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I want to try and maybe make a at least an early list of some things to consider when choosing a map with a race in mind. If a topic like this already exists, I'll preemptively apologize.
For example, I'll start this list by saying that I've heard that the ledges in Incineration Zone gives Terrans the advantage on this map against both Protoss and Zerg since it gives a bit more advantage to Reapers and Siege Tanks.
I don't know the reasoning behind it, but I've heard Day9 mention that Metalopolis is a very Zerg-favored map.
Incineration Zone
Terrans - Cliffs allow for good use of Siege Tanks and Reapers
Metalpolis
Zerg - Can expand more easily?
Blistering Sands
Terran - Backdoor is actually worse for terran because they'll need to defend two entrances to hold 2 bases, which dramatically slows down their expansions and pushes.
Kulas Ravine
Protoss - Stalkers Blinking through destructible rocks allows for more effective base raids.
I'm perfectly willing to admit that I probably don't have the best understanding of this game yet, so I'll edit the OP if enough (Just like 2-3+) people think the reasoning is flawed.
At the same time, I'd like a BIT of a consensus before more are added on. Like 2 other people agreeing with a reasoning.
Also, I'm not the best at finding/acquiring replays, so of course, replays being posted would be a HUGE plus.
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i would argue that blistering sands isnt as reaper biased as you'd think. the reapers are very easily blocked by both the other races, and in the end the backdoor is actually worse for terran because they'll need to defend two entrances to hold 2 bases, which dramatically slows down their expansions and pushes.
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Lost Temple has the abusable cliffs for Siege Tanks.
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Kulas Ravine
Terran - Reaper harrass, Tanks on cliffs, "hidden" Terran starting location behind double rocks
Protoss - cliffwalking Colossi-harrass
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for metalopolis late game pvt (and zvt i guess too), if the map is split, the protoss actually cant take the gold expo because of siege tanks easily sieging your miners from there side, makes it basically auto-win if it gets to the stage where the map is split in half.
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On May 13 2010 11:37 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
i would argue that blistering sands isnt as reaper biased as you'd think. the reapers are very easily blocked by both the other races, and in the end the backdoor is actually worse for terran because they'll need to defend two entrances to hold 2 bases, which dramatically slows down their expansions and pushes.
Good good, I'm perfectly willing to admit that I probably don't have the best understanding of this game yet, so I'll edit the OP if enough people think the reasoning is flawed.
At the same time, I'd like a BIT of a consensus before more are added on. Like 2 other people agreeing with a reasoning.
Also, I don't know my way around replays, so of course, replays being posted would be a HUGE plus.
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kulas ravine - Reaper harras, big expo area to harras with hellions, cliff to use siege tanks, narrow chokes everywhere, free expo behind rocks... this map is terrans paradise vs Zerg
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steps of war, zerg 6 pool is very very gay. You will loss 3-6 workers depends on your micro.
Lower level will not stand a chance against this.
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Metalopolis can be heaven for muta harass at some positions because both the main and natural minerals are both essentially facing a cliff. You can practically attack both mineral lines simultaneously.
6 o'clock is the one exception where there's almost no space behind the minerals, and 3 o'clock probably wouldn't leave a safe zone for any AA range 6.
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Edited the OP. Replays showcasing the advantages would really help guys!
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Kulas Ravine. Terrans can safely expand to their naturals and power off 3 bases. If you spawn with your opponent horizontally across, you can siege his natural with the sight of a watchtower.
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On May 13 2010 11:33 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote:
Blistering Sands
Terran - 2 entrances and short rush distance allows for a Reaper backdoor harass.
The exactly other way, Backdoor entrance is a pain in the ass for Terran, as they heavily depend on having a good defense for their usually weaker ground forces in early to midgame.
Not a proof, but a reminder: Lucifron chose Blistering Sands against DeMuslim after he lost the first map in a TvT. DeMuslim switched to protoss and Lucifron did the same after he saw it.
Scrap Station: Extremely close Air, very far ground attack way plus huge choke gives alot of problems to terran, also good for zerg who can expand easily as they only have to take care of one attack path until lategame. Also favors mutalisks even against thors because it is very hard to keep mainbase save _and_ attack against them.
Metalopolis is quite a zerg map because it's extremely easy to get many expansions.
I expect Steppes of War to become a Terran map some day in the future since it's very good for a Siegetank macro game.
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Yeah, i was shaky about that one. I'll edit it.
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Oh god here we fucking go again, everyone's calling maps T favored just because cliffs exist. You guys realize other races have air/cliffwalking units too, right?
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I'm not fully sure why you say metalopolis is good for zerg expanding, can you elaborate?
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On May 13 2010 12:01 Onea wrote:
I'm not fully sure why you say metalopolis is good for zerg expanding, can you elaborate?
I'm not quite sure either, I've heard it in various places but like I said, I don't know the exact reasoning yet. Hopefully someone else can elaborate for me.
Tsagacity posted one reasoning in this topic:
On May 13 2010 11:46 Tsagacity wrote:
Metalopolis can be heaven for muta harass at some positions because both the main and natural minerals are both essentially facing a cliff. You can practically attack both mineral lines simultaneously.
6 o'clock is the one exception where there's almost no space behind the minerals, and 3 o'clock probably wouldn't leave a safe zone for any AA range 6.
Sounds reasonable, just waiting for someone to confirm/elaborate on more/different advantages.
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i would say that blistering sands is terran favored for a rush, but in general, protoss favored because of blink, and less of a need for expos. As Zerg, i have trouble on this map because i cannot hold my expos very well
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On May 13 2010 12:01 Onea wrote:
I'm not fully sure why you say metalopolis is good for zerg expanding, can you elaborate?
It is very easy to spread creep over the zerg's map half when the positions are not ground close position and expand everywhere. Unit's simply can gather close to the golden minderal expo on zerg's side and easily defend both ground attack paths.
On May 13 2010 12:07 Rkie wrote:
i would say that blistering sands is terran favored for a rush, but in general, protoss favored because of blink, and less of a need for expos. As Zerg, i have trouble on this map because i cannot hold my expos very well
Zerg can build up midgame pressure because of the two entrances, as the secoond one can easily be opened with ranged units. From there on it is not difficult to expand further.
I really don't see why everybody says it was good for terran rush? The distance isn't that short and it's very hard to harass a zerg with hellions on it because it has a narrow choke in front of the natural. Once the natural is up, it can be easily defended.
Also I think that desert oasis is very good for Protoss against Terran (dunno about Zerg). Stalkers can harass very good with an observer because the main is attackable from various sides, actually from almost everywhere. Also they can get quick access to Shuttles to set up harassment or even do a full rush with 5 warpgates+warpprism whereas pure ground attacks are almost not possible.
It also is a very strong map for voidrays of course.
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a thread on map imbalances and Desert Oasis has yet to be mentioned!?
Desert Oasis is heavily zerg favored, because long distances make early game pressure extremely ineffective and distances between main and nat make muta harass gamebreaking.
In PvT desert oasis, P has the ability to freely snipe the gases in the Terran main with void rays, without marines being able to defend it because they are outranged.
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Scrap Station is I believe the only map where protoss can threaten a ground attack into the back of your main from a position that any other race can only reach with air or maybe you can do this on LT as well I've never looked closely enough at the distance between the corner positions.
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Metalpolis
Zerg - Can expand more easily?
Terran IMO. Huge cliff for reapers harass. tank does a wonderful job defending also.
You can also make a big wall with B2 and B3 like in LTO vs Nazgul. Tank are doin wonderful job on this map.
Kulas Ravine
Protoss - Stalkers Blinking through destructible rocks allows for more effective base raids.
No doubt this is terran for this one.
Incerdible number of spots to make drop with tank, reaper harass on the wall from the upper cliff, incredible numbers of cheese (I'm pretty damn sure, I have worked with a friend on all terran cheese possible on this map and how to recognize them by scouting. Some of them are just so horrible like false wall and move to gold minerals).
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Kulas is totally terran favored. Cliffs everywhere and Xel'naga towers up on hills that reapers can take control of very early and easily that nobody else can do anything about until mid game. Terrans can also take the expos behind the destructable rocks easier and earlier than both the other races. But that's not all! The choke at the main is also the easiest to wall of all the maps!
Finally, if they take the natural expo right across from yours, their siege tanks can be set in their money to both defend their expo and defend any shenanigans they put on the cliff in between the bases to kill your workers/nat; When you run up there to kill those marauders blasting your drones, oh guess what? BOOM death from a bunch of tanks sitting at his nat.
edit: I'd say desert oasis in zerg favored. Naturals are wide open and susceptible to raids/muta harass and the map has huge land distances between the bases, which I think benefits zerg and their speedy units. Also, the map is wide open with very few choke points which once against benefits zerg the most. Zerg wants to surround their enemy and hence love wide open fields.
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Desert Oasis. Terrans have that convenient option of Reapers and Tanks harrassing (not even harrassing at times but destroying) the main's mineral line early to mid game.
Seriously, an aggressive push with some reapers, an scv (for bunker and repairs), and seige tanks next to mineral line will slingshot you with an advantage (wall in your base and defend with tanks if they attempt base race)
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On May 13 2010 12:26 kamicom wrote:
Desert Oasis. Terrans have that convenient option of Reapers and Tanks harrassing (not even harrassing at times but destroying) the main's mineral line early to mid game.
Seriously, an aggressive push with some reapers, an scv (for bunker and repairs), and seige tanks next to mineral line will slingshot you with an advantage (wall in your base and defend with tanks if they attempt base race)
For the same reason that tanks are a pain in the ass on desert oasis so is voidrays though. Furthermore I would say that voidrays specifically are extremely favored on kulas ravine, blistering sands and steppes of war as the mineral line is backed right up against a void that you cannot reach by ground.
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On May 13 2010 12:17 t3tsubo wrote:
a thread on map imbalances and Desert Oasis has yet to be mentioned!?
Desert Oasis is heavily zerg favored, because long distances make early game pressure extremely ineffective and distances between main and nat make muta harass gamebreaking.
In PvT desert oasis, P has the ability to freely snipe the gases in the Terran main with void rays, without marines being able to defend it because they are outranged.
Tanks can siege the main CC from the ridge near the mains. Lots of annoying little tricks on DO
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As a Terran Player:
Winning a TvZ on Blistering Sands and especially Desert Oasis seems impossible.... Zerg can just out econ you so easily and then pump out an army if they see you try to attack or harass. Meanwhile you can't really FE safely due to the danger of mass ling/baneling bust on a natural that has 2 entrances.
LT, Kulas Ravine, and Incineration Zone all seem to be fairly good T maps though. And the ones I didn't mention aren't terrible but don't seem to favor either race imo.
Blistering Sands and Desert Oasis should be removed from map pools for events and tournaments imo.
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Scrap Station
Terran has an advantage here with the island where a planetary fortress and turrets can get setup really well-defended.
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Still waiting on Replays for those that can get their way through replays better than I can, both because they know where to find good replays, and have faster computers than mine to actually watch them.
And remember, maps can give advantages to more than 1 race. Kulas can be both Terran and Protoss favored.
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On May 13 2010 13:08 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote:
Still waiting on Replays for those that can get their way through replays better than I can, both because they know where to find good replays, and have faster computers than mine to actually watch them.
And remember, maps can give advantages to more than 1 race. Kulas can be both Terran and Protoss favored.
I'm no pro, however I do have a replay of me taking advantage of the afforementioned "seige tank V main mineral line on DO" which I'll post once I get home.
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EPT
