[D] Zerg and Spawn Larva - Page 8

On April 10 2010 05:51 Floophead_III wrote:
Um. Larva IS a resource. It is a production resource which limits the number of units you can make. In BW it was a very integral part of zerg play. Obviously by the fact that you think it's not even a resource in SC2 you are proving my point, which is that it is no longer even a consideration for zerg players. There's no larva management to be done. Macro getting bad? No problem you have 15 larva to blow your money on! Busy fighting a battle? No problem spend 3 seconds spawning larva and macro when it's over!

On April 10 2010 06:00 zomgzergrush wrote:

Last time I checked, a spawned larvae does not give you minerals nor gas, one or both of which are required to egg said larvae. The number of larvae you have is but one limitation of your production, just like how many gateways/rax you have limits your production, but you need the proper resources in order to produce out of all gateways/rax.

This is backwards, if you have many larvae that MEANS you have bad macro. Also, yeah, just completely ignore my earlier post why don't you. You fuckup the spawn larvae timing and you don't get it back since you can only spew on a hatch once at any time.

Finally, I'm pretty sure you never responded with your league at any point.

On April 10 2010 06:00 zomgzergrush wrote:

Last time I checked, a spawned larvae does not give you minerals nor gas, one or both of which are required to egg said larvae. The number of larvae you have is but one limitation of your production, just like how many gateways/rax you have limits your production, but you need the proper resources in order to produce out of all gateways/rax.

This is backwards, if you have many larvae that MEANS you have bad macro. Also, yeah, just completely ignore my earlier post why don't you. You fuckup the spawn larvae timing and you don't get it back since you can only spew on a hatch once at any time.

Finally, I'm pretty sure you never responded with your league at any point.

On April 10 2010 07:04 Floophead_III wrote:


I'm a platinum player. I thought that was pretty much common knowledge since I say it in basically every thread I post in. If you think I'm posting because I'm losing, I'm not. I win quite a bit vs zerg, but it's not the way I want to be winning. It doesn't feel right. All I do is abuse maps and they can't stop it. If maps were balanced this game would show a massive favoring towards zerg. You know how I know this? I never ever ever win on metalopolis vs zerg. I can't do it, because there's absolutely nothing to abuse.

The point is not that I have so many larva I can't use them, it's that I have so many I can use them however I want. I can make any army composition at any point provided I have the money. I also never ever ever have issues spending my money, because if I use my spawn larvas I'll always have a way to just build 30 units at once and use everything. It's not even enjoyable to play zerg because I can just not macro for 3 minutes and still have a bigger army than the other player because of spawn larva. Granted it's bad play, but it isn't punished and it should be.

That's like being P or Z and saying "terran has too much money. Nerf mules."
Or T or Z saying "P's chronoboost gives them insane upgrades and mothership. Nerf mothership and chronoboost"

First off, that statement is the most wrong thing in this post. Zerg needs MORE money to expand PRODUCTION past queens. You are mistaking over and over and over again that more larvae AUTOMATICALLY = more production. More larvae is only PART of more production, but to get more production, you need MORE RESOURCES.

On April 10 2010 04:22 HTX wrote:

Thats all clear and fine so far. Compared to mule and chrono the larva inject is the zerg macro way to keep up. Think what most people dont like is the stockpiling abillity whats get you further away than just keeping up(lategame situations). Think about lategame where you dont need to spend your money on hatches for more larva but you can spend your money all at once on units.

On April 10 2010 09:30 Bibdy wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Queen provide more larvae than a single Hatchery, for less than half the cost? This is just based on observation.

You can use Spawn Larva every 25 energy, which takes 50 "normal" seconds to regenerate (confirm/deny?), so that's 1 larvae every 12.5 seconds.

Whereas, a normal Hatchery spawns one Larva every 15 seconds (another pops out just before a Drone is finished, which takes 17 seconds) and can even get cock-blocked by already having too many larva present and unable to produce any more, while the Queen can just keep getting nasty with that Hatchery.

Seems like a remarkable difference compared to those big, honkin' Hatchery nests in SC1.

Protoss and Terran can stockpile energy to MULE or Chrono boost whenever they get to it. Zerg have to inject larva every time it's available or that energy gets wasted for macro purposes.

Stockpiling larva is like saving energy to chrono boost and MULE later on.

[[EDIT]] If you let the zerg player make thirty roaches in one minute, that means he had 1500 / 750 sitting around. What did you do with your 1500/750? (Or something like 2000 / 750 since your macro mechanic is made of minerals.) If your problem is that both of you are sitting around with 1500 / 750 and you and the zerg start up production at the same time and you get rolled, you shouldn't have stockpiled that money, and it sure as hell does not take eight reactor rax to spend down the income off two bases if you're continuously pumping.

On April 10 2010 10:37 Daerthalus wrote:


The imbalance is not that he can rebuild faster, it's that he can rebuild faster with no effort beyond his spawn larva 1/ 50s, while you have to macro those Barracks to keep unit production up. AND that you have to anticipate what he doing and react in advance, while he can switch production instantly if has the structure and larva.

A Terran going from Bio to Mass Banshees has to build more ports, this telegraphs the strategy/unit comp change to the other player. If I see 4x Rax I assume Bio, if then you build 4x Starports I'm going to assume you're switching, why else build those 4 ports. A zerg can build a roach warren then skip making roaches b.c he scouted you massing Immortals. He doesn't have to commit much to his roach strategy beyond that single warren.

A Bio Terran with few Vikings scouts a Protoss 6+ Colossi. He can't suddenly queue up a bunch of Air units with 1 Starport only. A Zerg who's making hydras who sees a bunch of Colossi can then use his larva buildup to make Mutas or Corrupters instead of Hydras.

On April 10 2010 09:44 Daerthalus wrote:


Actually if that was the case, the queen would have a non-energy using ability that had a cooldown. You forget to use it, you lose it. As it stands if you have an extra hatch you can easily cover for forgetting to use your queen.

Once again, Mule DO NOT INCREASE unit building times, or unit production. So yeah you don't have to use it on CD.

Chrono boost does increase production speed, so if you have 1 Nexus and 1 Stargate and you don't CB that Stargate EVERY 20s you're losing out. You can't CD it 4x and have it build 200% faster. 1 Chrono boost per production building every 20s is the optimal way to do it.

It's not identical, but very similar mechanics except Zerg can stock pile their macro mechanics. A Protoss with no Robo Bay can't CB his Robo Fac a few times and then later once his Robo Bay is done build Colossi super fast. A zerg w/o a spire can stock pile larva then make a bunch of mutas once his spire is up.

A protoss without a stargate can stockpile energy and then chain chrono boost as soon as the stargate is up.