• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:16
CEST 09:16
KST 16:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed11Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll4Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Who will win EWC 2025? RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Starcraft in widescreen A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 667 users

[H] Dealing with the Mothership Core & TvP Mech

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
Thezzy
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands2117 Posts
November 27 2012 22:18 GMT
#1
I've gotten the beta a few days ago and my usual Cloakshee expand into Mech build (see Day9's TvP Mech Daily) which servers me well in Platinum/Diamond has been hammered into the ground, the main reason of which I feel is the Mothership Core.

First of all, normally the Cloakshee Expand pins Protoss to his base and forces a Robo/Observer or Protoss ends up way behind (or just dies).
With the Cloakshees out, I normally get my expansion up and start going into Mech with Banshee support.

In HotS however, just the Mothership Core and 2 Stalkers / 1 Zealot at the front in the early game can already cause a ton of damage and force my Banshee back to help defend. If I am not very careful with my Marines I can straight up lose then and there. At best, the second Banshee forces Protoss to return home so the Mothership Core can detect.
All this can be done while Protoss gets up an expansion.

Even if Protoss does not attack with the Mothership Core, Banshees with Cloak no longer do much of anything, as there will generally always be a Mothership Core out.
Even if it isn't there, Protoss can Chrono it out very quickly and it spawns with enough energy for detection. (and you don't need a Robo for it)
As Mech needs time to get going, I normally rely on my Banshees to buy me that time but now I feel that is no longer possible.

The other difficulty I encountered was that the Mothership Core makes harassment against Mech very powerful because of Recall allowing every Protoss unit to return home.
As soon as I move out, Protoss harasses and Recalls the army when I return to defend or when I hit his base.

I could deal with Warp Prism harass using Banshees and Hellions but the Mothership Core allows a far larger army to do the harassment.

As I still want to go Mech against Protoss I'm at a loss at how to deal with the Mothership Core in the early game and still go for Mech.

1Rax FE seems extremely vulnerable to the Mothership Core + Blink Stalker play I've been seeing on various replays (haven't come across it myself yet...) but I don't want to go mass marine early game as I still prefer Mech.

I've seen some suggestions going for 1/1/1 with Widow Mines and drops and I will be trying that but can I still go Cloakshee Expand into Mech?

I've uploaded a replay, although I should add that my play was rather sloppy in it having only played the beta for a day or two and being thrown off by the MSC, I'm not sure what league/level my opponent was at, as HotS has thrown a GM at me even though I'm only Plat myself and the match results never showed up (endless loading icon).

As for the replay, the early MSC harass really threw me off which showed in my macro for a bit afterward and I think I went to Thor heavy, lacking tanks. The Banshee harass, due to the MSC was pretty much non-existent.
In any case, the replay:

Replay

Any help/advice regarding dealing with the MSC whilst still going/opening Mech would be great.
Playing Terran is like flying down a MULE drop in a marine suit, firing a Gauss Rifle
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
November 28 2012 00:40 GMT
#2
In my experience of playing mech in HotS, I've been playing a style that's much like LastShadow's...I generally open with some kind of fast expand into either a marine/hellion or marine/tank push, while getting up 4 CCs behind widow mines. I also go straight for double armory upgrades before adding on additional factories.

I haven't had a lot of experience with gas first, aggressive openings, but I've found that opening with marines/widow mines is really powerful. In a lot of cases, you get your first 2 mines out at the same time that a stalker and zealot would arrive at your front door. An ebay block will also delay this timing. From here, you can push out and annoy the protoss player and delay the expansion with mines/marines/a few SCVs while getting your own up safely.

Another idea that you might try out is LiquidSea's TvP: http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-521-liquidsea-funky-pvt-style/
I've watched his stream quite a bit, and this style is absolutely awesome. It's basically a FE into fast hellion/banshee, using harassment options to keep protoss pinned back while you get a fast 3rd base up and buy time for a good number of tanks to get out. The only difference in HotS might be adding in a few widow mines after the initial 6 hellions or so to defend. All in all, I would say that going mech in TvP relies on being constantly aggressive and pinning your opponent back, threatening hellion runbys...this should help with the problem of feeling like you're being shut down completely and outmacroed.

Hope this gives some ideas!
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
virgol
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden61 Posts
November 28 2012 05:28 GMT
#3
The only problem is... once u actually manage to get to the midgame/lategame with mech, u just get raped by tempest+templar+mothership deathball anyways
Thezzy
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands2117 Posts
November 28 2012 11:01 GMT
#4
I'll take a look at LiquidSea's TvP, hopefully I can make it work in HotS.
Marine/Widow Mine was something I was looking into, I'll try them out as well.
Playing Terran is like flying down a MULE drop in a marine suit, firing a Gauss Rifle
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
November 28 2012 11:09 GMT
#5
Thanks for the ideas. I'll probably try some of these tomorrow. Hopefully I won't rage at them not working at all.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 44m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 37270
PianO 351
GuemChi 274
zelot 155
Backho 114
NaDa 45
Sharp 39
Sacsri 36
JulyZerg 22
Shine 21
[ Show more ]
Bale 13
Hm[arnc] 8
Dota 2
XcaliburYe293
NeuroSwarm105
ODPixel6
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1457
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King193
Other Games
summit1g11126
SortOf62
Trikslyr27
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2929
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH401
• OhrlRock 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2181
League of Legends
• Stunt463
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
8h 44m
Replay Cast
16h 44m
The PondCast
1d 2h
OSC
1d 5h
WardiTV European League
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
Epic.LAN
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CSO Contender
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Online Event
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
6 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.