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On March 10 2010 08:20 MidKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 07:43 Xxio wrote:
I watched the Muta vs. Phoenix, maybe now people will stop whining about Z air The problem is that Zerg can mass muta way more easily than Protoss can mass phoenixes. So even though phoenix *is* cost effective against mutalisk, muta to phoenix ratio is like 3:1 at best when mutas come to protoss base. Protoss just can't forego robotics tech or he will get splatted by roaches, and going both robotics and stargate is just too costly. Besides you would need to go double stargate to build enough phoenixes to counter muta anyway
those are not valid points because you are strickly talking in being a late reactor it's like mutas just appear or roaches just appear, do you never scout?
zerg can get mutas faster becuase of their production style but the gas cost is still heavy and hard do your timing accordingly don't jump in 1 vs 3 phe to mutalisk back off wait for more production
it's like saying everything the zerg does is imba because they can produce 3 at once. But you can produce 200 at once with out gate ways just the same if zerg has enough hatcheries.
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wow, I'm really confused about the sentries vs mutalisks fight.
I know the shield reduces 2 damage, but damn I thought mutalisks were supposed to be quite good, especially since they have more HP, more damage, and attack multiple targets against the a lot weaker by stats sentries.
Aslo the mutalisks vs phoenix battle was really weird, since most people were complaining how protoss air was very weak against mutalisks.
There were like half or more phoenixes left, while all the mutalisks died.
anyways nice testing, interesting videos and keep up the good job.
Maybe make 200 zerglings vs 100 marines video or 100 vikings vs 100 mutalisks.
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The sentries don't reduce damage from a mutalisk by 2. They reduce EVERY hit by 2 damage.
A mutalisk attack is 3 hits. The hit, the bounce, the second bounce, and the shield helps with all of them. Plus, sentries get a bunch of bonus damage versus biological, and are poor against armor due to a low damage fast attack... but mutalisks dont' have any armor.
Overall, it's a ton of gas, but sentries basically have everything about them being JUST good enough to be important in a battle with mutalisks. Great ability, bonus damage, attack type which is good versus mutalisks, and just enough range to be useful in small and medium sized micro battles.
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On March 10 2010 08:30 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'm quite disappointed by how badly marines beat zealots. Zealots are supposed to be better than Marines since Marines are ranged and get to attack air.
Don't be.
As I said, that battle does not represent gameplay reality at all, because the larger the numbers, the marines grow exponentially in power since they can dish out their entire damage per second while the zealots are limited by pathfinding towards the marines.
In small, realistic numbers fights, zealots probably utterly dominate marines, in a similar manner zerglings dominated zealots.
Also, to the person who said that if this was in BW that the zealots would slaughter the marines... I highly doubt that, and I think that maybe the difference would be even higher, since the BW zealots are much dumber while the marines only have to be clumped from the start.
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It would be really neat to see just basic speedlings versus zealots. I was REALLY surprised the zealots weren't able to win in that battle, because you would think that larger numbers would only favor the more powerful, less numerous unit, due to being able to get more of it's damage capacity into combat at once.
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In a choke like that, it would be fair for Zealots to beat Zerglings. Zealots should be able to beat Zerglings if only 1-2 Zerglings can attack a Zealot at a time, but if there is enough room for 3-4 Zerglings to attack a Zealot, then the Zerglings would win. That way PvZ ground v ground would be fair.
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archon have less range to attack in sc2 i think, only the first line was attacking... (sorry my bad english )
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holy crap phoenixes rape mutas... now how do they do against corrupters? 
would like to see corrupter vs phoenix, corrupter vs viking, phoenix vs viking 
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I'll save you the trouble on phoenix versus vikings, corruptor versus viking, and corruptor vs phoenix.
The phoenix are going to lose to corruptors, but not fantastically badly, and the vikings will absolutely own the shit out of the corruptors and beat the phoenix less decisively but still with a wide margin of safety.
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On March 10 2010 09:18 timmins wrote:
It would be really neat to see just basic speedlings versus zealots. I was REALLY surprised the zealots weren't able to win in that battle, because you would think that larger numbers would only favor the more powerful, less numerous unit, due to being able to get more of it's damage capacity into combat at once.
kind of got that backwards...4 zerglings can only take on 1 zealot but 12 can already take on 4. as zergling # increase the ratio decreases.
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On March 10 2010 08:49 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 08:40 Assault_1 wrote:On March 10 2010 08:30 Chairman Ray wrote:
Hey thanks for the vids, they were very good info!
I'm quite disappointed by how badly marines beat zealots. Zealots are supposed to be better than Marines since Marines are ranged and get to attack air. what would happen if 200rines vs 100zealots in bw? Without micro, Marines get slaughtered by Zealots in BW
They didn't have any reason to nerf the Zealot shield from 60 to 50,I think maybe thats why they lost...
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It would be really neat to see just basic speedlings versus zealots. I was REALLY surprised the zealots weren't able to win in that battle, because you would think that larger numbers would only favor the more powerful, less numerous unit, due to being able to get more of it's damage capacity into combat at once.
The only thing that matters in this case is how many units are attacking at once. So how well a unit clumps makes a big difference in the battle (more dps). The other thing is that Zerglings were able to go for a surround due to quicker speed, larger numbers and bad Zealot placement, which allowed even more dps.Not sure about the actual differences in stats though.
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On March 10 2010 07:43 Xxio wrote:
I watched the Muta vs. Phoenix, maybe now people will stop whining about Z air
Phoenixes not only cost more than mutalisks but they can't attack ground so if you mass phoenixes to deal with mutas the zerg can then just mass any ground unit and you've lost, whereas mutas will work vs either.
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EPT
