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On February 07 2010 23:23 lolaloc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2010 23:08 Archaic wrote: I don't really like the whole "ability" concept in attacking. In BW, all abilities are supplemental, but with abilities like Cleave, it just doesn't feel right, to use an ability in order to kill things faster, as directly as it seems right now (I guess similar to Lunge for zealots). The Protoss Archon in Broodwar had "Cleave" right?
It's more along the lines of giving a dragoon multishot. We're used to abilities being supplementary -- things like psionic storm and irridiate, not so much psuedo-passive adrenal-glands (in the form of ultracleave). I'd rather have units get abilities that augment mobility or add a new layer of depth, not simply get more damage.
That's one of those things I expect to get scrapped or nerfed once beta comes out.
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What I want from blizzard is a defined intended role for each of the 3 T3 zerg units. Right now this is what I get from them:
Lurker: Anti small ground units, eating them up with splash siege ability with range upgrade countered by air, siege tanks, thors (dunno if any of the P ground counters them)
Ultra: Anti small ground units, eating them up with cleave and high armour Siege ability with headbutt damage vs buildings Countered by air, siege tanks, thors (dunno if any of the P ground counters them)
Broodlord: Anti large ground units, eating them up with mantaling surround Siege ability because of long range countered by air and thors protected by some small-ground
bit of a trend here? yes it's simplified, but it gets the point across, (and thors are still a stupid unit)
edit: I realised it may be a bit harsh on the thor, so here's my reasoning for the counters spelled out
lurkers: anything with a large amount of health taking up a large space by definition will role over lurkers unless you've got massively overwhelming numbers
ultras: thor = the spelled out perfect counter, as they use their 500 damage + stun retardo rockets to essentially nullify your ultras
Broodlord: thor has the same GTA range as the broodlord ATG range (or more), so just keep a few marines or w/e to clean up the mantalings being spawned, and keep the thors target firing the broodlords. The main advantage of broodlords is how hard it is to advance into range of to attack them with ground, because of all the manta-ling fodder being thrown between you and them, not an issue with thors.
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As to the Reaver -> Colossus. There's something I just can't stress enough:
BOOMBOOM >>> PEWPEW
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^must he turn pink when hes firing?
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On February 09 2010 03:06 Wire wrote: ^must he turn pink when hes firing?
Yes, that's how science works, duh...
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On February 07 2010 23:08 Archaic wrote: I don't really like the whole "ability" concept in attacking. In BW, all abilities are supplemental, but with abilities like Cleave, it just doesn't feel right, to use an ability in order to kill things faster, as directly as it seems right now (I guess similar to Lunge for zealots).
....
Siegetank Firebat Reaver Spidermines Archon Lurker Corsair Devourer (somewhat)
Yeah, this *cleaving/ae-dmg* thing is totally new in sc2 and wasn't in SC1 at all... ... ...
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One unit I'm kinda concerned about is the Ghost. Because of the new "smart-casting" thing it should be very easy to get an army of ghost and just smart-cast/snipe down an entire army of T1 units or just smart-cast/EMP a bunch of Protoss units/spellcasters. I can already imagine some semi-cheese strats abusing the smart-casting capability in SC2.
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On February 09 2010 02:30 Shiladie wrote: What I want from blizzard is a defined intended role for each of the 3 T3 zerg units. Right now this is what I get from them:
Lurker: Anti small ground units, eating them up with splash siege ability with range upgrade countered by air, siege tanks, thors (dunno if any of the P ground counters them)
Ultra: Anti small ground units, eating them up with cleave and high armour Siege ability with headbutt damage vs buildings Countered by air, siege tanks, thors (dunno if any of the P ground counters them)
Broodlord: Anti large ground units, eating them up with mantaling surround Siege ability because of long range countered by air and thors protected by some small-ground
bit of a trend here? yes it's simplified, but it gets the point across, (and thors are still a stupid unit)
edit: I realised it may be a bit harsh on the thor, so here's my reasoning for the counters spelled out
lurkers: anything with a large amount of health taking up a large space by definition will role over lurkers unless you've got massively overwhelming numbers
ultras: thor = the spelled out perfect counter, as they use their 500 damage + stun retardo rockets to essentially nullify your ultras
Broodlord: thor has the same GTA range as the broodlord ATG range (or more), so just keep a few marines or w/e to clean up the mantalings being spawned, and keep the thors target firing the broodlords. The main advantage of broodlords is how hard it is to advance into range of to attack them with ground, because of all the manta-ling fodder being thrown between you and them, not an issue with thors. goliath is a good counter to most zerg units in sc1 i don't see how you can judge all this without playing the beta
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On February 07 2010 06:19 Quixoticism wrote:There are some things that definitely have their similarities. (cmon, propellers in space?) The first StarCraft was criticized for looking like Warcraft in space and then they made some changes, why can't it happen again? And I'm not saying I hate the game, SC2 is my #1 game I'm looking forward to. I can't wait to play it. I just think there are a few things that can be made to feel more like StarCraft. I also think that the Viking would become alot cooler if they reversed how it worked and had GtA and AtG only attacks. It would help them fill the role of the goliath with the mobility of going into air mode with a weak Wraith-like AtG attack.
Funny.
Mutas and gargoyles, Zealots and Demon Hunter, the list goes on...
On February 07 2010 03:35 Bash wrote: I'm really missing the spider mine, as they really defined Starcraft for me in many ways. Without them I can't see the same awesome positional strategy that happens in TvP (and in a less awesome way in TvT) happening in SC2 and I fear it'll turn into just another "here's a bunch of guys of this race and here's a bunch of guys of this race, now let's watch them run at eachother" matchup we see in every RTS known to man. I want terran to be slow but also able to cover a ton of ground.
When you think about it, Vulture could easily be the single most spectacular and game breaking unit in SC1, followed by the Reaver. How many games got every spectator shouting after one single mine killed 10 workers and 5 hydras?
I wouldn't mind at all the Vulture being gone if it was being replaced by something as interesting. Unfortunately, the Hellion has to be the most boring unit idea in the whole Starcraft universe, but Reapers' timed mines can be a good replacement for the spider mines. Only time will tell.
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quix : there were propellors in sc1 , a doodad on space terrain i believe
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