EPTCommand Centers vs Depots? - Page 4
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Gedrah
465 Posts
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
On March 03 2010 09:28 Gedrah wrote: Mules just make you mine out the mineral patches faster, not add minerals to the patch. If you're concerned about the efficiency of getting free supply out of OC so that less money is tied up in supply, then you definitely wouldn't make an extra 550-mineral structure to do so. You would drop supply pods on your depots, this doesn't reduce the total number of minerals available to your army, it only reduces your income compared to if you dropped mules. Why build SCVs, they just make you mine out the mineral patches faster, not add minerals to the patch. Whatever your answer is, I can say the same for mules. | ||
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Gaspa79
Argentina5 Posts
Seriously. | ||
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Poly325
United States99 Posts
On March 03 2010 10:19 Gaspa79 wrote: I can't believe people are actually considering this. Seriously. my thoughts precisely. | ||
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Poly325
United States99 Posts
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Gedrah
465 Posts
On March 03 2010 06:55 Klockan3 wrote: Considering that a cc mines roughly as good per cost as normal workers if you consider that it also provides supply, and considering that cc mining won't ever oversaturate the fields you will not get that behind from him taking another expansion. And you can just as well take an expansion if you want, if he tries to attack it just fly back with your cc... Young man, it's been stated 3-5 times in this thread already, but your plan is full of holes. TIMING is ridiculously important, and you will be 550 minerals behind as soon as you build the OC in your main. Mules only mine minerals that are already there, you'll mine out your main and be 550 minerals behind on unit production, tech, and upgrades in the short-term for no actual long-term benefit other than having more scanner energy. Useful for getting an early look at the army that's coming to stuff your 2nd OC up your asshole, sideways. Mining your main out faster is NOT equal to taking an expansion, you get no gas out of an OC, Mules don't mine gas, can't mine gas, and don't want to mine gas. | ||
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Gedrah
465 Posts
On March 03 2010 09:35 wintergt wrote: Why build SCVs, they just make you mine out the mineral patches faster, not add minerals to the patch. Whatever your answer is, I can say the same for mules. An SCV pays for itself in 10 trips and continues mining forever. An OC pays for itself, kind of, once you've made 2 mules. Those mules die off, can't build structures, won't still be around when it's time to take a new base. For the price of that 550-mineral OC you could have gotten 11 SCVs which would pay for themselves after 10 trips and continue mining afterward, a very small and temporary investment of 50 minerals which returns very quickly. You might have smart-alecky comparisons to make between SCVs and Mules but they aren't the same thing, and if you think you can win a TvT or any other match with just mules, I'd like to see it. Keep making OCs as the basis for your economy  | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Depots over CCs. If you need math or an explanation in addition to what has already been posted as to why this is true, you're beyond our help. | ||
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
On March 03 2010 10:27 Gedrah wrote: An SCV pays for itself in 10 trips and continues mining forever. An OC pays for itself, kind of, once you've made 2 mules. Those mules die off, can't build structures, won't still be around when it's time to take a new base. For the price of that 550-mineral OC you could have gotten 11 SCVs which would pay for themselves after 10 trips and continue mining afterward, a very small and temporary investment of 50 minerals which returns very quickly. You might have smart-alecky comparisons to make between SCVs and Mules but they aren't the same thing, and if you think you can win a TvT or any other match with just mules, I'd like to see it. Keep making OCs as the basis for your economy I dont know if spammin CCs is ever good but thats plain wrong. The fact that mules die doesnt mean shit, since the OC keeps making new ones. I think it might be a sensible thing to do, on some map, some situation, preferably on gold minerals. Just making your next CC abit earlier, to generate some energy. On certain type of FFA maps at least if nothing else... But chances are its not something to take as a standard thing. | ||
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Tiamat
United States498 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On March 03 2010 09:34 TanGeng wrote: ~60-70 game seconds I think. It's about 6 or 7 seconds for 1 round trip. No, they don't do their trips any faster than mules, if a mule gets 270 in 90 seconds it means that a normal worker gets 45 in the same time. A cc pays off itself roughly as fast as scv's do if you add in the 17 supply it also provides compared to building 6 scv's. The only thing you lose is the gas it costs to get the OC. On March 03 2010 10:27 Gedrah wrote: An SCV pays for itself in 10 trips and continues mining forever. An OC pays for itself, kind of, once you've made 2 mules. Those mules die off, can't build structures, won't still be around when it's time to take a new base. For the price of that 550-mineral OC you could have gotten 11 SCVs which would pay for themselves after 10 trips and continue mining afterward, a very small and temporary investment of 50 minerals which returns very quickly. You might have smart-alecky comparisons to make between SCVs and Mules but they aren't the same thing, and if you think you can win a TvT or any other match with just mules, I'd like to see it. Keep making OCs as the basis for your economy You wont get 11 scv's for that cost since you need to get supply for them. Also since the OC can drop another mule every time the old one is used up it is basically like building a permanent mule. Building a cc proviced the same benefit as building 6 scv's and 2 supply depots, that is 500 minerals. Of course it isn't the best thing to do all the time, but it certainly isn't as laughable as many here seems to think it is. Especially in longer games where you hit the supply caps, getting supply free workers with imba mining speeds per patch can be huge. On March 03 2010 10:23 Gedrah wrote: Young man, it's been stated 3-5 times in this thread already, but your plan is full of holes. TIMING is ridiculously important, and you will be 550 minerals behind as soon as you build the OC in your main. Mules only mine minerals that are already there, you'll mine out your main and be 550 minerals behind on unit production, tech, and upgrades in the short-term for no actual long-term benefit other than having more scanner energy. Useful for getting an early look at the army that's coming to stuff your 2nd OC up your asshole, sideways. Mining your main out faster is NOT equal to taking an expansion, you get no gas out of an OC, Mules don't mine gas, can't mine gas, and don't want to mine gas. This isn't my plan or topic, I just mathcrafted. Anyway, your point is exactluy the same as saying "TIMING is ridiculously important, and you will be 150 minerals behind as soon as you build the SCV and supply depot", but do that mean that you should stop building scv's and depots just because they do put your mineral count back a short while? Also, why would anyone build more scv's when "they just mine minerals that are already there"? It costs 50 minerals and you gain "nothing" from it! (That was mocking him for the dumb people out there who might have thought that those were seriously my opinions...) Yes the CC takes a bit longer to construct so it ties up the minerals slightly longer, but it provides a lot of other benefits as well. I don't say that this is uber viable, I just want to say that everyone scoffing haven't really thought about it. It barely costs more than building scv's and supply depots per benefit, and that don't take into account the many benefits of having mules instead of scv's as mineral gatherers. | ||
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
On March 03 2010 10:23 Gedrah wrote: Young man, it's been stated 3-5 times in this thread already, but your plan is full of holes. TIMING is ridiculously important, and you will be 550 minerals behind as soon as you build the OC in your main. Mules only mine minerals that are already there, you'll mine out your main and be 550 minerals behind on unit production, tech, and upgrades in the short-term for no actual long-term benefit other than having more scanner energy. Useful for getting an early look at the army that's coming to stuff your 2nd OC up your asshole, sideways. Mining your main out faster is NOT equal to taking an expansion, you get no gas out of an OC, Mules don't mine gas, can't mine gas, and don't want to mine gas. Then explain to me how it is possible a game can exist where KHB masses CCs (makes 10+ of them in 15 minutes) and wins? Obviously there is more possible and the game has more depth already than we can easily ascertain. | ||
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