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Every Friday night my Starcraft friends and I, as hard as that is to believe that a Starcraft player would have friends, sit around and talk about Starcraft 2 issues and analyze the changes made from Starcraft to Starcraft 2.
This change in particular is one we have been unable to figure out. The best we can think of is Blizzard just assumed on their own that even though Broodwar is the most balanced game in the given RTS world to date, overlords being able to detect is just imbalanced.
Would others agree that overlords detecting in Broodwar is imbalanced? If so, if blizzard patched Broodwar today and made detection on overlords an upgrade would it balance Broodwar even more?
I am writing this to simply get the opinions of those better and smarter than we are when it comes to Starcraft 2 mechanics. The overseer seems like an expensive target and we have a hard time figuring out why Blizzard made this change.
Your opinions matter to me and I appreciate them. Thank you !
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I'm not sure why they made the change; now, they're just floating supply depots, annoying as hell.
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Comparing one detail from BW to the same detail in SC2 is obviously not a good way to determine if the games are balanced.
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I think that Ovies should be detectors again since there is No reason to get an overseer except for detection. Changeling isnt that good if youre playing against someone who is very focused... I wouldnt mind it if the Overseer had something more useful than just detection though couse at the moment I never make an overseer except for when I know that I need detection while the other races have Observers for Scouting also and scans can be used for MULEs instead.
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I think i general detection is less obtainable for all races. It's hard to argue this case for Toss, but Terrans now have to balance scanner sweeps with Mules - a careless player can be without any means besides for turrets.
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There are plenty of other reasons for wanting to change something than thinking it's imbalanced.
Dragoons, reavers, scouts, lurkers, scourges, vultures are out of the game. Do you think they were removed because someone thought they were imbalanced? Is 2D imbalanced?
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With this thought: BW is balanced => overlords can detect => Overlords with detect must be balanced
You are getting on the wrong lane, since its total different game. I like it that zerg has no detection available everywhere without making a decision and investment. Since more strategy becomes viable, DT´s and cloaked bashees/ghost are a serious thread which is nice.
The more strategys and units become viable in every matchup, the better it is to express ureself through the game.
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Overlords used to be flying detectors, dropships and supply depots all at the same time. This was okay since the threat of cloaked units was very high in the form of rather cheap and easy to build dts. Now this has changed in sc2. DTs cost a shitton and take an own tech tree. For them to be of any use, detection has to cost sth.
In bw, dts could be used to harass the zergs expansions when zerg forgot to put an overlord there. If every overlord in sc2 could detect dts, with zerg having a must-have queen at every expo, they would be completely useless in that matchup.
Detection got harder to obtain for every race in sc2, while at the same time cloaked units are harder to build as well. It all makes sense to me.
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Then would you say it might be better implemented by making an upgrade at the lair? Allowing all overlords to detect?
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On May 09 2010 01:22 Mandalor wrote:
Overlords used to be flying detectors, dropships and supply depots all at the same time. This was okay since the threat of cloaked units was very high in the form of rather cheap and easy to build dts. Now this has changed in sc2. DTs cost a shitton and take an own tech tree. For them to be of any use, detection has to cost sth.
In bw, dts could be used to harass the zergs expansions when zerg forgot to put an overlord there. If every overlord in sc2 could detect dts, with zerg having a must-have queen at every expo, they would be completely useless in that matchup.
Detection got harder to obtain for every race in sc2, while at the same time cloaked units are harder to build as well. It all makes sense to me.
I couldn't agree with you more.
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I didnt spend:
150/50 for a ghost academy
150/150 for a ghost
150/150 for cloak
100/50 for a nuke
for you to be able to automatically detect my incoming nuclear strike. As a terran player, that is my argument of why overlords shouldn't have detection.
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On May 09 2010 01:34 DanceDance wrote:
I didnt spend:
150/50 for a ghost academy
150/150 for a ghost
150/150 for cloak
100/50 for a nuke
for you to be able to automatically detect my incoming nuclear strike. As a terran player, that is my argument of why overlords shouldn't have detection.
But nukes aren't new. They are actually easier to get in sc2 than sc1, wouldn't this make it even more of a reason for zerg lords to detect than before?
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More importantly, what is with this bizarre, outdated idea that SC players have to be waste-of-time nerds? Whatever your opinion of yourself may be, there are plennnnnty of us who are just plain cool people.
Moral: cool people can play games.
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On May 09 2010 01:37 Powda wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 01:34 DanceDance wrote:
I didnt spend:
150/50 for a ghost academy
150/150 for a ghost
150/150 for cloak
100/50 for a nuke
for you to be able to automatically detect my incoming nuclear strike. As a terran player, that is my argument of why overlords shouldn't have detection. But nukes aren't new. They are actually easier to get in sc2 than sc1, wouldn't this make it even more of a reason for zerg lords to detect than before?
Please read mandalor's post, it's pretty much exactly why I think they changed it.
On May 09 2010 01:22 Mandalor wrote:
Overlords used to be flying detectors, dropships and supply depots all at the same time. This was okay since the threat of cloaked units was very high in the form of rather cheap and easy to build dts. Now this has changed in sc2. DTs cost a shitton and take an own tech tree. For them to be of any use, detection has to cost sth.
In bw, dts could be used to harass the zergs expansions when zerg forgot to put an overlord there. If every overlord in sc2 could detect dts, with zerg having a must-have queen at every expo, they would be completely useless in that matchup.
Detection got harder to obtain for every race in sc2, while at the same time cloaked units are harder to build as well. It all makes sense to me.
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As many said, they are two different games. Detection on all overlords would not work in SC2 because of the way the tech trees and mechanics are.
Detection is now more costly for Terran with taking up a mule every time, and observers are more expensive, so Zergs also has to have a resource drain.
Also, like dancedance essentially said, if T puts a huge resource drain into a cloaked unit, having it countered by a 100 mineral unit that is prevalent everywhere on the map would be ridiculous. Same goes for a Protoss investing in DT tech in SC2. It takes much longer to get, and being insta-countered by 1 overlord would be shallow - for SC2 that is.
it was great in SC1, because the macro was different, and the game itself too.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 09 2010 01:37 Powda wrote:
But nukes aren't new. They are actually easier to get in sc2 than sc1, wouldn't this make it even more of a reason for zerg lords to detect than before?
Except nukes were also ridiculously underutilized in SC1. While overlord detection is balanced in SC1 in that it isn't overly powerful for zerg, it exerts some pressure on units for which cloaking is a core feature. If Blizzard wanted to make those specific units more useful (which, judging by the ability changes on the ghost, they most certainly did), then making detection harder to get is one way to do it.
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EPT
