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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
So far I'm extremely impressed with what Dustin and co have done, and a ton of people are enjoying the game. If you aren't having any fun then just don't play the game. Now, if you want to provide constructive criticism then that's fine, but whining about Dustin Browder and Command Conquer should be bannable as it doesn't add anything other than annoying whining. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 13 2010 18:36 Eury wrote: Can people stop being whining cry babies? The game is extremely balanced for being a beta, and the beta isn't even over yet. So far I'm extremely impressed with what Dustin and co have done, and a ton of people are enjoying the game. If you aren't having any fun then just don't play the game. Now, if you want to provide constructive criticism then that's fine, but whining about Dustin Browder and Command Conquer should be bannable as it doesn't add anything other than annoying whining. This is a forum and the whole point is to discuss things and voice opinion. Obviously you can go too far when you start having a go for no reason. I'm enjoying the beta a lot but the truth is it wasn't created for "esports" which is what the majority of TL would have wanted. At least he's honest and admits that, but when you come to look at a lot of the problems with the match-ups they boil down to decisions that just weren't thought through. "this would be fun" is a good way to make a casual game, but it's not a good way to make a competitive game. Of course they still have time to rectify the mistakes. | ||
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Thug[ro]
Romania340 Posts
it's like im watching Seinfeld - a show about nothing - great ideea to make RTS games i'm not saying that i dont like the game but seriously it needs alot of changes and i dont see how they can make it in time still i hope.... and plz add music for obs/referees whatever.. | ||
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z]Benny
Romania253 Posts
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
On April 13 2010 18:45 Klive5ive wrote: This is a forum and the whole point is to discuss things and voice opinion. Obviously you can go too far when you start having a go for no reason. I'm enjoying the beta a lot but the truth is it wasn't created for "esports" which is what the majority of TL would have wanted. At least he's honest and admits that, but when you come to look at a lot of the problems with the match-ups they boil down to decisions that just weren't thought through. "this would be fun" is a good way to make a casual game, but it's not a good way to make a competitive game. Of course they still have time to rectify the mistakes. As I said constructive criticism is welcomed, but most of the posting in this thread have been more ranting than anything else. That's just a waste of everyone's time. Btw how do you think original Starcraft was created? "Fun" is the game design philosophy Blizzard have always designed around. E-sports barely existed as a concept when Starcraft was created, a lot less dedication was paid to the competitive crowd in the creation of Starcraft than in Starcraft 2. | ||
Falling
Canada11349 Posts
On April 13 2010 18:01 TerranUp16 wrote: Eh... You're taking a very specific example and then generalizing it. That is, you're taking the example of where developers want to have a sizable amount of very easily balanceable factions- . . . . . rebalancing them for a less-massable role there would allow Roaches to resume many of their "unique" and "awesome" design elements, but Blizzard seems to refuse doing this and instead is intent on nerfing Roaches into a proper, massable T1/T1.5 role that is completely not what they were originally designed for. Somehow I feel your post was unnecessarily long... I would not say that I was excluding other methods of creating unique gameplay whether creatively or balanced. I was however, responding to comment that was dismissing Blizzard's efforts to find creative gameplay because supposedly all that matters is balance. Balance does matter, and for a beta SCII is incredibly balanced, but creativity matters too. People seemed to be freaking out that Blizzard was trying to make creative units, whereas I thought it was rather natural, given that they were making a new game. You could argue that another method is better then Blizzards method (Your very detailed DoW2 example). But I'm suggesting that people shouldn't be freaking out on the specific wording of Browder's comments. He's giving the general arc of their development process, but there would be all sorts of nuances to their development process. I don't deny that they may hang on to units when they could be axed, but I just don't understand this latest freak out. | ||
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Adama
Spain18 Posts
They are a group of world class game engineers, programers, artist and thinking tanks. They are a lot of them, they are well payed for what they do, and probably they like what they do. Also, they have been working on this project for years. How can you dare to question such a basic and fundamental aspect of their work as their methods? Have you produced many videogames? Are you Miyamoto, Kojima, Newell? WTF do you know. FFS GUYS, think ahead. You need a really strong argument to say "They are doing it wrong", not some forum thesis. The most funy thing, you do it based on 6 lines of Dustin words. facepalm. | ||
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Fizban140
Korea (South)129 Posts
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
On April 13 2010 19:09 Adama wrote: How is people complaining about sc2 development process? They are a group of world class game engineers, programers, artist and thinking tanks. They are a lot of them, they are well payed for what they do, and probably they like what they do. Also, they have been working on this project for years. How can you dare to question such a basic and fundamental aspect of their work as their methods? Have you produced many videogames? Are you Miyamoto, Kojima, Newell? WTF do you know. FFS GUYS, think ahead. You need a really strong argument to say "They are doing it wrong", not some forum thesis. The most funy thing, you do it based on 6 lines of Dustin words. facepalm. Welcome to the real world, where talent is a rare commodity and not everyone with experience or getting paid well is actually that talented. Dustin does seems pretty clueless. | ||
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TerranUp16
United States88 Posts
On April 13 2010 19:06 Falling wrote:Somehow I feel your post was unnecessarily long... I would not say that I was excluding other methods of creating unique gameplay whether creatively or balanced. I was however, responding to comment that was dismissing Blizzard's efforts to find creative gameplay because supposedly all that matters is balance. Balance does matter, and for a beta SCII is incredibly balanced, but creativity matters too. People seemed to be freaking out that Blizzard was trying to make creative units, whereas I thought it was rather natural, given that they were making a new game. You could argue that another method is better then Blizzards method (Your very detailed DoW2 example). But I'm suggesting that people shouldn't be freaking out on the specific wording of Browder's comments. He's giving the general arc of their development process, but there would be all sorts of nuances to their development process. I don't deny that they may hang on to units when they could be axed, but I just don't understand this latest freak out. Yeah, I tend to take a small thing as a launching point and then to use that to make some bigger point/cover some bigger topic. My apologies if it felt like I was harping a bit too much on what you said. Anyway, yeah I definitely agree that the game is plenty balanced, particularly for a beta (given that Relic severely broke DoW 2's balance while improving nearly all aspects of gameplay with the Chaos Rising expansion and just fixed that a little less than a month later with 2.2, I definitely appreciate the job Blizzard has done with balancing, although it is well interesting to note that Relic was willing to let balance drift off for a short bit knowing they could eventually bring it back in line to improve the game). I'm just still concerned that... it just isn't as fun as SC1 was nor as exciting to watch even, despite that some additional experimentation and a few key changes could really fix that, but Blizzard seems to be pretty locked-in with where they're going atm. As I was saying in my original post, it's not so much that shotgun design is bad (provided you have the resources/time/etc to pull it off) but rather that Blizzard seems to be backing off from it now but not really replacing it with traditional design either and that seems to be leaving serious issues with the game's design and long-term eSport, spectator, and even gameplay viability (or, in fewer words, it seems like SC2 could be a vastly superior product if Blizzard were more open to refining it a lot more- for example, even as a Terran I'd be far more interested in Roaches that could make increased use of burrowed movement to pose ninja threats to my Tank lines and etc). | ||
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Ghardo
Germany1685 Posts
when one looks at the roach (which may have been a very unique unit once) and now compares it to hydras it's the exact opposite of what bowder says: they took a unit with a distinct role and standardized it so far that we now have two units with similarly unimpressive "a click range" roles. | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
Now unless they actually do make drastic changes which everyone seems to agree is very unlikely, we're stuck with at least 2 superunits available at tier1. Yeehaw. | ||
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Boundz(DarKo)
5311 Posts
Sidenote: I don't have beta. | ||
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bEsT[Alive]
606 Posts
On April 13 2010 11:08 iG.ClouD wrote: They just needed to hire great, smart players to balance the game. It just seems they don't understand much of what they are doing. The part where the pylon is the weak point of a proxy gate rush made me rofl so bad. Any above average player would target the gateways unless the probe is dead, which is very unlikely in the vast majority of these games. I'm still waiting for a news post stating Sean Plott, or Victor Goossens has been picked up by Blizzard as a balance tester. | ||
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Fizban140
Korea (South)129 Posts
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
Nice one | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
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TerranUp16
United States88 Posts
On April 13 2010 21:06 SubtleArt wrote: Interesting units and the best they came up with was roach / hydra / stalker / marauder / a HEALING DROPSHIP (what were they smoking)? Nice one Eh, to be perfectly fair, I kinda like the Medivac, xD In particular, when I am meching it gives my poor little Barracks a use, to create some Marines that I can eventually load into a Medivac along with some Tanks and the Medivacs will help boost my little Marines to help protect the Tanks. I do have a couple of kinda sorta issues with them though in that infantry Medics were a little more interesting from a micro standpoint because of their utility as makeshift walls and they were lower in the tech tree and I think the lack of them in that spot of the tech tree is helping to spur the "need" for Marauders. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
The cool is gone, but the units are still there, boring and all. I think SC1 took a similar approach, but kept the cool in because they weren't so pressed for balance right away (think 1998). That allowed us to have cool things with crazy micro such as Reavers, Vultures (with and without mines), "invincible" M&M balls vs nearly instant-marine-killing Lurkers. People would cry IMBA today and we would lose them. Does anyone think Colossus Micro is as exciting as Reaver? Can Hellions even compare to Vultures? They have to stop to attack (balance). Where are the imba spells of SC1, such as Irridate (delay kill almost any Zerg unit, and splash damage), Spawn Broodling (instant kill many units), and anything the Defiler has. Seriously - consider the Defiler on paper. It's way too good. Sacrifice a few 25 mineral units and you can spam countless Plagues that reduce units with a couple hundred HP to 1. Or spam countless Dark Swarms against Terrans who can only send in weak firebats or use splash damage. These Imba spells do not exist in SC2 because out of the fear of balance. I'd rather they did, because they are cool and can be managed by strategy and/or patches instead of outright removal. | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + jk, crisium is right on the spot | ||
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