• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:22
CET 01:22
KST 09:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !3Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win2Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1534 users

Protoss Identity in SC2: Power and Cost - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
dw.Justify
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany34 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-29 01:46:03
November 29 2012 01:32 GMT
#181
Some of the upgrades are rly good and would make the protoss race more fun. The problem is just that warpage is necessecarry because it increases the production time of protoss and whit a later upgrade proxys and 2 gate zealot start vs zerg would be too strong (because you need to drecrease the unit build time then from normal gateway). The real problem is moving sentrys to robo and let them cost more. I agree forcefield is an extremly strong spell and much too early availabe, but the problem is that you need it vs zerg. You cant win whitout forcefield against roach army and even zerglings (when you dont play only zealots). Vs terran its possible to win whitout forcefields but then you are forced to go collossi rly fast and cant make fast expansions. So chaning the forcefield that much is not possible in sc2 because the game is balanced arround forcefield. Even with the forcefields (that everyone uses especially good players) the win ratio is 50/50 for all races. moving forcefield to robo and making the sentry cost much morewould change this ratio to like 20 %.

Edit: Ok whith a tier 1.5 gw Immortal you could deal with roaches prob even whitout forcefields but the problem would be then that an immortal stalker army would own terran completly. (stalker bonus dmg vs light marines, immortal bonus dmg vs the marauders all ranged). I think this is not rly that easy to balance and blizzard workerd before we saw this game really hard on thinks like this. All the balance updates and work in this game blizzard put up since beta was made arround forcefield. What you suggest is a completly new game that starts by 0. And its not even clear if protoss could be integrated like this into the balance pool. So you would have to change again the other races. If you just look on a baneling bust. whitout forcefield these strats are not even to hold (forcefield on tier 1 ) terran can counter it because of bunkers and early marines protoss has not enough range when the bust starts.
junemermaid
Profile Joined September 2006
United States981 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 00:11:13
November 29 2012 02:28 GMT
#182
the UMP says YER OUT
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
December 04 2012 07:54 GMT
#183
We have standardized Immortal's range (5 range), removed its range upgrade, and decreased its starting speed with a movement upgrade at cybercore. This allows Terran bio to do pre stim pokes without losing everything.
Reflection and Respect.
dugokontov
Profile Joined March 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina14 Posts
December 04 2012 11:12 GMT
#184
I have one suggestion for Immortals. Could you make Immortals have one ability that would activate high output damage and turn harden shields off. So, Immortal would be unit with:


* deals 20 dmg
* has harden shields activated
* has ability: Weapon overload that would read: This will run power from harden shields in weapons. It will add +30 dmg vs armored, but it will turn off the shields.


With this we would get a new dynamic that will reward micro, but it wouldn't penalize skill-less players too much. So now to approach tank line you would have to march with immortals, and when tanks are in range activate this ability to output high damage.

I would also make cool down of "Weapon overload" last as long as roach attach speed, so you could, with good micro, minimize roach dmg and maximize immortals by constantly activating/deactivating it. Of course, if you have APM to support this, but that is whole point of eSport games... reward skill.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 19:36:10
December 04 2012 19:35 GMT
#185
Hmmm, that seems like giving Immortals a stim. Since they can fire up, they would trounce BCs and Carriers since Hardened Shield does nothing, so you might as well just swap for damage and a-move. You would also leave it oh vs Hydras for a huge damage boost. We will put it on our test list, but my first thought about Weapon Overload would be that it is more often than not just going to be a damage boost.
Reflection and Respect.
Exells
Profile Joined September 2012
France59 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 10:59:39
December 05 2012 10:53 GMT
#186
Is it on hots or on Wol US server ?

Edit : If it's WoL US serve, make it EU server also, plz.
dugokontov
Profile Joined March 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina14 Posts
December 05 2012 15:06 GMT
#187
On December 05 2012 04:35 ItWhoSpeaks wrote:
Hmmm, that seems like giving Immortals a stim. Since they can fire up, they would trounce BCs and Carriers since Hardened Shield does nothing, so you might as well just swap for damage and a-move. You would also leave it oh vs Hydras for a huge damage boost. We will put it on our test list, but my first thought about Weapon Overload would be that it is more often than not just going to be a damage boost.


We misunderstood each other. I asked you to make immortal only have this change from WoL version. Not to add this to the one that you already altered by adding air attack, reducing dmg, speed nerf, etc.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
December 16 2012 11:54 GMT
#188
Understood! Well, as soon as we get the OneGoal PTR maps published on EU in the next few days, I hope to hear your feedback!
Reflection and Respect.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
December 16 2012 12:03 GMT
#189
Amazing read. Warp Gate really needs to be removed or reworked in order to fix Protoss.
winsonsonho
Profile Joined October 2012
Korea (South)143 Posts
December 27 2012 06:33 GMT
#190
Instead if reducing time of warpgate production. How about making it produce units with shield and energy charged lower than usual. In other words, units have 20 lower shield and 20 lower energy (if they have energy). This does not decrease the maximum shields our energy of the unit. K-Amulet could then even be brought back. Would also lower the strength of mass warpgate reinforcements. Maybe zealot and stalker could get a small buff too..

Not sure if an idea like this has already been brought up? Sorry if it has. Still hope blizzard are considering a change to warpgate..
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 39m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft408
JimRising 300
SpeCial 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 583
NaDa 42
Mong 14
Dota 2
syndereN1465
NeuroSwarm116
LuMiX1
League of Legends
C9.Mang0168
Counter-Strike
taco 339
Other Games
summit1g7564
Grubby3828
Day[9].tv546
Fuzer 361
Trikslyr58
Mew2King43
ViBE19
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick511
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 90
• davetesta50
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4455
Other Games
• imaqtpie2431
• Day9tv546
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
9h 39m
WardiTV 2025
12h 39m
Cure vs Creator
Solar vs TBD
herO vs Spirit
Scarlett vs Gerald
Rogue vs Shameless
MaNa vs ShoWTimE
Nice vs TBD
WardiTV 2025
1d 10h
OSC
1d 13h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
3 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.