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You may have noticed this in games you've played, especially those against terran. You give a move/a-move command to units and they begin to take an unusual path to the target location. In the case of a wall in, they just kind of wander around the cliff edge to the main of your opponent. The units know that the wall in is preventing entrance into the base, regardless of whether or not they've actually seen the wall in.
In the case where there are two entrances to your base (desert oasis/incineration zone natural), and you wall one off, the units will automatically go the other way around without ever seeing the wall. Meaning, the pathfinding AI knows exactly where every players buildings are as they are being built (unintentional maphacks). This is poor design, visual confirmation (as in the HUMAN player can actually see the opponents buildings) needs to be made first before the pathfinding knows to go around automatically.
Replay showing exactly what I mean:
http://www.mediafire.com/?cmwymu01yoc
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It's not really gamebreaking tbh..
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this man speaks truth. ive had this happen many times
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Netherlands859 Posts
ya, i have noticed that too today.
I was playing vs terran as zerg.
And i tried to move to his minerals. but somehow my units went for his rocks at the back of his base instead of the unseen wall-in. kinda free information, and a bug for sure.
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Yep, unintentional maphacks. I've found this to be quite obnoxious, when trying to scout and your scout just sits at the bottom of the ramp instead of actually running up to see what addon the rax has, etc.
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It's not obnoxious. When you know it exists you can adjust your actions.
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Yeah WHEN you know. Why doesnt he just fucking run up to the wall so you can know that you can know that it exists instead making me wonder if i mis clicked lol. I agree, they should map there travels based on your fog of war view, not the actual.
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On May 07 2010 02:17 Mothxal wrote:
It's not obnoxious. When you know it exists you can adjust your actions.
Why do we have to issue 2 commands to scout inside a base when we don't actually know if there's a wall-in? It makes no sense the unit would auto-guess to stop somewhere to the side.
This has other, more problematic ramifications with destructible rocks and "surprise" attacks.
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also if you use waypoints, he will plan his entire route based on when you first issue all the commands, not one at a time
for instance, i tell the scv to move to the back of my base, then outside my base, while my wall is up. after i issue command, i lower a supply depot. he will not recognize the supply depot is open and just run into the cliff, because there was no path outside my base when i issued the commands earlier
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What about when you lower a supply and try to go over it and your unit stops on it and you need to move it again.
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if it auto guesses and stops outside then you know there's a wall-in... or a fake wall-in
i don't think this is a big deal after thinking about the extra code which would need to be plonked into the game.
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This is a very obvious issue but tbh i dont really see a huge reason to change it. A minor inconvenience
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Germany2896 Posts
That's just a simple quantum mechanical effect.
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i think they should fix it. if u dont have vision of an event units shouldnt be aware of it, just like if u break down rocks or w/e i think its bullshit the units knows if there r rocks there or not while the human player cant see ...
maybe it can just keep walk as far as it gets before it spots the actual wallin
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This also happens in BW. Not much of an issue, except with destructible rocks/buildings.
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I don't like this either. It shouldn't be too hard to fix because all the required information already has to be there.
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I don't think pathing should be done this way, I've noticed this for a while too. The" improvement" in pathfinding causes a little bit of annoyances, such as in BW, when u maynard your scvs before u lift your rax on your wall off, you can open it just in time to let the scv go through. In SC2, they would get stuck at a cliff if u hide your depots AFTER u send them over to natural. I think that this last path improved it a little bit but I'm not sure since I haven't played much since the patch.
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I want to inform you that they dont just "wander around the edge of the base" when they can't enter because of a wall.
They go directly to the closest possible point from the point your sent them to.
so thats pretty logical.
However i agree that should only happen if you scouted the wall, but not game-breaking.
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Netherlands859 Posts
pathfinding should work on the things you know....
no other option
its most fair
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On May 07 2010 02:32 MasterOfChaos wrote:
That's just a simple quantum mechanical effect.
Schrodinger's wall-in?!
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EPT
