculous they sound? The point of WoW, as a video game, is to enjoy playing the game, it is not to have a better character than another guy based on how many hours you played.
Why do people talk about PvE in MMOs as if its ever been hard or is even capable of being hard?
The only thing that has ever been difficult about WoW's PvE is finding enough people who aren't retarded. For intelligent players, there has never been a PvE encounter that was even remotely challenging.
Part of that problem is the internet itself. Could you imagine where people would be now without Thottbot, Addons, Wowwiki, etc.? It's really easy to nail a boss fight when someone has done it before you and posts a guide you can look at online.
Why do people talk about PvE in MMOs as if its ever been hard or is even capable of being hard?
The only thing that has ever been difficult about WoW's PvE is finding enough people who aren't retarded. For intelligent players, there has never been a PvE encounter that was even remotely challenging.
Sounds like 90% of the millions of WoW players are just "retarded" then, and you're an enlightened beacon of mmorpg raiding.
Why do people talk about PvE in MMOs as if its ever been hard or is even capable of being hard?
The only thing that has ever been difficult about WoW's PvE is finding enough people who aren't retarded. For intelligent players, there has never been a PvE encounter that was even remotely challenging.
Sounds like 90% of the millions of WoW players are just "retarded" then, and you're an enlightened beacon of mmorpg raiding.
Umm...90% of WoW players ARE retarded. Being good in WoW doesn't take a lot of skill there's just a ton of bad people. That being said there have been plenty of challenging encounters in WoW's history so that point was off.
I really can not wait for people to remake raids in SC2 (hopefully they do). This is a pretty fun little UMS and I'd just LOVE a full Naxx remake in time if mappers do it. It almost makes me want to learn to map myself.
On June 15 2010 10:45 d0da wrote: I really can not wait for people to remake raids in SC2 (hopefully they do). This is a pretty fun little UMS and I'd just LOVE a full Naxx remake in time if mappers do it. It almost makes me want to learn to map myself.
I was thinking the opposite, wow can't wait for people to be yelling over vent because someone messed up a boss encounter on SC2.
Why do people talk about PvE in MMOs as if its ever been hard or is even capable of being hard?
The only thing that has ever been difficult about WoW's PvE is finding enough people who aren't retarded. For intelligent players, there has never been a PvE encounter that was even remotely challenging.
Sounds like 90% of the millions of WoW players are just "retarded" then, and you're an enlightened beacon of mmorpg raiding.
Umm...90% of WoW players ARE retarded. Being good in WoW doesn't take a lot of skill there's just a ton of bad people. That being said there have been plenty of challenging encounters in WoW's history so that point was off.
being good in WoW requires time investment, it's more like "90% of players don't invest their lives into the game"
Why do people talk about PvE in MMOs as if its ever been hard or is even capable of being hard?
The only thing that has ever been difficult about WoW's PvE is finding enough people who aren't retarded. For intelligent players, there has never been a PvE encounter that was even remotely challenging.
Sounds like 90% of the millions of WoW players are just "retarded" then, and you're an enlightened beacon of mmorpg raiding.
Umm...90% of WoW players ARE retarded. Being good in WoW doesn't take a lot of skill there's just a ton of bad people. That being said there have been plenty of challenging encounters in WoW's history so that point was off.
being good in WoW requires time investment, it's more like "90% of players don't invest their lives into the game"
It IS time investment (mostly due to the "need the gear" factor) but is important not to be stupid, so a good player can't be measured just for the amount of hours in game.
As said, lots of addons made life REALLY easy (you get big red banners in the middle of the screen telling you to move with a sound file telling you the same thing, you have to be afk not to notice it). In fact many players could not believe that I don't use addons (except recount but that doesn't really help you play better in the moment of the fight, although I use it to review my performance afterwards and think about how to do my job better, for those who don't know recount is a dps/heal meter).
That said, the guys which struggle for a world first don't have guides (I take the LK WF by Parangon as an example), they only know the fights as soon as they appear in the TSR, that kind of addons don't work (since they don't "know the fight yet) and they are not overgeared for those, and there are some fights which require certain skill. Of course there are tons of games harder than wow (starcraft anyone?) and the wow community being retards on its majority doesn't help either.
On June 13 2010 01:06 Hyst3ria wrote: BC was awful compared to vanilla ... all about that C'thun, Twin Emps, and Vaelestraz.
I hate people who say this yea it was awesome waiting two hours to get 40 people to fill a raid it was awesome to have unconnected flight paths it was awesome not having summoning stones it was awesome to have nothing to do except BGs and raiding /endsarcasm for the most part, WoW has progressed into a better game
BW : SC2 :: Vanilla : WotLK
For 99% of players, WoW is a better game than it was back then,
You mean popular.
Popular is not always better. Alot of people eat at Mc Donals, the food is beyond crap but still they sell alot of burgers. Same thing with WoW, its popular now, alot more popular than Vanilla but still tis a shitty dumbed-down game for casuals. They made raiding avalible for casuals. Gha, dont get me going on wow again :D
I dont see the problem with it, you might be forgetting about the countless hours sitting in some raid group having to listen to the same a-hole all night long trash talking the raid lol. I work night shift and now I could probably pug a group to kill the lich king.
Why do people talk about PvE in MMOs as if its ever been hard or is even capable of being hard?
The only thing that has ever been difficult about WoW's PvE is finding enough people who aren't retarded. For intelligent players, there has never been a PvE encounter that was even remotely challenging.
Sounds like 90% of the millions of WoW players are just "retarded" then, and you're an enlightened beacon of mmorpg raiding.
Umm...90% of WoW players ARE retarded. Being good in WoW doesn't take a lot of skill there's just a ton of bad people. That being said there have been plenty of challenging encounters in WoW's history so that point was off.
being good in WoW requires time investment, it's more like "90% of players don't invest their lives into the game"
That's completely wrong. I was in a guild that was ranked 12th in the world at one point. Time investment is very minimal when you are deciding if someone is good or not. Time investment just determines if there is room for you in a certain guild atmosphere. There are plenty of good players that do a great job, with shitty gear, that simply cannot dedicate the time some people can. These are the players that benefit from the new raiding style the most.
Because the new raids are small, and non-hardmode guilds get gear that is only a step below the hardmode gear, the good players that do not have the time to play hardcore and see the hardmode (Even if they are good, they simply do not have the time to make 50 attempts on hardmodes for 3-4 nights a week,) so instead they blow through two things: new easymode content, old hardmode content. Therefore, they will get the following accomplished:
- Their raid schedule consists of very little challenge if they are good players and not attempting hard modes - They will acquire the most loot in the shortest period of time - Because of how frequent most mid tier dungeons release, they lose the least in terms of gear score comparitively to the time they have input on attaining that gear.
WoW caters to the casual, this is a prime example. Good players that don't have time to be hardcore reap the highest amount of benefits. The only thing that is absolutely lower, overall gearscore of attained items.
Why is this thread used to discuss WoW? Haters will be hating. As long as skill is a determining factor, skill differences will come to light in a competitive environment. WoW bashers just trash WoW to make themselves feel better for not playing it. If they're so confident that it's a skill-less game, they can subscribe and join the tournament realm to prove it.
WotLK certainly made everything easier to attain, and this is something you cannot dispute.
I'm curious, did you get Immortal, OS3D, Algalon and etc with the appropriate gear (i.e. beating Algalon in IC gear doesn't cut it)?
nope but I did get all of my tier 9 and supporting gear through badges, ToC, and random drops. It wasn't worth spending time helping people learn the fights and farming consumables and shit like that for the minor stat boosts I would of gotten.
You're not the one I addressed the question, but I assume you agree with him. So, you're claming WOTLK is easier, yet all you did was play the easy modes? Do you whine that ICCUP is full of newbies, while playing on D- level too?
Rofl I know right, guys who never beat a hard mode complaining about the game being too easy. It's like please, could you be any more full of shit.
Another thing that really gets me is people who define their game experience based on other people's experience. "I'm not having fun because some other guy I don't know and have no interactions with can get items from badges" - do they not realise how ridiculous they sound? The point of WoW, as a video game, is to enjoy playing the game, it is not to have a better character than another guy based on how many hours you played.
Why do people talk about PvE in MMOs as if its ever been hard or is even capable of being hard?
The only thing that has ever been difficult about WoW's PvE is finding enough people who aren't retarded. For intelligent players, there has never been a PvE encounter that was even remotely challenging.
I know at least in EverQuest there were a ton of difficult encounters. It's true if you gear up and follow a guide, virtually every encounter is easy. But if you know nothing about an encounter and you haven't farmed the hell out of everything that comes before it, they can be pretty damn difficult. The guilds who get first kills or close to first kills aren't made up entirely of people with progamer talent, but they aren't just "not retarded" either. I didn't follow WoW progression much so I can't speak to that but I imagine it's somewhat similar. The people playing the game without spoilers and guides and walkthroughs have a stimulating challenge while everyone else gets spoon fed encounters and hopes to not be held back by complete idiots.
Thaddius 40 before there were retards trying to raid so blizzard had to dumb everything down was good, but what we really need is an original 4H fight done up in SC2. no dumb ass 'pinned to the ground using ranged attacks' or running to the corners for you, also no namby pamby 30 second marks, real men did it with 75 second durations, and no burning down a horseman, the popped shield wall, not once but TWICE EACH.
4H remains the longest time between first encountered and killed without any balance tweaks at 7 weeks, those were the days of raiding...
On June 16 2010 01:39 Shiladie wrote: Thaddius 40 before there were retards trying to raid so blizzard had to dumb everything down was good, but what we really need is an original 4H fight done up in SC2. no dumb ass 'pinned to the ground using ranged attacks' or running to the corners for you, also no namby pamby 30 second marks, real men did it with 75 second durations, and no burning down a horseman, the popped shield wall, not once but TWICE EACH.
4H remains the longest time between first encountered and killed without any balance tweaks at 7 weeks, those were the days or raiding...
It's sad that PvE got 10 times easier after TBC, but I guess guilds improve too.. They should make PvE so much harder :\
gotta love how almost everyone defending wow or talking about it in this thread created an account sometime in the last 4 months. like seriously, go take your garbage 'disputes' back to mmo-champ or some other shit of a site that will have you, this is SC2 section.
EPT
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