EPTAll I See is Attack-Move - Page 3
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Rodiel
France573 Posts
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On February 21 2010 23:13 Rodiel wrote: Now I understand what my friends who play DOTA feel when i show them SC1 Vodz and they say that its boring. its because they are used to watch awsome games where people farm creeps for 20 mins and 5 fights/deaths happen evry 15 minutes. oh and also since 99.99%of dota players are terrible noobs that would suck at evry other game they just dont understand sc. | ||
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LarJarsE
United States1378 Posts
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LarJarsE
United States1378 Posts
On February 21 2010 20:16 ejac wrote: . Also dragoon/stalker micro is different, and I've seen obvious improvement in Louders micro with them over the past few days. he has been getting goood!! | ||
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cuteFayth
Canada1167 Posts
On February 21 2010 05:48 FREEloss_ca wrote: I've been watching streams none-stop since beta began and the 'battles' in SC2 have been generally lack-luster. I've yet to see any strategic battles/engagements. I've seen no use of flanking/trapping maneuvers and I've seen no use/benefit of map control. I've seen some micro, especially in early game situations with small groups of units fighting it out, but nothing compared to what we saw in BW, especially in mid/late game scenarios. Basically every game, players attack-move their 'ball' of units into each other. There's some micro involved in regards to casting spells/abilities, especially with Protoss; but for the most part battles appear to be big cluster-fucks until one player realizes they're losing and decide to retreat. Maybe these aspects of the game will flesh out more with time as it evolves. Or maybe something needs to be done with the game's mechanics. I feel that the ability to hotkey more than 12 units to a key contributes to the way battles are fought out. Or maybe it's the lack of/lack of usefulness with siege units. What does TL.net think? dude we've been playing for a few days, come on, nobody's pro yet | ||
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starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
if you played sc1 vanilla people did some pretty dumb shit... i.e. teching straight to reavers or wraiths without making any other units and/or walling was pretty common on a lot of maps. You would probably wonder why people didn't scout, but that was the case 19/20 games. | ||
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Plethora
United States206 Posts
Micro: Right now I'm watching ggtemplar's stream and he seems to be playing around with a marauder hellion combo vs zerg... at first he a-moved and lost but in his next game he kinda let the marauders do their thing and danced his hellions backwards and forwards during the battle and won a battle with comparable army sizes. Its a learning experience. Strategy: I have seen tons of examples of players who do something like bust up their opponents natural, then lose their army trying to push up a heavily defended ramp and eventually lose to a counterattack. Or win a big battle in the middle then try to push in and win the game only to lose to a counter. Its only a matter of time before people start to realize the value of contains, or winning a battle and expanding and all the stuff the people know from sc1 but aren't really thinking about right now. | ||
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HalfAmazing
Netherlands402 Posts
Units die very quickly and they take a long time to respond. This is not a recipe for great micro action. At least in War III the units are huge, and have tons of hitpoints so it's easier to deal with the game's built-in lag. There's more of a buffer. They need to crack this beeyotch and get LAN latency going in some way. | ||
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ZerglingShepherd
Canada99 Posts
I think that good strategy and lack of a-move comes when there are units whose usefulness in a battle is very sensitive to their position. And I think this is especially true for units that take time and effort to set up properly. In SC1, tanks, lurkers, reavers, weak but powerful ranged units, etc were great examples of weak units whose potential to wreak havoc on the enemy increased dramatically with proper timing and placement. Mines properly placed are also a great example of this concept. So far things seem to be very 'mobile' in SC2, especially with units like reapers and the colossus that have the ability to get in, do damage, and get out without putting themselves in too much danger. The enhanced mobility of units in SC2 seems to open up many more avenues for movement, which IMO in a RTS game can serve to reduce the level of strategy, because conversely, restricting mobility forces the player to carefully consider the path his units are taking or risk losing them. I haven't played SC2, so I'm hoping this worrying is very misplaced. | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On February 22 2010 02:20 HalfAmazing wrote: Latency, yo. It's why War III players make such a big deal out of getting a specific host when they play online. It is often the difference between winning and losing. Routing everything through battle.net just makes the game feel laggy and unresponsive. Even if the game feels smooth to you, it isn't. The game needs LAN support so we can get around this. Units die very quickly and they take a long time to respond. This is not a recipe for great micro action. At least in War III the units are huge, and have tons of hitpoints so it's easier to deal with the game's built-in lag. There's more of a buffer. They need to crack this beeyotch and get LAN latency going in some way. There already is LAN latency in B.Net 2. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On February 22 2010 02:24 ZerglingShepherd wrote: First off, I have not played the beta, so I'm just theorycrafting here. I think that good strategy and lack of a-move comes when there are units whose usefulness in a battle is very sensitive to their position. And I think this is especially true for units that take time and effort to set up properly. In SC1, tanks, lurkers, reavers, weak but powerful ranged units, etc were great examples of weak units whose potential to wreak havoc on the enemy increased dramatically with proper timing and placement. Mines properly placed are also a great example of this concept. So far things seem to be very 'mobile' in SC2, especially with units like reapers and the colossus that have the ability to get in, do damage, and get out without putting themselves in too much danger. The enhanced mobility of units in SC2 seems to open up many more avenues for movement, which IMO in a RTS game can serve to reduce the level of strategy, because conversely, restricting mobility forces the player to carefully consider the path his units are taking or risk losing them. I haven't played SC2, so I'm hoping this worrying is very misplaced. They are less mobile than air units from sc1, like shuttle reaver for example. | ||
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Gedrah
465 Posts
- Mass mutas - Mass speedlots - Mass roaches\hydras - Mass bionics Out of all of the games I've been seeing and playing I only seen high-tech units (mech, ultras, colossus, void rays, even tier 1 units like Sentry) very infrequently. Above-average players that are ALSO creative are relatively rare. Most of you are looking to these forums to help come up with builds, right? Try some yourself :D a lot of these new, non-BW units are very, very good. But right now it's about peen so a lot of folks are still playing like they would on ICCUP. Find a weakness, abuse it, reap high win%, lose to any player that scouts you and counters your silly macro rush. Defending is stronger than attacking in SC2 for a variety of reasons, good players won't lose to attack-moving unless they are behind in unit count due to not scouting and getting caught by brain-dead rushes. | ||
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LordLastDay
34 Posts
On February 22 2010 03:35 Gedrah wrote: I've seen a handful (up to 30-40) games via live stream and noticed a few trends so they must be representative of the game as a whole. J\K bro but only like 10,000 people are in the beta and most of the "good" players among those are just copycats. What do you see every game? - Mass mutas - Mass speedlots - Mass roaches\hydras - Mass bionics Out of all of the games I've been seeing and playing I only seen high-tech units (mech, ultras, colossus, void rays, even tier 1 units like Sentry) very infrequently. Above-average players that are ALSO creative are relatively rare. Most of you are looking to these forums to help come up with builds, right? Try some yourself :D a lot of these new, non-BW units are very, very good. I've seen a Phoenix lift a Queen with Void Rays killing it. I've seen 3 Colossi take out buildings by dancing back and forth on a cliff to keep the opponent in his base. I've seen Sentry use two Force Fields to stop Banelings just before impact, and then a bunch of Stalkers and a Colossus squished them over the block while not losing a single unit. Try watching the rank 1-5 guys. People like Louder do a lot of crazy stuff. Dayvie (David Kim) being a dev knows a ton of crazy tricks, too. Expect lots of Banelings and Motherships, Hallucinations and other crazy.  | ||
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Starstuff
Croatia60 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
Honestly, though, I have been quite impressed with the speed at which people are becoming proficient at spell / FF / attack / retreat micro. I'm excited as to what the future holds. | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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N3rV[Green]
United States1935 Posts
Hellions look like too much fun, but again will only become so once people start playing with them in custom games and such. Have no fear of microless starcraft for that is impossible, I mean honestly, give a unit to boxer and he will micro it to hell, just cause he can whether it's sc1 or 2 xD | ||
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zekie
Canada380 Posts
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