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On June 15 2010 04:41 kajeus wrote:
I dunno... in most of the games Day9 casted with this build, the protoss player was almost always around long enough to build colossi. They scouted mass marine and just ignored it for 5+ minutes. One guy even made immortals...
That one guy who made immortals was HuK, who is probably one of the top protoss players around right now, so don't say that like the players these replays were against were bad, it was high level tournament play. And i think(although i'm not suggesting to be correct), that he was getting them as a short term solution to the bunker(possible wall off) as in the previous game there was a wall off with 2 supply depots that really broke his DT rush. Especially since he scouted and saw that the terran player was using approximately the same build as the previous game. At no point in any game was 'mass marine scouted and ignored for 5+ minutes' you need to take into consideration the protoss players' builds, when they have committed to say a 4 gate push, the resources that requires to produce from 4 gates on one base to try and nail a good timing window, pretty much screws your ability to quickly tech to HT's with storm, or colossus with or without upgrades, for both you're looking at 2 more tech buildings and 1 required research 1 optional. Now if you've not done any economic damage with your push, you're behind(obviously) you don't have the time to stop unit production to allow for such a big tech switch. Your options when you realise you can't push when you planned are to try and contain them in their base, or fall back and play defensively. As demonstrated the contain failed in the replay we saw, so falling back without taking casualties is the only thing you can try.
As for the 'in most of the games Day9 casted with this build, the protoss player was almost always around long enough to build colossi', with the state of the dare i say it 'current metagame' rushing colossus is not a common plan against terran, due to the popularity of terran mech, other questions would be; what do you do while rushing to colossus, to prevent yourself from being pushed early? I know the terran has a starport and a reactor available on a barracks, so if he scouts the colossus rush what can i do against the fast massing of vikings? If my colossus fails, how can i transition out of it, or is my fast colossus essentially an all in?
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Does anyone know how one would save an episode as an audio or a video file so that I could put it on an mp3 player or an ipod? I think that audacity would do it, but you have to run the entire episode while recording for that, and I think audacity costs money anyways.
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On June 15 2010 10:49 Newguy wrote:
Does anyone know how one would save an episode as an audio or a video file so that I could put it on an mp3 player or an ipod? I think that audacity would do it, but you have to run the entire episode while recording for that, and I think audacity costs money anyways.
Go to Day[9]'s BlipTV page. You can download the videos there (it's in FLV format though so you will need some converting for your iPod).
And no, Audacity does not cost money.
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I cant be certain because my memory for songs is awful, but I think the song you played for help identifying it at the start is Kumomi by Nujabe
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happend to stop my stream 
![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/2iawkyx.jpg)
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Day you rock, thanks for answering my question tonight, ill tune in the same time tomorrow.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 11:36 StalinRusH wrote:happend to stop my stream
this.
I totally am digging the +1 armor chargelot and high templar build against the MarineGhostMedivac type play in Daily 135. With ideal micro you could blow a terran to pieces. Storm on the marines, guardian shield, 1-2 FF's, feedback). However, there are a few things I want to look into about this build:
First, is there even enough gas off of one base to do this? Charge + a few sentries (guardian shield is a must) + TC + Templar Archives + High templars is a boat load of gas. Feels like you'd have to go 2nd gas before cyber to pull that off. Also, it feels vunerable to a banshee swap up, or banshee maruader, or even a mixed marinemaruadermedivac. You have a moderately harder time scouting w/o a robotics facility (maybe halluc), and you don't exactly have that much gas to crank out stalkers.
Also, is there any way to exploit the terran rushing for tech and tech structures? It feels like there should be a away, maybe blink stalkers into expand/colollus. Anyways, EPIC cast, dying to see part 2 of mass queens.
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I would've liked to see some Point Defense Drones or Hunter-Seeker Missiles. BRAT_OK had the tech, and even buying as many medivacs as he did (which seemed excessive; were they at the back of his army instead of the front he wouldn't have had to replace them so often) he didn't use all his gas/geysers.
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okay just stating for the record i'm watching episode 135 ondemand and this is the funniest opening ever lol
the music was icing on the cake and also i love bratok
keep it up man, much nerd love
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On June 15 2010 12:51 AJ- wrote:
okay just stating for the record i'm watching episode 135 ondemand and this is the funniest opening ever lol
the music was icing on the cake and also i love bratok
keep it up man, much nerd love
omg i am watching it now and dying laughing as well. lol so epic
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Inter-cast question RE: Feedback vs. marine-ghost-medivac: Why not put feedback on the medivacs? Zealots have a hp/shield ratio of 2:1, rather than 1:1 for stalker/sentry/templar, even before you consider the fact that shields don't benefit from your 2 armor. Why not just eat EMP and steal healing - if you feedback a medivac with only 50 energy, that's 150 hp that the Terran army will never see, plus 50 damage to the medivac itself. And that's at only 25% of a medivac's energy capacity! Feedback on a 200 energy medivac denies 600hp and may kill the unit outright!
As an alternative to templar, +armor cealots with phoenix, which can shoot at medivacs and pick up ghosts, are more mobile than templar, are not made of paper, and use much less gas that you can then divert to more sentries. If you manage to grab the bottom of the Terran ramp, phoenix can attempt to intercept attempts to fly out of the main.
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On June 15 2010 14:12 01d55 wrote:
Inter-cast question RE: Feedback vs. marine-ghost-medivac: Why not put feedback on the medivacs? Zealots have a hp/shield ratio of 2:1, rather than 1:1 for stalker/sentry/templar, even before you consider the fact that shields don't benefit from your 2 armor. Why not just eat EMP and steal healing - if you feedback a medivac with only 50 energy, that's 150 hp that the Terran army will never see, plus 50 damage to the medivac itself. And that's at only 25% of a medivac's energy capacity! Feedback on a 200 energy medivac denies 600hp and may kill the unit outright!
As an alternative to templar, +armor cealots with phoenix, which can shoot at medivacs and pick up ghosts, are more mobile than templar, are not made of paper, and use much less gas that you can then divert to more sentries. If you manage to grab the bottom of the Terran ramp, phoenix can attempt to intercept attempts to fly out of the main.
The problem with "eating the EMP and then feedbacking the medivacs" is if you eat EMP, how exactly can you still feedback? And if you somehow still have energy on your templar because of a few poorly placed EMPs, that energy would be much more useful feedbacking the ghosts for later engagements or simply storming.
The thing about EMP is it's so versatile; it's useful against every protoss counter to it. Against high templar with feedback, it eliminates their energy, rendering the templar useless. Against dark templar, EMP reveals them, so the terran don't even have to waste a scan or two to eliminate them. Sure, you could say that wasting dark templar to get rid of an EMP is a worthy trade, but dark templar are only 25/25 cheaper than ghosts and require far more tech to get to, so your opponent will have far more ghosts than you have dark templar (and for far longer, so will have multiple EMPs).
Against robo tech, EMP drastically reduces the effectiveness of immortals and reveals observers; obviously colossi seem to be a great counter to a ghost/marine army, but the question is can a protoss get to them in time, and will a 1 base protoss army with 1-2 colossus (likely without range) even be enough to stop the incoming push?
Against a stargate, as you suggest, EMP still does wonders. Phoenixes obviously need energy to pick up ghosts, and ghosts can eliminate that energy with EMP. Further, marines (especially stimmed marines) make short work of phoenixes, and phoenixes are not cheap. Also, attempting to target the ghosts to pick them up in the ball is a task itself; more likely the phoenixes will end up picking off the medivacs and leaving the real threat undeterred.
The best counters to the marine/ghost ball seem to be chargelots, colossi, and carriers (lawl). However, I'm not even sure charge would come out in time, and a huge force of marines against a mostly zealot army can stim and retreat rapidly; even a few marauders with conc shells in there would probably destroy the protoss army. Further, the Terran can even spot up cliffs with the medivacs, so defensive positions for the protoss are difficult to maintain. Even sentries spamming force fields on the ramps can be easily overcome by simply loading up the medivacs and unloading at the bottom/top of the ramp.
Basically, I just feel EMP is too versatile against protoss; removing cloak, energy, and shields altogether is such a powerful ability to have, especially instant cast in an area of effect.
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On June 15 2010 15:52 Yay wrote:
The problem with "eating the EMP and then feedbacking the medivacs" is if you eat EMP, how exactly can you still feedback? And if you somehow still have energy on your templar because of a few poorly placed EMPs, that energy would be much more useful feedbacking the ghosts for later engagements or simply storming.
The thing about EMP is it's so versatile; it's useful against every protoss counter to it. Against high templar with feedback, it eliminates their energy, rendering the templar useless. Against dark templar, EMP reveals them, so the terran don't even have to waste a scan or two to eliminate them. Sure, you could say that wasting dark templar to get rid of an EMP is a worthy trade, but dark templar are only 25/25 cheaper than ghosts and require far more tech to get to, so your opponent will have far more ghosts than you have dark templar (and for far longer, so will have multiple EMPs).
It helps if you don't have everything bunched up or in one control group there, comanche.
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The build BratOK is using vs the protoss players in this cast is one that I myself used months ago. It is hard countered by 4 gate zeal/sentry, and that is the sole reason I stopped using it 
Sure it works vs 4 gate stalker, but 4 gate stalker is pretty bad compared to just massing as many zealots and sentries as you can. Not sure what the timing for the protoss push is, but it always felt like something around 10-12 zealots and 4-6 sentries.
Really surprised it wasn't mentioned at all. You don't even need a special upgrade or whatnot, just guardian shield and pretty much attack move.
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On June 15 2010 12:13 Severedevil wrote:
I would've liked to see some Point Defense Drones or Hunter-Seeker Missiles. BRAT_OK had the tech, and even buying as many medivacs as he did (which seemed excessive; were they at the back of his army instead of the front he wouldn't have had to replace them so often) he didn't use all his gas/geysers.
PDDs aren't particularly good against stalkers early on. with no upgrades, stalkers do 10 damage per shot, so each PDD prevents 200 damage. a medivac heals 13HP per second and costs half as much gas, so if they stay alive for around 8 seconds in a fight, they're a better investment. plus, they allow your marines to stim more frequently.
the other main issue is that if the protoss sees ravens coming he can just switch to a more zealot-heavy composition.
PDDs scale up in usefulness as the game goes on, because you have to start making vikings to deal with colossi (forcing the protoss to either have more stalkers or make phoenixes), you start adding marauders which stalkers get a bonus against, stalker damage starts increasing with upgrades, and marines start dying so fast medivacs can't keep up. so now you're talking more like 16 damage a shot being prevented, which is 320 per PDD, and keeping those vikings alive is almost invaluable because it's really what makes bio v colossi viable.
but in the games day9 was reviewing, it never really got that far, the protoss just lost to the first timing push.
as an aside, i think there are situations when fast PDD is awesome, just not when you're opening marines against protoss.
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EMP vs. Medivacs is usually less effective, because the Medivacs are usually out of mana anyways and work with each tick of energy they get. Ghosts (and much worse: Thors!) on the other hand have to charge up to be able to spend their energy and thus you can kill off much more energy with one feedback. Also there are more Medivacs than Ghosts usually.
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Hey Mr. 9, do you think 129 can definitely be fixed and uploaded eventually? Or is it just FUBAR? Would really love to see it, enjoying the rest though
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why have no one even as much as talked about the "Day9 vs Tasteless" Showmatch arranged by Husky, that he talked about in the Sen Episode 125 o_0?
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On June 15 2010 21:02 SmoKim wrote:
why have no one even as much as talked about the "Day9 vs Tasteless" Showmatch arranged by Husky, that he talked about in the Sen Episode 125 o_0?
where can we watch it? D:
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i48.tinypic.com/34pibgp.jpg)
