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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On May 06 2010 23:16 Ftrunkz wrote:
I dont think you realize how much having forcefields have that low hp would utterly ruin PvP... Warpgate all-ins would suddenly be near unstoppable, and every game would be sentry zealot vs sentry zealot, which tbh are the most retarded fights in the universe.
Isn't PvP already like that?  Recent DeMuslim vs Nazgul games are a good example
I think the problem with forcefields is that you cannot counter them with a regular ground army.
Protoss essentially has a way to shape terrain to his advantage and there is little their opponent can do about that. More that that, forcefields push units around allowing to easily separate armies - this way it behaves like stasis field, the ultimate PvT spell in Brood War, only it is available almost immediately.
People are trying different ways of dealing with that. For example Dimaga tried tunneling roaches in the last Zotac final. I have also seen interesting dropship-heavy Terran plays in the Russian national team qualifiers. However those things come at a cost of having less fighting units than you would like against toss. Upgrades for roaches are expensive and take a lot of time to get, and medivacs don't add DPS that is desperately needed to kill off all that warp-gate stuff.
Getting forcefields, however, does not incur any penalties like that. Sentries have good resource synergy with zealots so it is easy to produce a huge army out of one base. Sentries are also good DPSers.
That said, I would hate to see the sentry overnerfed because it is a good, unique unit that produces a lot of great micro-intensive moments, so in my opinion destructible forcefields is the way to go. Ability remains powerful, but not frustratingly uncounterable.
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On May 07 2010 00:58 Random() wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 23:16 Ftrunkz wrote:
I dont think you realize how much having forcefields have that low hp would utterly ruin PvP... Warpgate all-ins would suddenly be near unstoppable, and every game would be sentry zealot vs sentry zealot, which tbh are the most retarded fights in the universe.
Isn't PvP already like that? Recent DeMuslim vs Nazgul games are a good example
I assume they just wanted a fast game. The steppes game could have gone much diffirently. 3 gate robo to colossus would have beaten that zealot/sentry mass with ease. He would have had to fight at his ramp a while (or just block it completely), but the fast colossus tends to win back last ground.
I don't think we should care about the PvP rammifications though. PvP is going to at least be balanced, if not annoying. What this will break is ZvP. No more ramp blocking, no more teching, no more FE. I really have no idea how ZvP would work if a couple roaches or lings could break an FF in seconds.
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On May 07 2010 01:18 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:58 Random() wrote:On May 06 2010 23:16 Ftrunkz wrote:
I dont think you realize how much having forcefields have that low hp would utterly ruin PvP... Warpgate all-ins would suddenly be near unstoppable, and every game would be sentry zealot vs sentry zealot, which tbh are the most retarded fights in the universe.
Isn't PvP already like that? Recent DeMuslim vs Nazgul games are a good example I assume they just wanted a fast game. The steppes game could have gone much diffirently. 3 gate robo to colossus would have beaten that zealot/sentry mass with ease. He would have had to fight at his ramp a while (or just block it completely), but the fast colossus tends to win back last ground. I don't think we should care about the PvP rammifications though. PvP is going to at least be balanced, if not annoying. What this will break is ZvP. No more ramp blocking, no more teching, no more FE. I really have no idea how ZvP would work if a couple roaches or lings could break an FF in seconds.
Oh no! You'd actually have to worry about zerg ground again and not just spam snorefield hiding behind your ramp while you get lolrays. So sad!
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On May 06 2010 21:06 Dionyseus wrote:
It now says they will be releasing a service update (patch) soon on the login screen, north american server.
"service update" doesn't mean "patch". It says they're doing service updates every time they have any form of maintenance on the servers, not just for resets and patches.
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On May 07 2010 01:21 Lollersauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:18 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:On May 07 2010 00:58 Random() wrote:On May 06 2010 23:16 Ftrunkz wrote:
I dont think you realize how much having forcefields have that low hp would utterly ruin PvP... Warpgate all-ins would suddenly be near unstoppable, and every game would be sentry zealot vs sentry zealot, which tbh are the most retarded fights in the universe.
Isn't PvP already like that? Recent DeMuslim vs Nazgul games are a good example I assume they just wanted a fast game. The steppes game could have gone much diffirently. 3 gate robo to colossus would have beaten that zealot/sentry mass with ease. He would have had to fight at his ramp a while (or just block it completely), but the fast colossus tends to win back last ground. I don't think we should care about the PvP rammifications though. PvP is going to at least be balanced, if not annoying. What this will break is ZvP. No more ramp blocking, no more teching, no more FE. I really have no idea how ZvP would work if a couple roaches or lings could break an FF in seconds. Oh no! You'd actually have to worry about zerg ground again and not just spam snorefield hiding behind your ramp while you get lolrays. So sad!
Uh yea. The match-up is balanced right now.... actually. So, what do you want that rediculous advantage for?
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my only desire right now is that the upcoming patch will fix my lag issue. i cant play at all without heavy lag or even getting dropped after a couple of minits. this is so frustrating. tried everything, and the only thing i achieved is that now i even have serious lag when i play against ai O_O
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On May 07 2010 01:22 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:21 Lollersauce wrote:
Oh no! You'd actually have to worry about zerg ground again and not just spam snorefield hiding behind your ramp while you get lolrays. So sad! Uh yea. The match-up is balanced right now.... actually. So, what do you want that rediculous advantage for?
I'm pretty sure it's also balanced with a slight nerf to FF.
You'll just have to make a few more combat units instead of having such an easymode time completely blocking your ramps with indestructible terrain.
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On May 06 2010 18:04 DminusTerran wrote:
So basically the only thing that would break stacked rocks would be siege tanks or colossi which is kinda dumb :\.
WTF?
Terran = Hellion, Siege Tank
Zerg = Baneling, Ultralisk
Protoss = Colossus, Archon
Bold: Underused units.
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On May 06 2010 23:52 bjwithbraces wrote:Then there's a more serious problem.
Not necessarily. Protoss having to make use of their special stuff in order to stand a chance comes from starcraft 1..
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they should patch at least to fix the replay bug!
i don't care if they have to reset accs, this bug is soooooo annoying
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On May 07 2010 01:27 Lollersauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:22 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:On May 07 2010 01:21 Lollersauce wrote:
Oh no! You'd actually have to worry about zerg ground again and not just spam snorefield hiding behind your ramp while you get lolrays. So sad! Uh yea. The match-up is balanced right now.... actually. So, what do you want that rediculous advantage for? I'm pretty sure it's also balanced with a slight nerf to FF. You'll just have to make a few more combat units instead of having such an easymode time completely blocking your ramps with indestructible terrain.
I'm pretty sure it's just balanced.. as it is.
What makes you think it's easymode for toss against an equally capable zerg opponent? Have you ever watched machine, sheth, darkalbino, or any of the korean zerg?
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Not every ability needs to be counterable. I think it's a very bad idea to try to balance units vs units and not match-ups vs match-ups. Maybe forcefields are something that can be extremely powerful in some cases and win you the game, but the enemy has to adapt to it and try to work around it. This kind of gameflow was in broodwar all the time in many match-ups. One race is able to beat another race at certain points in the game and to circumvent that they expand like crazy, or harrass, or defend and extend the game etcetera. An ability like forcefield is fun to use and pretty cool and you shouldn't try to balance the ability. Let it be broken and apply other changes such as nerfing sentries damage or buildtime so that it carries more of an opportunity cost. This might seem like a bandaid, but it's very common when balancing and I don't really know if that makes a bad game.
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On May 07 2010 01:34 Mothxal wrote:
One race is able to beat another race at certain points in the game and to circumvent that they expand like crazy, or harrass, or defend and extend the game etcetera.
FF is t1.5, 50 mana, on a gateway unit.
lol
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You honestly think without FF spam that roach army wouldn't have rolled his stalkers?
Or are zealots supposed to tank the roaches? Give me a break man. That was a perfect example of why FF needs to be what it is.
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On May 07 2010 01:43 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:
You honestly think without FF spam that roach army wouldn't have rolled his stalkers?
Or are zealots supposed to tank the roaches? Give me a break man. That was a perfect example of why FF needs to be what it is.
I think without FF toss mightve had other units, and not necessarily stalkers.
The point here is toss is able to get away with murder, aka mediocre play, because he can just spam the shit out of forcefield to split armies in 2 or 3, every damn encounter.
I mean look at the effort ZpuX put into positioning, creep etc, and then look at what it takes for toss to negate that. LOLSPAMFFEVERYWHERE.
Yeah, ok. Not interesting even from a spectator standpoint.
Do consider that Blistering Sands is a pretty open map also... it's usually worse.
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On May 07 2010 01:31 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:27 Lollersauce wrote:On May 07 2010 01:22 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:On May 07 2010 01:21 Lollersauce wrote:
Oh no! You'd actually have to worry about zerg ground again and not just spam snorefield hiding behind your ramp while you get lolrays. So sad! Uh yea. The match-up is balanced right now.... actually. So, what do you want that rediculous advantage for? I'm pretty sure it's also balanced with a slight nerf to FF. You'll just have to make a few more combat units instead of having such an easymode time completely blocking your ramps with indestructible terrain. I'm pretty sure it's just balanced.. as it is. What makes you think it's easymode for toss against an equally capable zerg opponent? Have you ever watched machine, sheth, darkalbino, or any of the korean zerg?
can u show me some of these reps? i never found korean zerg reps where they are defending against a 4/5 warpgate push....
imo forcefield or the dmg of the sentry should be nerfed but i dont like the idea of a destructible forcefield...I think it would be great if the forcefields just cant push away units anymore...By this u would need good reactions and more skill to use them and if u use them correctly they are still gamebreaking
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I'd really love a channeled FF from the sentries, much better imo
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On May 07 2010 01:36 Lollersauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:34 Mothxal wrote:
One race is able to beat another race at certain points in the game and to circumvent that they expand like crazy, or harrass, or defend and extend the game etcetera. FF is t1.5, 50 mana, on a gateway unit. lol
It's also 100 gas at t1.5. lol that.
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On May 07 2010 01:18 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:
I really have no idea how ZvP would work if a couple roaches or lings could break an FF in seconds.
I would give it 200-300 HP. Not something a couple of roaches or lings could break in seconds, but also not something that you can use to block a huge army forever.
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EPT
