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Sweden33691 Posts
Note: I completely forgot to make an April edition of this.
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Q: What is this thread?
A: General purpose, SC2 discussion thread.
Q: What should I be posting about?
A: Basically, anything you want to talk about but aren't sure if it warrants a topic of its own. Heard a rumour you want to share? A new video? A question you are sure is super common but can't find the answer to via searching? A brilliant new idea that you want to vet, to make sure it's really as brilliant as you think it is?
This is the place.
Note:
Posting standards will not be as high as if you were to make a new thread, but pointless spam will still not be tolerated. I have seen threads like these work out alright on other sites (for other games) so I figured, why not give it a shot? It's possible there's not really enough content for something like this to exist at this point in time, but no harm then, it will just die on its own.
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Anyone know an alternative program to VHS Scr Cap program that u use together with FME to stream? Mine is acting weird :x
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Hey, I've lurked these forums a decent amount but I've finally joined now that I have a beta key and can actually play the game. I've watched TONS of games of SC2 on Husky and HDs youtube channels and I've watched a lot of live streams here. Anyway, I am searching for kind of a basic guide to playing zerg. Last night was my first time playing the beta and I'm starting to get the hang of it but I don't really know specific build orders and things like how to effectively hotkey queens/hatches.
I got placed into gold after my placement matches. Wow, so people are really bad. One game I was messing around with terran and just teched straight to BCs and won haha.
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On May 02 2010 00:59 Uhh Negative wrote:
Hey, I've lurked these forums a decent amount but I've finally joined now that I have a beta key and can actually play the game. I've watched TONS of games of SC2 on Husky and HDs youtube channels and I've watched a lot of live streams here. Anyway, I am searching for kind of a basic guide to playing zerg. Last night was my first time playing the beta and I'm starting to get the hang of it but I don't really know specific build orders and things like how to effectively hotkey queens/hatches.
I got placed into gold after my placement matches. Wow, so people are really bad. One game I was messing around with terran and just teched straight to BCs and won haha.
There's an active zerg build order thread in the strategy section and you can search for the hotkey thread.
The general consensus seems to be to hotkey all your hatcheries on one key and then hotkey each of your queens individually.
So if 4 is hatcheries, you can use 4 to build and rally your units while being away from your base and you can use 5 to center on your queen and larva the hatchery, 6 to center on your expo queen and larva that hatchery...
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Is there a way to disable those 'hotkeys tabs' in the lower part of the screen? I find myself switching hotkeys groups accidentally by clicking them a lot...
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Tanks should be changed from 150/125/3 to 175/100/3. If you disagree, admit what race you main.
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I am very much for a nerf of any kind on the Force Fields. The reasons are obvious.
[quote=Chill, on djwheat's Weapon of Choice show when I called in to ask about this stuff after the ZOTAC Cup where the Z was holed up in his base for a good 5 minutes, to watch his natural get raped by a few stalkers — to be fair, the Z won the match because of macro and the Nydus Worm that he made later on was like 5-minutes into the lock-in and required a lot of time to transition to it... something that I don't think should be necessary against such a Tier 1 tactic]
NONSENSE! YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY THAT THE MECHANIC EVEN EXISTS IN THIS WONDERFUL GAME!
[/quote]
I am actually very happy that the mechanic exists in the game — the Protoss have a lot of sneaky tactics compared to T and Z in my opinion and I am all for stuff like that — but I think that the things that are necessary in order to circumvent this Tier 1 tactic of Force Field "lock ins" (particularly at the ramps) take far too much time to overcome. Furthermore, I think that what is necessary to overcome these things requires you to reach too far beyond Tier 1 on your own side. I don't think that makes it fair.
I think that its completely fine for a higher Tier to have a lower Tier weakness, but when a lower Tier has a tactic that requires a higher Tier in order to overcome it... I think that it at the very least borders on imba.
Ideas that I've heard talked about and of which I approve:
- Making the area of the Force Field one hex larger so that it cannot sit on a ramp
- Making the area of the Force Field one hex smaller so that it takes 2 to completely lock a ramp
- Making the Force Fields last for a shorter amount of time, so that it takes more attention for a player to continuously lock someone inside an area.
- Making the Force Fields destructible
- Making the Force Fields require more energy, so that lock ins are more rare
- Making the Force Fields have a cooldown (this idea here is the one I support the least, but its a solution)
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On May 02 2010 01:02 Vexx wrote:
There's an active zerg build order thread in the strategy section and you can search for the hotkey thread.
The general consensus seems to be to hotkey all your hatcheries on one key and then hotkey each of your queens individually.
So if 4 is hatcheries, you can use 4 to build and rally your units while being away from your base and you can use 5 to center on your queen and larva the hatchery, 6 to center on your expo queen and larva that hatchery...
Yeah I toyed around with hotkeying like that yesterday but I didn't know it was the general consensus for the best way. Thanks!
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I would gladly take a Psi Storm radius buff for a damage nerf. I feel like its role overlaps too much with the Colossus right now. In SC1 you could do effective worker raiding with it, but the radius is so pitiful now that you only hit 3-4 SCVs and probably won't even kill them.
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Would it be possible to make the computer execute a specific build order to practice against? Like maybe I could play a game and then save that to a file and I could play against myself to experiment against certain bo's?
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On May 03 2010 07:08 guitarizt wrote:
Would it be possible to make the computer execute a specific build order to practice against? Like maybe I could play a game and then save that to a file and I could play against myself to experiment against certain bo's?
If you are handy with the map editor this wouldn't be to hard to construct, plus you would have the added benefit of everything being executed perfectly and exact.
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My current ZvT strategy is where my goal is to fast expand and use speedlings early to stop hellions then transition into muta/infestor with lings. My problem is whether to get muta or infestors first. I generally try and scout to see if he is going heavy mech or heavy infantry and decide from there but now im thinking its probably best to go straight muta in-case they go starport and to abuse the poor mobility of most terran unit compositions?
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On May 02 2010 01:24 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 01:02 Vexx wrote:
There's an active zerg build order thread in the strategy section and you can search for the hotkey thread.
The general consensus seems to be to hotkey all your hatcheries on one key and then hotkey each of your queens individually.
So if 4 is hatcheries, you can use 4 to build and rally your units while being away from your base and you can use 5 to center on your queen and larva the hatchery, 6 to center on your expo queen and larva that hatchery... Yeah I toyed around with hotkeying like that yesterday but I didn't know it was the general consensus for the best way. Thanks!
I've been trying something else:
Hatcheries on 6, queens on 5. Bind main at Ctrl+F5, nat at ctrl+F6, etc etc.
What u do to inject is:
5, F5, V, F6, V, F7, V
What do u think about this?
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On May 02 2010 01:20 Crisium wrote:
Tanks should be changed from 150/125/3 to 175/100/3. If you disagree, admit what race you main.
i agree on gas atleast..idk why youd raise the cost mineral wise though.
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I'm relatively new to the beta, so this is mostly conjecture on my behalf so I'd like someone to set me straight if I'm off the ball.
Terran tier 1: Marine = anti air
Protoss tier 1 (or 1.5? Do decimal tiers count?): Stalker/sentry = anti air
Zerg tier 1: Roaches = ...whoops?
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On May 03 2010 08:00 BabaBlackSheep wrote:
I'm relatively new to the beta, so this is mostly conjecture on my behalf so I'd like someone to set me straight if I'm off the ball.
Terran tier 1: Marine = anti air
Protoss tier 1 (or 1.5? Do decimal tiers count?): Stalker/sentry = anti air
Zerg tier 1: Roaches = ...whoops?
Zerg gets hydras which by themselves are pretty strong, and most of the time you go lair tech with your first 100 gas anyway so you'll have hydras out in plenty of time to stop them(unless going for a mass baneling/roach allin or something)
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What's peoples opinions on the Nydus Worm? I can't get enough of it, when you get your natural and double up the gas and start saturating the minerals you'll have plenty of money to spend on one measly building that gives such a tactical advantage. Think about it from the enemies point of view, in two big scenarios. You do you first big push, and while you're doing that an overlord on the side of his base allows a Nydus worm up, and 16 speedlings burst out of it and start ravaging his main. Then, what does he think? He knows you got a worm, and you can potentially put one ANYWHERE on the map. Heck, you can use a speed overlord, fly into the main, start a nydus and even if your Ovie dies the Nydus will finish unless it's killed as normal. And that will a significant psycological advantage, as well as one of two scenarios again:
1) He overloads on static defense and turtles up, allowing you to expand and out macro him
2) He gets no defense, and you continue to harass him into submission
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On May 03 2010 08:15 Fruscainte wrote:
What's peoples opinions on the Nydus Worm? I can't get enough of it, when you get your natural and double up the gas and start saturating the minerals you'll have plenty of money to spend on one measly building that gives such a tactical advantage. Think about it from the enemies point of view, in two big scenarios. You do you first big push, and while you're doing that an overlord on the side of his base allows a Nydus worm up, and 16 speedlings burst out of it and start ravaging his main. Then, what does he think? He knows you got a worm, and you can potentially put one ANYWHERE on the map. Heck, you can use a speed overlord, fly into the main, start a nydus and even if your Ovie dies the Nydus will finish unless it's killed as normal. And that will a significant psycological advantage, as well as one of two scenarios again:
1) He overloads on static defense and turtles up, allowing you to expand and out macro him
2) He gets no defense, and you continue to harass him into submission
My ideas for the nydus worm (initially from how I thought it worked) would be for it to only be placeable on creep. This would mean that you wouldn't need to just get overlord sight, but you'd need to dart in there and shit some creep. Not saying nydus's really need a nerf, but thought that would be a fun way to use the overlord shitting mechanic more. It would fit nicely with the cheap overlord speed and ofc lair for creep shitting and nydus tech all works together well.
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On May 03 2010 07:34 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2010 07:08 guitarizt wrote:
Would it be possible to make the computer execute a specific build order to practice against? Like maybe I could play a game and then save that to a file and I could play against myself to experiment against certain bo's? If you are handy with the map editor this wouldn't be to hard to construct, plus you would have the added benefit of everything being executed perfectly and exact.
I am not familiar with the new map editor, only SC1's, but it it would be extremely helpful if a build order could be programmed in an easy fashion like a decision graph rather than via a bunch of triggers. The decision graph in this case would be for the early game phase of course with leave nodes like 'continue with computer AI pattern X'. Perhaps specific triggers could be implemented with the help of such decision graphs too if you want more control over counter choices. Such as a trigger that is programmed to activate if an expand is detected before the four minute mark, a decision graph becomes active. The decision graph will start at a test node counting offense points. If 10 supply of offensive units or more is detected at this point, follow up with building 4 supply defensive units and go expand. If less than 10 supply of offensive units are scouted, initialize 'computer AI pattern bunker rush' or such. Just as an example here. Implementing build orders in a simplified way such as this would be awesome imo.
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On May 03 2010 08:09 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2010 08:00 BabaBlackSheep wrote:
I'm relatively new to the beta, so this is mostly conjecture on my behalf so I'd like someone to set me straight if I'm off the ball.
Terran tier 1: Marine = anti air
Protoss tier 1 (or 1.5? Do decimal tiers count?): Stalker/sentry = anti air
Zerg tier 1: Roaches = ...whoops? Zerg gets hydras which by themselves are pretty strong, and most of the time you go lair tech with your first 100 gas anyway so you'll have hydras out in plenty of time to stop them(unless going for a mass baneling/roach allin or something)
No problem with that, I suppose. I just feel like in sc2 units are designed with a specific purpose whereas in sc1 they're designed with general purposes. Allow me to demonstrate with sc1:
zling=marine=zealot -> basic ground troops. Zling = 2 for 50 to give zerg that swarm feel. Zealot = 100 but also is the sturdiest of the lot. Marine = 50 and is basically a guy with a gun, nothing particularly fancy for a starting unit..
Hydralisk=Dragoon=Firebat -> supplements basic ground troops, and Z and P now get anti air/range as well. Terran gets a unit that can more effectively repel ground units...with fire!
Then you get to mechanize with those cool "advanced" units from advanced structures, or in Zerg's case just go air. The game opens up as players are now generally offered "skills" to use, like cloak, parasite, sci-storm. It's up to the player's discretion as to what they will pair those skills with. When Brood War finally came out it added units with intended purposes to supplement each race: Lurker = Zerg answer to ground armies (because the other races had cool bros like tanks and reavers). Medic = heal and blind, because other races had regenerative abilities for all of their units, not just mech. Corsair = Protoss' answer for an air unit that doesn't require an incredible investment, because Terran had decently cheap wraiths, and Mutas at 100/100 were also cheap relatively. I suppose the Devourer was thrown in to be fair and give Zerg an extra air unit like the other races.
Now in SC2 you have your basic ground units. Then with Terran you get an ad hoc unit to harass, and a buff bro. With Zerg you get mini-bombs and (surprise) buff bros because mini-bombs and Zerglings are relatively temporal. Then with Protoss you get early spells, shields from buff bros (who are incidentally ranged). Only the Stalker feels like it fits a more general role by the time you get it.
So if you're able to get past my colloquialisms, you see that I'm getting too large of a sense of predetermination for units in Starcraft 2. It's hardly to say that units with predetermined objectives cannot also fulfill other rolls, and expanded rolls are great because they add dynamics to make Starcraft something beyond RTS Rock Paper Scissors, which Starcraft 2 is not. But I can't shake the feeling that the development of SC2 had to evolve from predetermined Rock Paper Scissors whereas Starcraft 1 was built from the ground up.
Maybe that was its fate as a sequel. It's not like SC2 devs could have said "Okay, let's make the warrior a Zerg can produce first a mash-up of a Zergling and a Hydralisk, then call it a Roach." From the mere fact that Blizzard have something upon which to base their work means that a role has been identified for some of their units. Or maybe I should just shut up and accept SC2, because it's already a better RTS than most others.
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