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Now , I am not meaning in the way you can artificially increase your APM where you can just spam click, but I am meaning in the way that it is your true APM.
Currently I sit around 60-70 APM and I feel that is very poor (I am like a High Gold but I dont think I am that great at all). I want to get into the habit of increasing my APM so that I am more active and aware of my surrondings, I feel APM is one of themost important skills to have in this game alongside a tactical knowledge.
I would just appreciate any tips/tricks/pointers that I could use, alot of the time I am just sitting around and losing my concentration in the game, thus losing alot due to this. I feel by increasing my APM my micro/macro is going to get better, I just want to keep myself on a high APM constantly, I was hoping over time I would gradually increase but I am not it seems -_-
Its really frustrating for me because I got 200+ APM in HoN where I was definately top tier (I know they are differnet games but I know I can have high APM), and it really helped me to keep focused and on my toes, but for some reason playing this game I am just not keeping active and losing concentration.
I just feel my reactions etc are slower then what they can be, I feel very sluggish playing this game.
I am having trouble like putting down the point I want but I hope you understand.
Thanks guys and I really love this forum, its helped me improve.
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I think you value APM too much.
If you are more accurate, you need less clics.
Maybe that would help you.
Macroing is APM demanding but not THAT much.
Most of those who got 100+APM clic more than necessary.
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The best way to increase APM is just to practice a lot.
Concentrate hard on multitasking in your games - the more effectively you can macro, micro and multitask (ie, the better you are...) the higher your apm will be.
You don't increase APM to get better, getting better increases your APM, right?
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I'm in the same boat. My highest apm in sc2 so far was around 80 avg. I try to do stuff as fast as possible but still can't reach 100 avg. I guess I just need to play more games.
The good news is, I've actually won games where my opponent has twice my apm!
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60-70 APM can easily bring you up to mid level platinum. If you are only gold, then APM is not your problem, and you should not worry about it.
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60-70 apm for platinum >.<
Bring skill back to SC plz!
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if you have the potential (as seen in your HoN games) to have high APM, then its only the matter of practicing enough so that the keyboard shortcuts become second nature to you.. the beta has only been out for a couple of months.. while others are naturally tuned b/c of war3 and sc1, it probably takes dota/HoN players who've never micro'd more than 5 units before (because you can summon multiple unist in HoN/dota) to be disoriented, confused and find themselves placed in leagues such as copper bronze or maybe silver if they fluke a placement match...
in all seriousness.. if you start spamming your shotcuts and waste your apm this will help the process a bit :D
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Don't worry too much about your apm, the more you will play the more it will increas naturally, but it will reach a soft ceilling. (Around 120apm for me). At your point I'd really focus on the macro, chances are you may have some 1k minerals sometimes. Build more production building, expand more, macro more. This is what really helped me personnally.
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Actually, the way I got my apm up back in the day was to simply set an apm goal like, say 160 and then try to reach that no matter what. This meant that I did a lot of useless spam, and yes it was detrimental to my game, but after about just 10 or so games I could already feel I was getting more used to operating at a higher pace. Just try to push yourself a little bit every game, even if it means doing some unnecessary spam, and you'll soon be making progress.
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the apm recording in hon and sc2 are both flawed.
for example, in hon (i assume you're talking about 200 apm with chen/ophelia) the game records 1 action per unit that is selected. i.e 2 units 1 click is 2 actions, 3 units with 1 click is 3 actions etc.
in addition to that, the time in "faster" is multiplied by 38.25% or something like that. so 60-70 is roughly somewhere around 80-95ish.
anyway, you're probably around the same apm in both games due to the games bad apm counting
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Focus on speed. The best way to do this is to watch an FPVOD/Stream of a fast player and then play games keeping speed in mind. You will naturally move faster and obviously more speed-->more effective apm.
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high apm in hon is like...not necessary?! thats just mass clicking..
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haha HoN apm means nothing
apm in general is of course a bad way to determine skill, but typically as skill rises so does apm. no point spamming clicks and shit if ur not actually DOING anything, u can watch tons of plat/gold replays where zerg players have 150+ apm yet their queens are sitting on a ridiculous 150+ energy most of the game T_T
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To wrags, in HoN i am not talking about Chen and I am aware, when I used a single hero I rarely used hold posistion prefering to constantly click and spam to dance and keep on the move keeping yourself alert.
And I was thinking to maybe play against the comp and just practise on macro/microing, just seeing what I can do, because when I find myself on 3 bases I just feel overwhelmed and fall quickly behind...
I want a better APM because I dont feel confident doing stuff such as thors drops because I know I will fall behind, even a simple Zealot rush/harass results in me being miles behind
and to those mocking HoN apm means nothing it does, rarely do the top players have low APM because they are constantly moving, a hero who is sitting still is easier to harass and land spells such as pyros stun. I stomp noobs because they are so easy to predict
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My only suggestion is to limit the amount of time you spend on a single screen. Limit yourself to only 2-3 second per screen before jumping away to somewhere else. This raises your APM and also helps you with multitasking.
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there is good apm and bad apm, don't try to increase your apm, just play a lot and you should get more accurate in time, watch livestreams of people like orb and nony and try to play like them. I have 140ish peaking at 170ish in games, none of which is spam, except at the start where all I have are 6 scvs.
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apm in hon is bs because you pretty much control 1 unit the whole time. That's why the 200+ you get doesn't mean anything because Starcraft requires you to manage a shit ton of things all at once.
But yeah once you start getting used to everything you'll get faster its just a matter of practice.
edit:
On April 29 2010 06:55 ChimpyNuts wrote:
To wrags, in HoN i am not talking about Chen and I am aware, when I used a single hero I rarely used hold posistion prefering to constantly click and spam to dance and keep on the move keeping yourself alert.
And I was thinking to maybe play against the comp and just practise on macro/microing, just seeing what I can do, because when I find myself on 3 bases I just feel overwhelmed and fall quickly behind...
I want a better APM because I dont feel confident doing stuff such as thors drops because I know I will fall behind, even a simple Zealot rush/harass results in me being miles behind
and to those mocking HoN apm means nothing it does, rarely do the top players have low APM because they are constantly moving, a hero who is sitting still is easier to harass and land spells such as pyros stun. I stomp noobs because they are so easy to predict
You should practice new techniques/maneuvers (thor drop as you mentioned) anyway even if you know you'll fall behind. Eventually you'll get used to it and manage to incorporate it into your normal actions. Practice makes perfect.
And your last bit still doesn't make it any better, obv. your not sitting there but your still only controlling one unit. In HoN your dodging stuff (pyro stun, arrow, rockets) with one guy (your hero) while in starcraft your dodging things (multiple psi storms, HS missiles, etc.) with your entire army (big blob of shit) WHILE macroing units and managing a bunch of other stuff like number of production buildings/upgrades/worker transfer/supply count/ scouting/macro mechanics (chrono, spawn larva, mules).
Difference is just too big for it to even compare
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On April 29 2010 06:51 selboN wrote:
60-70 apm for platinum >.<
Bring skill back to SC plz!
I dont think you realise how bad most people are at RTS games.
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I am a very nervous player, sometimes I stream with a hundred or so, sometimes less people, than play in craft cup weekly eu and us, the zotac beginning pregrid rounds, and my APM will jump up and down.
I think a real measurement is you playing comfortably, knowing you are under control, and really taking a lease of your effective APM.
As your surrounding awareness goes up, as well as your ability to adapt, you APM will sky rocket as you grow.
Don't value it so high that you mass click here and there. When you start learning to do things like defend a push and medivac drop at the same time, and see that you should be paying more attention in multiple places, maybe it's time to practice it and then you will see your APM plays a much bigger part into your skill level.
For the most part, it doesn't. Just hang back, learn the game, and enjoy the ride.
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And people please do not derail the thread about hon being crap for apm, I just raised it because I used it as an example for myself where I was able to keep myself focused and alert, wich is what I do not do in SC2
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I make do in SC2 with about 50 APM. Played SC1 at about 200-225, but SC2 only requires about like 50.
I don't feel like there's much need to be honest.
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Taiwan619 Posts
eh Nony did hit 200 in his hdh invitational series..
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Remember to multiply your SC2 apm by 1.3(roughly) to get the true apm.
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I'm sitting around 30-50 apm and still winning alot  ( Gold league )
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Trying to "improve your APM" is flawed thinking. That's like trying to improve your bowling game by putting as much speed behind the ball as you can. Sure the extra speed helps, but if you focus on knocking down the pins first, your speed will increase as you become more comfortable with your form.
Just get better at the game ... speed will come with time.
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One of the things I always notice watching a FPVOD of a pro player is that a high APM makes harassment + macro possible.
That's just simply something you can't do well with only 60 APM. It is a skill that needs improvement, but the only way you get there is with practice and constantly refining your technique. Pay close attention to the way you do things and look for holes and opportunities.
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You need to spam. If you want high actions you MUST spam. You MUST spam. It's not a bad thing. Don't feel bad about.
APM is not pointless, it does make you a better player if you're faster. Not directly, but trust me, it helps.
This is coming from someone that jumped from 200 to 370 apm in BW with 210 eapm. And my skill level skyrocketed in the month where I did that.
You should spam. It helps, so much. I only just got my key (yay btw) so I'll use BW as an example. Being able to macro 10 rax SK terran TvZ without needing to try to hard is awesome. Being able to follow 2 groups of vultures + dropships + macro and continue your build is so important. You just have to make fewer concessions if you're fast, since you're capable of doing so much more.
imo anyways.....
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Yup thats why I want to increase my APM , whenever I decide to say do something like Reaper harass or any form of harassment, I just know I am going to fall miserably far behind because I cannot keep up with macro and microing my units, its damn frustrating because I know most of the shortcuts and like I have a good knowledge on the game , its just things like this that hold me back , I dont feel confident doing any forms of harassment because even if itys off and that I should be ahead, I am not because I cannot multi task -_-
And I am glad that some people agree with me on APM being important because I know if I have higher APM I will just play generally better, instead of playing at grand dad speed
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Don't worry about APM at all. Some people make a ton of redundant/unecessary clicks. Many people also spam actions in the beginning of the game. At least 90% of the people I beat have higher average APM than me.
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Try being more active with your units like constantly moving them back and forth or cojstantly sending out units to scout expos and doing harassments whenever you can. Try to switch back and forth between your mains making sure you are constantly using your mules, queens or chrono boosts. And just like everyone has said having a high apm doesnt mean you are doing well. It depends alot on what you are doing.
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I don't know why people are hating on apm, it is essential. I don't know how this can be argued. There is as mentioned good and bad apm but only with regards to the current game I would urge a different perspective, someone who has very high apm might need to see it differently but for you I would say spam. (this is a long term view with the premise that you prefer personal development over a win right now or next game) Spam away, get as much repetition in as you can. What you are going to be accomplishing by this is establishing muscle memory and make yourself more effective. Once you are effective you need to be efficient. I am only diametrically separating them for theory sake of 'corse you have to develop them somewhat together but the point is spamming helps noobs. It's only once you find you have excess apm that you need to work on redirecting it to efficiency. You have to be able to function at that speed before you can learn to control your function at that speed imho. Macro typically has an effective apm ceiling so a large percentage of apm over 100 is going to be unit movement and spell casting etc so work on automating or dumbing down your macro to remote processes as much as possible for optimal results. (ie use hotkeys or control groups and locations as much as possible.
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Btw I really appreciate how fast people have answered on this thread, its really helpful,
and to make it clear I do not wish to artificially raise my APM , I want to raise it through playing and making me faster, not just spamming it pointlessly, if I spammed pointlessly I know I would have higher apm :p
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My APM is around mid 70's and I find I can either macro very well and not really harass or I can harass really well but my macro is gone. I say the optimal APM for the current game would be in the 130's - 180's. I can get 3000 apm if I spam the whole game and be like yeah, but I'd rather keep it simple and see my real apm.
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it's said over and over and over, and people hate to hear it, but faster APM comes from just straight up practice. One of the sessions that did the most for my overall multi-tasking/gameplay was when I was just focusing on one simple build order in BW (3 hatch spire 5 hatch hydra vs P) and doing it vs no opponenents (create a game, close the computer slot in the count-down, and hit continue playing once it says you've won.
What this did was ensured I didn't have to think about everything when I did it, it trained me to make things automatic. The point wasn't that I would be able to do this one BO without altering it, it was that dong that BO was so second nature, that I could concentrate my actual attention on other things.
Since then, I've been able to hop between bases/macro with a lot more automation, no matter what BO I use, this then transfered into SC2 very effectively.
People will say just straight up playing the game is the best at increasing your skill, and this probably works for a number of people, but I found for myself, being able to focus on one aspect of my play at a time allowed me to really refine that, and then incorporate it into my overall game, which helped me a lot more then trying to do it all better in each game.
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Yeah Kralic, I am in the exact same boat as you basically. and jabberwokie thats a really insightful post, I think I might just try some games against the comp just to raise my speed and transition it over into playing the game.
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Take a FRAPS of yourself playing a normal game. View the FRAPS and identify points where your play is the slowest. Figure out why your being slow at these points and resolve the issues. (Watching a battle? Misclick small units? Panic? Busy thinking not executing? Lack of muscle memory when doing a specific set of actions you do almost every game?)
e.g. When you jump into a fight, it should be ingrained in your soul to do something like "1A2E3T5SS6AAAAAtabDDDBSBS11" which would have your army attack moving with Stim + EMP, and then doing a ton of basic macro. You shouldn't really need to think much or at all about this sort of thing. If you have to think about mechanics, your going to have a much lower APM than you could have. I bet if u memorize a string of characters and actions like the one above, you could prob do it with a 300+ APM burst.
You can literally practice most of this stuff with an air-keyboard.
Also, at some point you will have trouble parsing the information quickly enough, so get used to quickly moving the camera a ton using ctrl groups so your brain gets used to only seeing images for a fraction of a second. (If you play with very low APM, watch an FPVOD of Bisu or Nada and you probably won't be able to follow the game at all because of this)
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Spam. Spam. Spam.
Trust this C- PGT player with 90-120 APM turned top platinum player with 100-150 SC2 APM.
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With 70 apm it's good enough that you can beat anyone in sc2 right now. I don't see someone needing more then 90 apm down the line. This is going by replays screwed up apm and not real.
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It sounds to me like your problem is not really Apm so much as your ability to divide attention between 10 different things ie. the multitasking. That will just come with practice and familiarity I don't think there is any way to quickly learn effective multitasking, you just have to work at it. Whenever i have a couple of spare moment I also play this webbrowser based game:
http://www.kongregate.com/games/IcyLime/multitask
It's incredibly simple but I've found it has worked wonders for teaching me to split my attention and keep track of at least 4 things running simultaneously. I'm only a copper lvl player but noticed a significant jump in my win rates after i started playing it in my spare time.
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Alright guys I will try practising spam and try and keep it in mind when I play, I been meaning to try it but I just forget and resort to clicking once a minute
That game sounds awsome I am gonna try it!
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Try doing what day[9] said to do. Just spam and get used to then game and move your army around. If you feel like you cant do anything build stuff and scout and keep the money low. If you spam you will find it easyer to go faster later. ;-D
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On April 29 2010 06:58 Joey.rumz wrote:
I am a very nervous player, sometimes I stream with a hundred or so, sometimes less people, than play in craft cup weekly eu and us, the zotac beginning pregrid rounds, and my APM will jump up and down.
I think a real measurement is you playing comfortably, knowing you are under control, and really taking a lease of your effective APM.
As your surrounding awareness goes up, as well as your ability to adapt, you APM will sky rocket as you grow.
Don't value it so high that you mass click here and there. When you start learning to do things like defend a push and medivac drop at the same time, and see that you should be paying more attention in multiple places, maybe it's time to practice it and then you will see your APM plays a much bigger part into your skill level.
For the most part, it doesn't. Just hang back, learn the game, and enjoy the ride.
I myself am a pretty nervous player. APM can mean how well one can multitask, but if you're comfortable and you don't panic when you're playing, you should be doing fine. Precision is more important, especially since SC2 doesn't require such high APM compared to its original self.
If you want to bring it higher, I think most people just spam a bunch of commands to keep their APM high. They probably do it so they can maintain a speed and be ready for when they actually do need to have high APM. You could try that maybe?
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Your apm will go up on its own as you play. Most of it is simply motor learning which just takes time and repetitions. The key though is to form consistent habits for hotkeys etc. so you dont even have to think about it. All praises to the great motor memory center in the brain!
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I see platinum players with 70 APM all the time, it's just a shame. Because of the mechanics of the game, APM isn't required to control units, patrol-attack or micro your mutas. So this game basically requires much less micro than BW, unless you're microing three dropships for harrass while macroing with the hotkeys.
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On April 29 2010 07:26 Zhou wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2010 06:58 Joey.rumz wrote:
I am a very nervous player, sometimes I stream with a hundred or so, sometimes less people, than play in craft cup weekly eu and us, the zotac beginning pregrid rounds, and my APM will jump up and down.
I think a real measurement is you playing comfortably, knowing you are under control, and really taking a lease of your effective APM.
As your surrounding awareness goes up, as well as your ability to adapt, you APM will sky rocket as you grow.
Don't value it so high that you mass click here and there. When you start learning to do things like defend a push and medivac drop at the same time, and see that you should be paying more attention in multiple places, maybe it's time to practice it and then you will see your APM plays a much bigger part into your skill level.
For the most part, it doesn't. Just hang back, learn the game, and enjoy the ride. I myself am a pretty nervous player. APM can mean how well one can multitask, but if you're comfortable and you don't panic when you're playing, you should be doing fine. Precision is more important, especially since SC2 doesn't require such high APM compared to its original self. If you want to bring it higher, I think most people just spam a bunch of commands to keep their APM high. They probably do it so they can maintain a speed and be ready for when they actually do need to have high APM. You could try that maybe?
Actually I also agree warming up hands in this case has been pretty instrumental and plus it seems to, at least personally, heighten awareness heading into a match.
Has the OP messed around with lassoing workings and pressing c for return cargo as often as he can while still being able to properly build his base?
Another big reason high apm and awareness with hotkeys and such is early game scouting. I find that if you just make a bunch of waypoints for your scout it sometimes takes a split second for him to turn here and there, and the best way is to manually build your base and manually move your scouting worker at the same time.
This will do 2 great things:
1) Prepare your hands for fast movement going into a battle where you will begin to feel comfortable and maintaining that highly valued APM number at a solid amount.
2) It teaches you to keep your scout alive as long as you can to gather as much data as possible about your opponent going into the mid to late portion of the early game stage, which can be extremely informational on how you plan to adapt to your opponents perceived strategy.
Try it against the 'Very Easy' computer if you are unsure of your capabilities, and take it to Ladder when you're comfortable. It's something (and probably the only thing) that can be practiced against that terrible AI.
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Just a tip if you are not doing anything with your army be cycling your production facilities making sure you are as close to 0 minerals/gas unless you are saving for some form of tech make sure you are always at 100% worker production even after saturation seeing as you can use the extras to maynard you're next expo.
Pre-queuing early isnt always a bad thing I usually queue my next set of units @~ 75%-80% completion
Normally just focusing on this I've been getting closer my aim of 110+ apm over 10+mins matches though when I spam hard at the start and keep doing the above constantly Ive been hitting the 150 mark in shorter games.
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Joey love that advise think I will try that, thats something I had huge trouble with was controlling the worker and building my base, so I just did the lazy way of waypointing.
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On April 29 2010 07:23 Treliant wrote:It sounds to me like your problem is not really Apm so much as your ability to divide attention between 10 different things ie. the multitasking. That will just come with practice and familiarity I don't think there is any way to quickly learn effective multitasking, you just have to work at it. Whenever i have a couple of spare moment I also play this webbrowser based game: http://www.kongregate.com/games/IcyLime/multitaskIt's incredibly simple but I've found it has worked wonders for teaching me to split my attention and keep track of at least 4 things running simultaneously. I'm only a copper lvl player but noticed a significant jump in my win rates after i started playing it in my spare time.
thanks, i was looking for a multitask minigame that i liked. this one is tough.
OP:
try to pick something more specific than "APM" and work on it by simplifying the rest of your game and focusing on one thing. you'll never get better if you try to get better at everything all the time. Do you want to remember to build stuff while you're harassing or even attacking? Want to remember to keep building scvs no matter what? Etc. Pick one specific attribute and get better at it.
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Here's what got my APM up in a matter of never having played an RTS for 10 years to peaking getting up pretty high.
Instead of thinking "what do I do now" make a list/group in your head that you keep a track off, so for zerg I'm keeping track of my hatcheries ( Hatch 1/hatch2/hatch3 - I have to spawn larva on them ) as well as keeping a rough gameplan in my head as to what I'm trying to accomplish and what I need to do that instead of just looking at my base/the map and thinking "now what?".
The trick for me was keeping track of my component pieces ( hatches/queens/ unit type 1/unit type 2 etc / scouting unit 1/ etc ) as well as ALWAYS having a plan for the next few minutes of the game.
Helped tremendously to go from a 60 apm peak to 200+ peak. as well as taking my average up quite a lot as well.
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10 pointless clicks aren't worth as much as 1 effective action.
That said, once you get used to your race(s) your APM will naturally increase as your get better and games become more intense.
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200 average here. I don't really spam a lot, but using hotkeys and switching between them constantly helps me feel like I'm in total control.
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just push yourself to your APM , you think you spam alot but it is quite usefull to have all for example one hotkey and jumping back and checking how long time until next spawn larvae thats what i did from almost no hotkeys to hotkeying everything.
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I have Brood War but sadly never played it, I was too young to get it when it was first released and then I got Wc3 and I got sucked into that game more, but looking back I really wish I played Brood War, I suck yes I know, and to be honest only since HoN have I looked to really seek playing games competitively, for I loved that game so much and got so good at it, since I got my hands on SC2 though I been really wanting to get good at this , its so damn good but tough :p
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Just try to multitask well and hihg APM will come eventually. Thats what i did in BROOD WAR. Dont really know if SC2 has hihg APM requirements but based on stuff i ready here it seems you dont need it...
you could AIM for a X APM but i think you only end up spaming HK and clicks
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Just spam and play a lot of games. The more you play, the better your mechanics become, and with mechanics your APM increases. You shouldn't be worrying about APM.. it comes with time, and if you keep on spamming you'll start getting used to doing things faster.
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If it hasnt already been mentioned, day[9] noted that the best way to increase your APM is to continually spam stuff. This will make you do your actions more quickly as you always think about going back and spamming more. You should get worse at first and then learn to use that spamming on efficient actions
I have about 130 apm as terran and am hanging around the top of platinum on the EU servers, and there is definitely MUCH more i could be doing
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Geez 200 apm in hon sounds mad hard...
i have like 300 in sc, but like 120 in hon :S
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I had around 130 or so in wc3, now in sc2 mine is about 90. It feels like im macroing more does anyone know how sc2 calculates the apm? Im curious as to why mine is so much lower.
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Don't know if this has been mentioned, but make sure to utilize your F keys. Clicking in the minimap or scrolling would reduce your APM considerably.
And spam , yeah. Be thinking ahead-- checking on the status of upgrades, buildings, units etc. Get a good rhythm with your hotkeys.. And you're set
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I notice my APM (probably from mass warp-ins) goes up toward the end of the game, but my multitasking macro sucks. Being good at multitasking will probably bring your APM up.
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SC2 is nowhere near as APM intensive as bw. Not something you need to really worry about as being a skill bottleneck until you're high plat, IMO.
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On April 29 2010 07:20 CowGoMoo wrote:
Take a FRAPS of yourself playing a normal game. View the FRAPS and identify points where your play is the slowest. Figure out why your being slow at these points and resolve the issues. (Watching a battle? Misclick small units? Panic? Busy thinking not executing? Lack of muscle memory when doing a specific set of actions you do almost every game?)
e.g. When you jump into a fight, it should be ingrained in your soul to do something like "1A2E3T5SS6AAAAAtabDDDBSBS11" which would have your army attack moving with Stim + EMP, and then doing a ton of basic macro. You shouldn't really need to think much or at all about this sort of thing. If you have to think about mechanics, your going to have a much lower APM than you could have. I bet if u memorize a string of characters and actions like the one above, you could prob do it with a 300+ APM burst.
You can literally practice most of this stuff with an air-keyboard.
Also, at some point you will have trouble parsing the information quickly enough, so get used to quickly moving the camera a ton using ctrl groups so your brain gets used to only seeing images for a fraction of a second. (If you play with very low APM, watch an FPVOD of Bisu or Nada and you probably won't be able to follow the game at all because of this)
This post literally beats the shit of my post read this please. Everything here is 100% correct. I am too lazy too fraps though I rely on memory to find out when I'm not doing too much. =P
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Lol in HoN I dont even think about it , I just spammed away because I was comfortable with the game , its like as most people are saying, the more comfortable you are with the game , the higher your APM will become.
I just did a practise match where I spammed on purpose and hit 106 on average, I felt I played much better because I was just keeping myself aware, I am gonna try little things like against a Protoss comp they will hav a zealot so I will spawn a Stalker and see how long I can keep running and killing them and managing my base, I managed to kill two before I lost my stalker :p
Also other things such as just having my army dance around , just keep moving them and macroing my base, so I get used to just having my army on the move and managing evething!
I am going to try and practise just a bit each day , and then see how I do in normal games, and I will let you guys know!
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I think people are underestimating the importance of spam and repetition. If you practise strings of commands (ie army control and macro) through repetition and spamming unnecessarily at times, during the heat of the moment in an important engagement, you will be able to rely on muscle memory over manual thought. For example, if you have three control groups of units (ie for protoss, you have a control group for your zealots, stalker/sentry, HT) and you cycle control groups 3-5 repeatedly to move them individually, when you get into a battle, you will be much more comfortable controlling each group individually while casting their spells through muscle memory. Same goes for having say three nexuses hotkeyed - you can cycle through bases and use chronoboost much quicker if you have been cycling through them consistently throughout the game/career, although a majority of those clicks would be considered "unnecessary spam" by other players.
My BW apm was around 210, while my SC2 apm is about 150, Protoss high Gold/low Plat player. In BW, I have used several different analysis programs to study my play, and one program considered consistently about 40% of my actions to be "spam", but at the end of the day, I played mechanically better with spamming as a part of my game.
Just my two cents.
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dont put to much faith in APM, in all honesty it's not exactly something that says you suck.
I've played games where my APM went down to 0 and i still won, why? Well because i had plans and was thinking, etc. (im not saying that should happen)
point is, just get better and managing your base that's where most of the apm comes from imho - macro. be building probes, expanding, pylons, units, research. honestly my APM would be higher if i would be better at quickly setting up research and unit production. Im not a pro or anything, but this is the advice i have gotten to get better at the game in general.
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just practice.
the better you get at macro and multitasking the higher your apm will get.
apm is a biproduct of skill.
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On April 29 2010 07:11 Piy wrote:
You need to spam. If you want high actions you MUST spam. You MUST spam. It's not a bad thing. Don't feel bad about.
APM is not pointless, it does make you a better player if you're faster. Not directly, but trust me, it helps.
This is coming from someone that jumped from 200 to 370 apm in BW with 210 eapm. And my skill level skyrocketed in the month where I did that.
You should spam. It helps, so much. I only just got my key (yay btw) so I'll use BW as an example. Being able to macro 10 rax SK terran TvZ without needing to try to hard is awesome. Being able to follow 2 groups of vultures + dropships + macro and continue your build is so important. You just have to make fewer concessions if you're fast, since you're capable of doing so much more.
imo anyways.....
True. spamming generates training for maximum potential APM and stamina. After that you need to focus on techniques in order to reduce time taken to perform an action. Then the benefit is acquired even better
You need to ingrain your build order extremely solid to get a boost (I play the Hotkey trainer UMS and i can get APM of 360 but at a normal game beyond the 3-4 minute mark It would drop to 240 because thats where things become random). Knowing the build and timings exact helps with APM (Since it becomes automatic)
Getting some high beat music while playing would also help because APM is also part of the mind. Get your body hyped up and you will be playing faster. Exercising more to get stronger stamina would also help 
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for people raging at lack of skill, remember that as this is beta, there's still alot of cheesy/non-standard/generally weird stuff going on, which means that decision making is far more important than control. In brood war everyone knows what the correct reaction is to any strat, so its just about who can do it better, hence the important of high apm, perfect technical play... scII play hasn't reached that level of sophistication yet.
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My average APM in BW was around 190-200, however I was a much bigger WC3 player and I averaged around 190 in WC3, in SC2 I average about 110-125 and I am rank 1 plat.
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to increase your apm, go play bw for 2 weeks, then come back to sc2 lol
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I think it's less about increasing your APM and more about increasing your situational awareness. I'm similar to you in that I've played at a high competitive level in another game (TF2) but have been out of the RTS scene for awhile. However, I would say in both games it's not about making a bunch of actions and then figuring out where to use them, it's about being fully aware of everything that needs to be done and then you will naturally increase your APM to meet the increased demand.
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my apm can go up tu like 150 sometimes, but most of the time it hovers around 60-70. My problem is that i sometimes find myself planning and thinking with like 2 apm :S I need to memorize strats and what to do in every situation.
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i feel like sc2 actually has a ton of room for better mechanics and more apm. after playing sc2 i average about 210-260 apm (170-200 in sc2's apm counter) for a 20 minutes game and my main bottleneck right now is mechanics; with more apm i would be more able to outmacro/micro other players more efficiently, and be able to actually harass with drops and nydus worms and stuff while sticking to my normal gameplan.
for OP, just practice keeping different units in different hotkeys instead of one big blob of 1a. just moving your army will take a bit of apm, and if you're Z, you should never have a lack of things to do like splitting overlords, spreading creep, and puking larvae.
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Focus on macroing. Micro might be nice and fun, but you need strong macro to be good in sc/sc2. Your top priority should be to spend all your money on units and never have too much unused resources. If needed build more prodiction facilities and just mass units. Against the vast majority of players in the beta your army should be superior if you had concentrated on your macro. When you become used to keeping up with army production and not being supply stuck, you will notice that your apm has risen. At that point you can begin to try to harrass your opponent, engage in small micro-heavy battles and so on.
Btw you cannot compare HoN to sc2 at all. Sc2 needs you to pay attention to a lot of stuff at the same time. The pace can change at any given moment (e.g. harrassing, being dropped, engaging in battle...). Since there are so many factors to which you have to pay attention in sc2 you should set a priorities as long as you are not fast enough to do everything at once. And as I already mentioned, macroing should be your first priority. When your macro becomes better you will see a large increase in your winning rate. From then on you can try to polish your skills further and further.
As HickleStine already said:
You don't increase APM to get better, getting better increases your APM.
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On April 29 2010 06:51 selboN wrote:
60-70 apm for platinum >.<
Bring skill back to SC plz!
Or they just need to create the Pro League which will be top 10 of the current Platinum leaguers. Then I doubt we'll see 60~70 APMers. On the other hand there are good players with relatively low APMs. (Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Lz has around 100?)
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On April 29 2010 06:51 selboN wrote:
60-70 apm for platinum >.<
Bring skill back to SC plz!
Seriously... People with ~60 APM should not be able to put up a fight with someone with 100+
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On April 29 2010 09:31 Exteray wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2010 06:51 selboN wrote:
60-70 apm for platinum >.<
Bring skill back to SC plz! Or they just need to create the Pro League which will be top 10 of the current Platinum leaguers. Then I doubt we'll see 60~70 APMers. On the other hand there are good players with relatively low APMs. (Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Lz has around 100?)
He's not the only one. Many pro players still roam around 120. Actually many 200 apm situations only exist because of spaming. It really feels like it's much about tactics few about actions.
My apm dropped (comparing WC3 with SC2) from 220 avg 400 infight to 100 avg, dunno about infight but it doesn't exceed 200.
On April 29 2010 09:32 TwilightStar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2010 06:51 selboN wrote:
60-70 apm for platinum >.<
Bring skill back to SC plz! Seriously... People with ~60 APM should not be able to put up a fight with someone with 100+
Well, they are. there isn't so much to micro. How many APM do you need to do reaper or hellion harass and build up at the same time? If people wouldn't spam commands such as movement, maybe 120. Like 60 for controlling 2 units and 60 for macroing at the same time.
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It's more important to make your actions actually mean something than just doing a bunch of stuff because somewhere along the line you fell for the idea that high APM = skilled.
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ignore APM, just play what your comfortable with, then when u play enough you'll be better either way. theres really no need to continue clicking constantly, if anything just that its ticking in the back of your head "OH MUST CLICK" then u forget to do something, and it all goes to pot.
like watching orb constantly drag/select click on his workers at start of a game, theres really no need whatsoever, maybe once or twice to hotkey them if needed but thats it ;x
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I dont think APM is skill, I just want to increase my APM in this game because then I will play at a higher/faster rate so will be better at multi tasking , even if I had a consistent APM of 300 I would lose to someone with 50 if they had much better knowledge on the game and unit composition etc.
I just want to clarify that , I do not trhink hey look he has 200 APM must be amazing, no I just want to play this game at a higher rate so I will be better at stuff such as Thor drops etc where I cannot hope to do that atm.
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On April 29 2010 07:12 link0 wrote:
Don't worry about APM at all. Some people make a ton of redundant/unecessary clicks. Many people also spam actions in the beginning of the game. At least 90% of the people I beat have higher average APM than me.
Oh hi
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EPT
