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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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Slashdot: The LAN-play question has been a major issue. What are you doing to facilitate gameplay between people who are in the same room? Rob Pardo: There are definitely some things we are investigating. Whether or not they will be in at launch, I don't know. I really think that the vast majority of people wont have an issue. Even if you look at Warcraft 3, which did have LAN play, the vast, vast majority of people played on Battle.net and that was what, seven years ago? So I think that it is a very small percentage of people that will be affected, and only a small percentage of the time. That said, we are looking at some technology that would allow us to detect a peer-to-peer connection if we detect something like a high latency over a certain amount. Unfortunately, this would only be able to work for custom games, since we need to ensure the accuracy of competitive or ladder games via Battle.net.
....seriously retarded
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Slashdot: With World of Warcraft, there are regional server groupings. How is Battle.net going to integrate with different parts of the world?
Rob Pardo: I believe the current plan is to do a similar approach to the way WoW is set up, so there will be large regional breakdowns. Hopefully in the future we will even have the ability for you to move around, but that isn't decided yet.
If I understood this part correctly, this is bad news. Very bad news.
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On August 25 2009 13:25 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote + Slashdot: The LAN-play question has been a major issue. What are you doing to facilitate gameplay between people who are in the same room? Rob Pardo: There are definitely some things we are investigating. Whether or not they will be in at launch, I don't know. I really think that the vast majority of people wont have an issue. Even if you look at Warcraft 3, which did have LAN play, the vast, vast majority of people played on Battle.net and that was what, seven years ago? So I think that it is a very small percentage of people that will be affected, and only a small percentage of the time. That said, we are looking at some technology that would allow us to detect a peer-to-peer connection if we detect something like a high latency over a certain amount. Unfortunately, this would only be able to work for custom games, since we need to ensure the accuracy of competitive or ladder games via Battle.net.
....seriously retarded
I think that means ranked matches are not lan.
But if you want to do a UMS that is just a normal map with normal rules (like an obs map today) I think you would be set.
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i really hope they dont fuck up lan
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On August 25 2009 13:27 lepape wrote:Show nested quote +Slashdot: With World of Warcraft, there are regional server groupings. How is Battle.net going to integrate with different parts of the world?
Rob Pardo: I believe the current plan is to do a similar approach to the way WoW is set up, so there will be large regional breakdowns. Hopefully in the future we will even have the ability for you to move around, but that isn't decided yet. If I understood this part correctly, this is bad news. Very bad news. wait, so if i want to play SCII with someone outside my area I won't be able to?
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United States12235 Posts
On August 25 2009 13:32 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 13:27 lepape wrote:Slashdot: With World of Warcraft, there are regional server groupings. How is Battle.net going to integrate with different parts of the world?
Rob Pardo: I believe the current plan is to do a similar approach to the way WoW is set up, so there will be large regional breakdowns. Hopefully in the future we will even have the ability for you to move around, but that isn't decided yet. If I understood this part correctly, this is bad news. Very bad news. wait, so if i want to play SCII with someone outside my area I won't be able to?
You still can, but it's not easy. You have to modify a text file (realmlist.wtf) to be able to login to server clusters in other regions. They really should stick with the current gateway functionality.
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i dont think they'd be THAT stupid lazz, and before everyone has a hissy fit and starts shannanaganing (totally a word) about it, we know next to nothing about it and sc1 had uswest, useast, asai and europe obviously, but after it a while it was kinda 'decided' on the server for the best players etc.
edit: just read the post before mine... really? Source?
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United States12235 Posts
Source? You mean C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\WTF folder?
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On August 25 2009 13:38 Ftrunkz wrote: i dont think they'd be THAT stupid lazz, and before everyone has a hissy fit and starts shannanaganing (totally a word) about it, we know next to nothing about it and sc1 had uswest, useast, asai and europe obviously, but after it a while it was kinda 'decided' on the server for the best players etc.
edit: just read the post before mine... really? Source?
I dunno, the way it was worded made it seemed like there'd be more than the big 4 (asia, USwest/east and euro). like at least several servers few country. I hope that's not the case..
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United States12235 Posts
Here's some more info on how it works. I can understand why they might want to do something similar for Bnet2.0, especially since they've already integrated it:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Realmlist.wtf
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United States22883 Posts
. Even if you look at Warcraft 3, which did have LAN play, the vast, vast majority of people played on Battle.net and that was what, seven years ago?d
Yes, the vast majority of people played online, but there's also people who played online AND offline. As a college student, of course I'll be online most of the time, but it's not very hard to think of situations where I won't have access or it'll be more convenient to play on LAN. >.>
I'm not sure how many people here follow CS, but when Steam first released, there was no LAN version of CS. Every copy had to authenticate and play through the Steam servers. One of the first tournaments to follow this 1.6 release was CxG, which was a disaster for plenty of reasons besides the LAN deficiency, but the online dependency destroyed the internet at the hotel they were using. Valve actually had a LAN version of CS, but they didn't make it available to CxG so they were screwed (again, even with offline CS, CxG was a rotten tournament.) A Steam update released during the tournament and they simply couldn't play anything because the internet was so choked. They ended up cancelling the tournament and just holding a few exhibition matches.
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god i hate how rob pardo makes comments on how the "vast majority" of wc3 players used b.net over lan when blizzard never even collected stats on their lan usage
i call steaming smelly bullshit
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hmm, i think you have to consider the number of people with illegal copies of wc3 as well
and like someone said, we know relatively nothing about the details of this this
you really can't draw any solid conclusions
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United States12235 Posts
On August 25 2009 14:08 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: god i hate how rob pardo makes comments on how the "vast majority" of wc3 players used b.net over lan when blizzard never even collected stats on their lan usage
i call steaming smelly bullshit
You don't know that though. It's easy to make slanted statistics either way, too. For example, if you look at the total number of copies sold versus the total number of CD-Keys that have created accounts on Battle.net, let's say you have a number around 99%. So he could say that would mean 90% of players used Battle.net over LAN, which statistically would be true. However, that wouldn't count the number of people who don't play any kind of multiplayer at all, or the people who play Bnet and LAN, or in what frequency. If they're just looking at those kinds of statistics, then they'd interpret that to mean "well 99% of our players play on Battle.net (or more realistically, have played on Battle.net at one point, or at least created an account) so we're not really harming anyone."
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United States7166 Posts
yeah seriously rob pardo pisses me off..where does he get the idea that almost nobody plays on LANs
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On August 25 2009 14:40 Zelniq wrote: yeah seriously rob pardo pisses me off..where does he get the idea that almost nobody plays on LANs maybe he never got invited to a lan party and this will be his revenge.
i already read lan wasn't gonna in sc2 and im trying to cope with it.
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atleast the bit where the d3 dev talks about how rob pardo is aware that people use lan for tourneys and stuff in encouraging.
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It will probably have an americas server, europe, and asia
bnet will autodetect lan if in custom games ?
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Good interview as expected from Slashdot. Content-wise I don't like some of the replies though, like the whole LAN debacle. :|
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On August 25 2009 14:56 x89titan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 14:40 Zelniq wrote: yeah seriously rob pardo pisses me off..where does he get the idea that almost nobody plays on LANs maybe he never got invited to a lan party and this will be his revenge. Seriously. I play DOTA through LAN more often than not.
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First of all, can someone explain the point of Gateways in Battle.net? Is it because of server overload or something? I honestly never liked Gateways, because it seperates the community too much.
Second, can they not just do what steam does? It is fairly clear they want to make a platform similar to steam/XBox live. Both services allow lan play through their service. For example, steam allows you to sign in an offline mode, and then you can only see games on your LAN. This is great because you do not require internet connection, while Valve knows you are using a legal copy as the steam accounts only take legal cd keys.
Rob Pardo is a little irritating. Maybe he has never heard of Dreamhack?
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It would suck if the realms were hard coded and could only be switched with some third party world switcher app. I like how international this community is. It would suck to be stuck playing stupid immature americans all day. And before you claim that americans aren't immature, remember it's going to be like xbox live on battle.net for at least a year after release.
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On August 26 2009 00:46 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 14:56 x89titan wrote:On August 25 2009 14:40 Zelniq wrote: yeah seriously rob pardo pisses me off..where does he get the idea that almost nobody plays on LANs maybe he never got invited to a lan party and this will be his revenge. Seriously. I play DOTA through LAN more often than not.
Me too. But I'm pretty sure that this would not be the case if we had B.net 2.0 already.
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On August 25 2009 13:27 lepape wrote:Show nested quote +Slashdot: With World of Warcraft, there are regional server groupings. How is Battle.net going to integrate with different parts of the world?
Rob Pardo: I believe the current plan is to do a similar approach to the way WoW is set up, so there will be large regional breakdowns. Hopefully in the future we will even have the ability for you to move around, but that isn't decided yet. If I understood this part correctly, this is bad news. Very bad news. Not really. If it's like WOW, then you should be able to play in the regions of your choosing. And you don't have to create characters or anything so it's not like you're limited to a certain number of regions. What he's saying is that, for random play, you'll be playing within WOW-like region divisions. But they've also stated how easy it is to play with friends. I don't see any problems, limitations, or anything remotely "bad" here.
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I sure hope you have access to switch between main area gateways such as "asia" and "europe" to able to play with people all over the world, just like you can in Starcraft.
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On August 25 2009 14:56 x89titan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 14:40 Zelniq wrote: yeah seriously rob pardo pisses me off..where does he get the idea that almost nobody plays on LANs maybe he never got invited to a lan party and this will be his revenge. i already read lan wasn't gonna in sc2 and im trying to cope with it.
C'mon now, I lived in the Philippines before moving here to the U.S. I don't think there's a single legit copy of any software in the entire country.
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On August 25 2009 13:25 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote + Slashdot: The LAN-play question has been a major issue. What are you doing to facilitate gameplay between people who are in the same room? Rob Pardo: There are definitely some things we are investigating. Whether or not they will be in at launch, I don't know. I really think that the vast majority of people wont have an issue. Even if you look at Warcraft 3, which did have LAN play, the vast, vast majority of people played on Battle.net and that was what, seven years ago? So I think that it is a very small percentage of people that will be affected, and only a small percentage of the time. That said, we are looking at some technology that would allow us to detect a peer-to-peer connection if we detect something like a high latency over a certain amount. Unfortunately, this would only be able to work for custom games, since we need to ensure the accuracy of competitive or ladder games via Battle.net.
....seriously retarded
wow, it pisses me off just reading his answer
seriously, if he gave me that answer I would want to slap him.
It's like the bullshit answers corrupt politicians give, I get the exact same feel from it
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who cares? not playing with australians means no lag for me, i never once felt sad about not being able to play wow on american servers, who cares, seriously.
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On August 26 2009 04:50 Catch]22 wrote: who cares? not playing with australians means no lag for me, i never once felt sad about not being able to play wow on american servers, who cares, seriously.
What if you want to play something that is not very popular (UMS or FFA), or you are simply playing in hours where there is few players from your region. What about tournaments or clans that have players from diferent regions?
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On August 26 2009 05:01 Polis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2009 04:50 Catch]22 wrote: who cares? not playing with australians means no lag for me, i never once felt sad about not being able to play wow on american servers, who cares, seriously. What if you want to play something that is not very popular (UMS or FFA), or you are simply playing in hours where there is few players from your region. What about tournaments or clans that have players from diferent regions?
what if koreans continue to dominate and you want to practice against them to improve? there are lots of situations where a player might want to play outside of just his neighborhood.
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Sounds good with the peer to peer for lan and not server-client.
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On August 25 2009 13:42 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 13:38 Ftrunkz wrote: i dont think they'd be THAT stupid lazz, and before everyone has a hissy fit and starts shannanaganing (totally a word) about it, we know next to nothing about it and sc1 had uswest, useast, asai and europe obviously, but after it a while it was kinda 'decided' on the server for the best players etc.
edit: just read the post before mine... really? Source? I dunno, the way it was worded made it seemed like there'd be more than the big 4 (asia, USwest/east and euro). like at least several servers few country. I hope that's not the case..
Yeah well I doubt we will be using an Aus server, we will be on Asia or something.
Which kinda sucks in one way cos it's yet another game we will have to put up with 350+ ping on
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Canada9720 Posts
On August 26 2009 01:03 Sharp-eYe wrote: First of all, can someone explain the point of Gateways in Battle.net? Is it because of server overload or something? I honestly never liked Gateways, because it seperates the community too much.
the gateways were introduced in maybe 2001 or something (i don't remember the year), but before they changed things, on peak nights server splits would become pretty frequent, and it'd be almost impossible to chat in the channels. having no idea of the costs involved, i still think blizzard could definitely have 'one' gateway, but it must be cheaper to manage 4 smaller ones
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gateways keep players in their regions allowing you to have normal ping in each game which is good enough reason for having gateways.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 26 2009 08:25 bLah. wrote: gateways keep players in their regions allowing you to have normal ping in each game which is good enough reason for having gateways. The thing is, if games are handled peer-to-peer instead of client-server, this becomes irrelevant, because the gateways aren't in the equation at all. All that matters is the distance between the players and their connections, at which point, all gateways are doing is preventing you from playing people outside your region.
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Why dont they put SC2 to download in a site and make us pay for our accs already like wow.
That way you could technically have it in all lan houses and other shitz
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On August 26 2009 01:03 Sharp-eYe wrote: First of all, can someone explain the point of Gateways in Battle.net? Is it because of server overload or something? I honestly never liked Gateways, because it seperates the community too much.
Second, can they not just do what steam does? It is fairly clear they want to make a platform similar to steam/XBox live. Both services allow lan play through their service. For example, steam allows you to sign in an offline mode, and then you can only see games on your LAN. This is great because you do not require internet connection, while Valve knows you are using a legal copy as the steam accounts only take legal cd keys.
Rob Pardo is a little irritating. Maybe he has never heard of Dreamhack?
Steam offline mode does not work that way. It's like 'appear offline' from live messenger. My mates play left4dead on my steam account all the time. They just set it to offline mode so people on my friends list don't try to chat with him or join the games he's in.
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United States22883 Posts
On August 26 2009 11:25 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2009 01:03 Sharp-eYe wrote: First of all, can someone explain the point of Gateways in Battle.net? Is it because of server overload or something? I honestly never liked Gateways, because it seperates the community too much.
Second, can they not just do what steam does? It is fairly clear they want to make a platform similar to steam/XBox live. Both services allow lan play through their service. For example, steam allows you to sign in an offline mode, and then you can only see games on your LAN. This is great because you do not require internet connection, while Valve knows you are using a legal copy as the steam accounts only take legal cd keys.
Rob Pardo is a little irritating. Maybe he has never heard of Dreamhack? Steam offline mode does not work that way. It's like 'appear offline' from live messenger. My mates play left4dead on my steam account all the time. They just set it to offline mode so people on my friends list don't try to chat with him or join the games he's in. No. There's offline mode in Friends, and then there's a separate Steam Offline mode for LANs. Steam > File > Go Offline > restart Steam. It wasn't in the original build of Steam though.
Offline Mode allows you to play games through Steam without reconnecting to the Steam Network every time you wish to play - this is particularly useful if you do not plan on playing over the internet and would prefer not to download new updates for your single-player games.
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Jibba you are mistaken. There always was a Lan-mode in steam, there just wasnt an offline mode. And to use the offline mode you have to have been online one time so you can log in and then choose to go offline.
Steam left beta in September 2003, but the release which added Offline Mode didn’t arrive until March 2004
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Rob Pardo knows that people like LAN. Blizzard is making a huge effort to make "LAN" look bad. In one article he says that its a "footnote" in history like its low tech when its the same TCP/IP that's under battle.net. In this article he says LAN might be for people who are crazy and living in a closet.
Its marketing. He's swaying all the kids who might otherwise think LAN is a necessary feature of a multiplayer game.
They've just gotten greedy after all that WoW money and an easy 25 million from Starcraft 2 isn't enough for them anymore. Now they want to charge for new content and probably popular maps, etc.. And Pardo is making it all look good.
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Pardo needs to start reminding everyone that Hitler created LAN
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Sounds like there'll be LAN functionality eventually implemented through Battle.net, just as Steam does it.
You won't be able to play ranked matches over LAN. What a surprise, but I bet some idiots will whine about that, too.
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On August 25 2009 14:08 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: god i hate how rob pardo makes comments on how the "vast majority" of wc3 players used b.net over lan when blizzard never even collected stats on their lan usage
i call steaming smelly bullshit yea lol, how can they even know this at all. For the first year of wc3 all me and my friends did to play it was go to lan centers to play big 3v3s and 4v4s. At least like 300 games or something. Shit the whole reason I got into computer and competitive gaming was through LAN back on warcraft 2/quake/duke 3d before there was even a bnet. Not to mention all the consoles and arcades that are not internet involved at all.
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Imagine if there's no lan in the progaming scene and every televised progamer match has to be played on battlenet.. It would be a disaster: people trying to PM or guess the game password and mass join. LOL So blizzard has to come up with something good.
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I hope they don't split the regions up as far as making it impossible to play with people from other countries. TF2 does that abit, with Australians only playing Australians, and even if someone from the US joins (and has high latency mind you) the servers boot them (though that's probably more-so a server config).
When Blizzard did their presentation on the friends functionality they stressed the importance of things such as keeping your friends list when new games are released, etc. Well, alot of my friends which I made from SC and D2 are all over the world, so if it were to be split then I'd lose the ability to play with my friends, which seems detrimental to Blizzards plans. If SC1 can pull it off, then I don't see why SC2 (in this age of broadband) can't.
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On August 27 2009 09:40 outrage wrote: Rob Pardo knows that people like LAN. Blizzard is making a huge effort to make "LAN" look bad. In one article he says that its a "footnote" in history like its low tech when its the same TCP/IP that's under battle.net. In this article he says LAN might be for people who are crazy and living in a closet.
Its marketing. He's swaying all the kids who might otherwise think LAN is a necessary feature of a multiplayer game.
They've just gotten greedy after all that WoW money and an easy 25 million from Starcraft 2 isn't enough for them anymore. Now they want to charge for new content and probably popular maps, etc.. And Pardo is making it all look good.
What does lack of LAN have to do with selling new content/maps or greed?
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Rob Pardo is kind of a douchebag. Before this he seemed blunt and honest, even if you didn't like what he said, but now he's just spewing random shit.
The removal of LAN is twofold, one is piracy/limitation of play ability to curb resale of games. If you can only play the game by logging into their service that uses your master account that holds all your games, you can't easily resell that game, and your options of playing without being connected is severely limited so you aren't getting the same experience.
Secondly, it funnels all the players onto Battle.net where they are free to monitor and record usage patterns, system hardware, demographics etc. It's an extremely powerful tool. It sounds tinfoil hattish but it's true, having that sort of access to data is incredibly helpful to them from a business perspective.
I wish he would say these things instead of making ridiculous statements.
As far as LAN play itself, the addition of some sort of low latency mode would probably appease the majority of people. When you are at a LAN you will have to log in with your account, or maybe Blizzard will sell LAN licenses the same way Steam does. From which point you can play the game with "lan latency". Or hopefully there will be no hugely distinguishable difference between online latency and LAN latency. That would obviously be ideal if they could get it that good
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LAN is dying off, I don't see how anyone can argue against it. When I was a kid back in 98 we were attending LAN parties all the time, today that activity is a lot less popular. My youngest brother, that is the same age now as I was back then, rarely attend LAN parties, and he is a big gamer.
Sure, for people in rural areas this is unfortunate, but most gamers tend to live in more populated areas. There are advantages and disadvantages for living out on the countryside.
For people living in South America, South East Asia etc you are pretty much out of luck. You are just too few paying customers for Blizzard to cater to.
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On August 27 2009 23:19 Eury wrote: LAN is dying off, I don't see how anyone can argue against it. When I was a kid back in 98 we were attending LAN parties all the time, today that activity is a lot less popular. My youngest brother, that is the same age now as I was back then, rarely attend LAN parties, and he is a big gamer.
Sure, for people in rural areas this is unfortunate, but most gamers tend to live in more populated areas. There are advantages and disadvantages for living out on the countryside.
For people living in South America, South East Asia etc you are pretty much out of luck. You are just too few paying customers for Blizzard to cater to. Although I agree that the need for internet-less LAN gaming is dying off, I would be careful about confusing that with LAN parties. LAN parties definitely aren't dying off Just more and more of them have internet connections.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 27 2009 16:54 FieryBalrog wrote: Sounds like there'll be LAN functionality eventually implemented through Battle.net, just as Steam does it.
You won't be able to play ranked matches over LAN. What a surprise, but I bet some idiots will whine about that, too. Yeah, belittle a legitimate complaint with total BS, you'll fit right in with Blizzard. Nobody - and I do mean NOBODY - has ever complained about being unable to play ladder/ranked games on LAN.
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On August 27 2009 23:26 Tsagacity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 23:19 Eury wrote: LAN is dying off, I don't see how anyone can argue against it. When I was a kid back in 98 we were attending LAN parties all the time, today that activity is a lot less popular. My youngest brother, that is the same age now as I was back then, rarely attend LAN parties, and he is a big gamer.
Sure, for people in rural areas this is unfortunate, but most gamers tend to live in more populated areas. There are advantages and disadvantages for living out on the countryside.
For people living in South America, South East Asia etc you are pretty much out of luck. You are just too few paying customers for Blizzard to cater to. Although I agree that the need for internet-less LAN gaming is dying off, I would be careful about confusing that with LAN parties. LAN parties definitely aren't dying off  Just more and more of them have internet connections. I meant smaller LAN parties that you have with friends. In the mid to late 90s it wasn't rare that you organized small LAN parties with friends pretty much every weekend, as a good Internet connection was a luxury. For better or worse that tend to be more and more a thing of the past.
Big LAN parties, like Dream Hack, will most likely live on for years to come, because they are pretty much social events more than anything else. And as you said, they got Internet connections.
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On August 28 2009 00:11 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 23:26 Tsagacity wrote:On August 27 2009 23:19 Eury wrote: LAN is dying off, I don't see how anyone can argue against it. When I was a kid back in 98 we were attending LAN parties all the time, today that activity is a lot less popular. My youngest brother, that is the same age now as I was back then, rarely attend LAN parties, and he is a big gamer.
Sure, for people in rural areas this is unfortunate, but most gamers tend to live in more populated areas. There are advantages and disadvantages for living out on the countryside.
For people living in South America, South East Asia etc you are pretty much out of luck. You are just too few paying customers for Blizzard to cater to. Although I agree that the need for internet-less LAN gaming is dying off, I would be careful about confusing that with LAN parties. LAN parties definitely aren't dying off  Just more and more of them have internet connections. I meant smaller LAN parties that you have with friends. In the mid to late 90s it wasn't rare that you organized small LAN parties with friends pretty much every weekend, as a good Internet connection was a luxury. For better or worse that tend to be more and more a thing of the past. Big LAN parties, like Dream Hack, will most likely live on for years to come, because they are pretty much social events more than anything else. And as you said, they got Internet connections. I meant small ones as well.
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On August 28 2009 00:17 Tsagacity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2009 00:11 Eury wrote:On August 27 2009 23:26 Tsagacity wrote:On August 27 2009 23:19 Eury wrote: LAN is dying off, I don't see how anyone can argue against it. When I was a kid back in 98 we were attending LAN parties all the time, today that activity is a lot less popular. My youngest brother, that is the same age now as I was back then, rarely attend LAN parties, and he is a big gamer.
Sure, for people in rural areas this is unfortunate, but most gamers tend to live in more populated areas. There are advantages and disadvantages for living out on the countryside.
For people living in South America, South East Asia etc you are pretty much out of luck. You are just too few paying customers for Blizzard to cater to. Although I agree that the need for internet-less LAN gaming is dying off, I would be careful about confusing that with LAN parties. LAN parties definitely aren't dying off  Just more and more of them have internet connections. I meant smaller LAN parties that you have with friends. In the mid to late 90s it wasn't rare that you organized small LAN parties with friends pretty much every weekend, as a good Internet connection was a luxury. For better or worse that tend to be more and more a thing of the past. Big LAN parties, like Dream Hack, will most likely live on for years to come, because they are pretty much social events more than anything else. And as you said, they got Internet connections. I meant small ones as well.
I can't imagine that being the case if you got access to DSL or better. Sure, they still exist but they are way less popular today, and their popularity will continue to shrink.
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On August 27 2009 22:55 floor exercise wrote: The removal of LAN is twofold, one is piracy/limitation of play ability to curb resale of games. If you can only play the game by logging into their service that uses your master account that holds all your games, you can't easily resell that game, and your options of playing without being connected is severely limited so you aren't getting the same experience.
Secondly, it funnels all the players onto Battle.net where they are free to monitor and record usage patterns, system hardware, demographics etc. It's an extremely powerful tool. It sounds tinfoil hattish but it's true, having that sort of access to data is incredibly helpful to them from a business perspective.
I wish he would say these things instead of making ridiculous statements.
These are the issues laid out exactly. They are removing LAN because they want people to play online using their service so that they can collect useful statistics for their business. They require a CD key to be tied to a master account because they want to kill the used games market just like every other developer - because developers/publishers don't get money from used games. This isn't in itself a bad thing, but people that can't enjoy the game because of this decision have a valid complaint.
I really find it hard to defend Blizzard for this decision. A lot of people are doing it, but ask yourself: what harm is done if LAN is included? Does it affect you at all? You can play online with your roommates all you want, but people that are stuck behind a router or filtering service that they can't control (mainly, people that live on campuses) will be able to enjoy the game too.
Sure, not having LAN will probably make it take longer to pirate the game, but Blizzard could at least say that LAN isn't a launch feature like 100 other things they've mentioned. Honestly, though, this topic of people that have no control over their internet is not some mythical devil's advocate - it is a real problem. Telling everyone that LAN won't be included (even at a later date) is just giving people under bad conditions one more reason not to buy the game in the first place. If the pirates come up with the only LAN-enabled SC2, everyone involved in this debacle will just look like idiots.
Requiring online registration at installation should be good enough to prevent easy piracy, just put LAN into the game.
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On the LAN thingie. Since WC3 beta I have played it via LAN twice for a total of maybe 2-3 hours gametime. Seriously having or not having a LAN option is the least of my concerns.
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On August 28 2009 00:45 DefMatrixUltra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 22:55 floor exercise wrote: The removal of LAN is twofold, one is piracy/limitation of play ability to curb resale of games. If you can only play the game by logging into their service that uses your master account that holds all your games, you can't easily resell that game, and your options of playing without being connected is severely limited so you aren't getting the same experience.
Secondly, it funnels all the players onto Battle.net where they are free to monitor and record usage patterns, system hardware, demographics etc. It's an extremely powerful tool. It sounds tinfoil hattish but it's true, having that sort of access to data is incredibly helpful to them from a business perspective.
I wish he would say these things instead of making ridiculous statements.
Sure, not having LAN will probably make it take longer to pirate the game, but Blizzard could at least say that LAN isn't a launch feature like 100 other things they've mentioned.
The more you restrict a game for legitimate customers, the more people pirate it. See Spore.
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United States7166 Posts
at least half of my games of sc1 were played over LAN, for 9+ years.. 1000+ games
real lan latency and fake iccup/chaos lan latency arent comparable either, lan is definitely faster
as long as they have LAN support in some way, such as having to connect to bnet first, i'll be happy
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I think very few people understand why LAN is such a HUGE issue.
Forget the word LAN. Forget the idea of LAN parties where you're all in the same place. LAN is just TCP/IP, direct connect to a host you or you're friends are running. Its part of the game to begin with. Blizzard isn't not adding it, they're removing it.
Why?
Piracy is, in their own words, a minor concern. Its going to happen anyway.
The only thing removing LAN does is force mainstream players to play on battle.net, view battle.net ads, and pay for battle.net premium content. Premium content? RTSs should not have premium content. There's no good reason to remove TCP/IP direct connect except that blizzard wants to make more money. That's it. And what's happening is something gamers have taken for granted for forever is being pulled and not everyone seems to care.
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Sweden33719 Posts
It should be pointed out that wanting to make more money isn't inherently bad, it's only bad that in the process they are hurting the quality of the game.
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browder is an ass without LAN , SC1 would not have taken off in korea how can net cafes support SC2? do they need a seperate license for each copy of the game on every computer?
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Slashdot did ask the tough questions, which is nice. Too bad they didn't get very good answers.
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On August 29 2009 05:27 FrozenArbiter wrote: It should be pointed out that wanting to make more money isn't inherently bad, it's only bad that in the process they are hurting the quality of the game.
Agreed.
Hopefully a Steam-style offline mode is implemented. It is the only saving grace of this blinded by greed decision making. Because I don't think there is a single rationalization possible or defense as to how this enhances the user experience.
They'll continue to try. I'm hoping the SC strength and wisdom of Korea can enforce some legitimacy out of this, and we'll get something akin to LAN without being online all the time.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 12:33 Elian wrote: They'll continue to try. I'm hoping the SC strength and wisdom of Korea can enforce some legitimacy out of this, and we'll get something akin to LAN without being online all the time. After all these Kespa fiascos, I don't have much faith in the "wisdom" of Korean SC right now.
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On August 29 2009 13:17 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 12:33 Elian wrote: They'll continue to try. I'm hoping the SC strength and wisdom of Korea can enforce some legitimacy out of this, and we'll get something akin to LAN without being online all the time. After all these Kespa fiascos, I don't have much faith in the "wisdom" of Korean SC right now.
Yeah, I suppose so.
Still, it is an industry - I don't think, even if KESPA is ridiculous that Blizzard will entirely ignore the sport that has developed. It's obvious they need LAN in order to play it as they have, or a LAN workaround.
Though, it will be interesting how KESPA Blizzard dynamics play out for the next generation.
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On August 29 2009 16:43 Elian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 13:17 TheYango wrote:On August 29 2009 12:33 Elian wrote: They'll continue to try. I'm hoping the SC strength and wisdom of Korea can enforce some legitimacy out of this, and we'll get something akin to LAN without being online all the time. After all these Kespa fiascos, I don't have much faith in the "wisdom" of Korean SC right now. Yeah, I suppose so. Still, it is an industry - I don't think, even if KESPA is ridiculous that Blizzard will entirely ignore the sport that has developed. It's obvious they need LAN in order to play it as they have, or a LAN workaround. Though, it will be interesting how KESPA Blizzard dynamics play out for the next generation.
Hmmm I found an image that ilustrates how I think it will work.
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