|
@mod: make it "awesome" in the headline please ;-)
first of all: the overseer is in a great state as a detector and scouting unit.
but: the overseer is an a weird situation as a spellcaster. the problem is that the overseer is a 0 supply unit so you cant give them strong spells since they would become OP in lategame.
so how about giving the overlord 2 options:
1. morph into the old overseer, which is like the old overseer but remove contamination from it (so its for detection, scouting and has a scoutingspell (changeling). so still 0 supply.
2. morph into the new spellcaster which costs 2 supply (and more gas). since it now costs supply you could actually give it useful spells (for example keep contamination but make it cost less energy). contamination is a very nice strategic spell so i really loved if it could be actually useful. than add 2 other harrassment spells.
as for the supply "problematic": the old overseer gives 8 supply and costs zero, the new overseer still gives 8 supply but costs 2 supply. so no difference in handling the "supply-problematic". just let them give the 8 supply and cost 2 supply.
so it comes down to the possibility of either morphing an overlord into the old overseer for 0 supply with changeling as a spell (possibly a 2nd scouting spell) and the possibility to morph overlords into a 2 supply spellcaster with harrassment spells only (no deathball support spells...again contamination is awesome since you can use it for harrassment but its completely unusable for deathball play).
giving zerg a harrassment spellcaster would be so awesome since right now zerg has 1 single form of non-allin air harrassment which is the mutalisk BUT even then if you want to harrass you will have to completely commit (20+ mutas + upgrades) since otherwise it gets shut down by 2 cannons/turrets/spores and widow mine/few units. with these changes zerg would finally have a harrass unit they could build in low numbers (so non-allin) like terran has its medivac drops, banshees or protoss has its phoenix, warp prisms or oracles, while not buffing the zerg deathball.
zerg dearly needs non-allin harrassment options. other than the suggested overlord/overseer changes would be slight buffs to nydus, tunneling claws and drop which would all open up a completely new and more aggressive zerg playstyle instead of spine infestor turtling.
blizzard statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366705
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Here is my idea about Overseer. Just stay with current form, but rework contaminate thing on building.
Make it as a 50-100HP thingy, that deals some damage to attached building over time, and must be killed to stop building blocking and slow damaging.
|
The thing is that an overseer does its work as a detector and changelings also have their uses. For a 0 supply unit this works well and has little that can be improved upon with regards to the negative supply cost.
Contaminate will never be good on the overseer, since in theory it can be endlessly spammable considering the supply cost.
This is also why I suggest to move contaminate to the corruptor (tweak numbers if needed). It will make the corruptor more versatile and even synergizes with its current function (after destroying collossii, slowing down reinforcements, to name an example).
|
On November 10 2012 21:49 Morphs wrote:
The thing is that an overseer does its work as a detector and changelings also have their uses. For a 0 supply unit this works well and has little that can be improved upon with regards to the negative supply cost.
Contaminate will never be good on the overseer, since in theory it can be endlessly spammable considering the supply cost.
This is also why I suggest to move contaminate to the corruptor (tweak numbers if needed). It will make the corruptor more versatile and even synergizes with its current function (after destroying collossii, slowing down reinforcements, to name an example).
did you even read the OP? i suggest giving overlord 2 options. morph into the old 0 supply overseer and morph into a 2 supply spellcaster (which as 1 of his 3 spells has contaminate).
|
but: the overseer is an a weird situation as a spellcaster. the problem is that the overseer is a 0 supply unit so you cant give them strong spells since they would become OP in lategame.
Then make Overseer cost and give supply at the same time, and give it some cool spells. I fail to see how this could be problematic to implement.
|
On November 10 2012 21:53 Tritanis wrote:Show nested quote +but: the overseer is an a weird situation as a spellcaster. the problem is that the overseer is a 0 supply unit so you cant give them strong spells since they would become OP in lategame. Then make Overseer cost and give supply at the same time, and give it some cool spells. I fail to see how this could be problematic to implement.
which is exactly what i suggested in the OP...maybe read the whole post?
|
United Kingdom12022 Posts
The overseer is actually really good, it's just nobody bothers to play around with the stuff they have.
For example, contaminate can be really amazing, but hardly any pro zergs use it even though it's esentially free.
|
|
|
On November 11 2012 00:14 Qikz wrote:
The overseer is actually really good, it's just nobody bothers to play around with the stuff they have.
For example, contaminate can be really amazing, but hardly any pro zergs use it even though it's esentially free.
-___-, overseers cost gas u know?
ZvP: defend Allin, rush to hive, get BLs ---> most of the time u even skimp on upgrades
ZvT: bio: everything shoots up, mech: if u use conti often they just use a thor + turrets, later they build turret rings + PFs
ZvZ: maybe i guess, but still every tech unit needs so much gas
|
Overseers are still vastly underused. In ZvP the zerg will end up with 4k min / gas, and he can't afford to morph 6 overseers & harass throughout the game? I think not ... I use them all the time and they're a good unit.
I use them in ZvZ. 40 second corruption on a hatch costs your opponent 7 larva... 50/50 for 7 larva, HMMM i wonder if that's worth it? (it is...) Build 3 and contaminate all 3 hatches. Minus 21 larva for him. Trust me, you can afford it.
I use them against mech in ZvT. I only build 2 and harass him once, unless he's skimped on turrets; but those two are worth it.
If you see 2 ebays along the rim of his base, build 2 overseers... It is the counter.
It's laughable how underused overseers are.
You should have overseers in ZvP after you're maxed; if you don't, you've made a mistake. Using contaminate on gateways right after the first big engagement is a crucial use of otherwise unused resources. If you have 4k/4k, you should have at least 10 overseers.
Not to mention delaying the mothership, you delay the protoss entire push .... Not worth the 50/50 resources you say?
In ZvP, right when you see the opponent taking his 3rd, you should almost immediately be morphing 4 overseers. Kill all observers, and begin saving energy to harass with in a couple minutes. There is no other better usage of your 200/200 min/gas at this time, unless you want to try pressuring the opponent; which is less and less effective these days. You are rolling in cash and he won't be pushing you for a bit. Killing the observers is a high priority. Overseers harass is the most effective harass you have against protoss at this stage. The others are too big investments and can be stopped easier, actually. Just getting the forge twice is huge... and usually so easy.
|
|
|
On November 10 2012 21:52 Decendos wrote:
did you even read the OP? i suggest giving overlord 2 options. morph into the old 0 supply overseer and morph into a 2 supply spellcaster (which as 1 of his 3 spells has contaminate).
Yes I read your OP. And we both know that such mechanics will never be part of Starcraft. If you make a suggestion you should always stay within the framework of starcraft. Hence my reaction to switch contaminate to the corruptor. That also fixes the problem you describe but at the same time stays within the framework used in the game.
Same for people who suggest unit or energy costs that aren't a multiple of 25, it will never happen (as stated by Blizzard).
On November 10 2012 21:53 Tritanis wrote:
Then make Overseer cost and give supply at the same time, and give it some cool spells. I fail to see how this could be problematic to implement.
That still doesn't work. If it gives 8 supply but costs 2, it's the same as costing 0 and providing 6, which means you can still mass them when you're at 200 supply.
|
Not really. His whole point is that costing 2/giving 8 isn't the same as giving 6 - you wouldn't be able to make those at 200.
|
United States4883 Posts
On November 11 2012 23:33 Morphs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 21:53 Tritanis wrote:
Then make Overseer cost and give supply at the same time, and give it some cool spells. I fail to see how this could be problematic to implement. That still doesn't work. If it gives 8 supply but costs 2, it's the same as costing 0 and providing 6, which means you can still mass them when you're at 200 supply.
...That doesn't make sense lol. Once you get to 200 supply, you can't increase the ceiling anymore, so you literally stop. You can't mass them when you're at 200 supply. Anywayz, as for this whole debate, I think it might be problematic because you have questions like these. Putting more interesting abilities on corruptors would be interesting, but they literally can't be shot down if 20 of them fly into your base.... -_-
|
On November 11 2012 23:33 Morphs wrote:
That still doesn't work. If it gives 8 supply but costs 2, it's the same as costing 0 and providing 6, which means you can still mass them when you're at 200 supply.
What the hell?
|
I like overseer as is. My only complaint is that people don't understand how effective it is, but that will come in time.
I do love the thought of another option for flying harass. But
Here are several other forms of non-all-in harass.
- With vipers and overlord drops you get non-all-in harass
- If you place nydus around the map you can use roaches or small groups of swarm host to harass outer bases
- Zergling run-bys
- Banling Drops
- Banling "Run-bys" (Sometime)
- Burrowed _________
- Infestor hit squads
I will admit zerg are missing Air harass but burrowed harass, nydus harass(Even out of base nyduses), run-bys, and just fast moving raiding parties, make their harass unique and effective. Zerg doesn't need more areal harassment even if we sorely want it. Learning good use of contaminate to slow your opponent, creates holes you can then exploit with alternative forms of harass.
|
Just to specify he is saying they would cost 2 and produce 8
If you only had one your supply would be 2/8
It produces net 6 but since it consumes 2
If you have 90 drones it takes 90 supply
If you have 6 of these it takes 12 supply and produces 48 supply. With a net supply gain of 36.
Where as Overseer as is if you have the money you can produce them indefinitely.
|
You could make the Viper be a morph from the overlord, at the current state, i don't like that you can just make Viper, when you have Hive, out of nothing, no building.
But if you made a spellcaster which gave supply, while still costing supply, it could just aswell be the Overseer, but with better spells.
Buffing it's spell, but costing 2 supply aswell as giving 8.
|
okay since some people have problems with the "give 8, take 2 supply":
imagine you are at 200/200 and build 1 new overlord. this 1 new overlord would give you 8 supply and cost 0 supply. since you are at 200/200 you gain no extra supply from this 1 new overlord.
now you take that 1 new overlord and like to morph it into the new spellcaster/overseer for 2 supply. doesnt work because you are at supply cap.
NO infinite overseers!
|
I think you should then reduce the cost of the old overseer with the removal of contaminate from it, Other than that, good idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
