• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:23
CEST 04:23
KST 11:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun8[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists20[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) FSL Season 10 Individual Championship WardiTV Spring Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review ASL21 General Discussion Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review [ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May Korean KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1925 users

Protoss Identity in SC2: Power and Cost - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
dw.Justify
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany34 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-29 01:46:03
November 29 2012 01:32 GMT
#181
Some of the upgrades are rly good and would make the protoss race more fun. The problem is just that warpage is necessecarry because it increases the production time of protoss and whit a later upgrade proxys and 2 gate zealot start vs zerg would be too strong (because you need to drecrease the unit build time then from normal gateway). The real problem is moving sentrys to robo and let them cost more. I agree forcefield is an extremly strong spell and much too early availabe, but the problem is that you need it vs zerg. You cant win whitout forcefield against roach army and even zerglings (when you dont play only zealots). Vs terran its possible to win whitout forcefields but then you are forced to go collossi rly fast and cant make fast expansions. So chaning the forcefield that much is not possible in sc2 because the game is balanced arround forcefield. Even with the forcefields (that everyone uses especially good players) the win ratio is 50/50 for all races. moving forcefield to robo and making the sentry cost much morewould change this ratio to like 20 %.

Edit: Ok whith a tier 1.5 gw Immortal you could deal with roaches prob even whitout forcefields but the problem would be then that an immortal stalker army would own terran completly. (stalker bonus dmg vs light marines, immortal bonus dmg vs the marauders all ranged). I think this is not rly that easy to balance and blizzard workerd before we saw this game really hard on thinks like this. All the balance updates and work in this game blizzard put up since beta was made arround forcefield. What you suggest is a completly new game that starts by 0. And its not even clear if protoss could be integrated like this into the balance pool. So you would have to change again the other races. If you just look on a baneling bust. whitout forcefield these strats are not even to hold (forcefield on tier 1 ) terran can counter it because of bunkers and early marines protoss has not enough range when the bust starts.
junemermaid
Profile Joined September 2006
United States981 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 00:11:13
November 29 2012 02:28 GMT
#182
the UMP says YER OUT
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
December 04 2012 07:54 GMT
#183
We have standardized Immortal's range (5 range), removed its range upgrade, and decreased its starting speed with a movement upgrade at cybercore. This allows Terran bio to do pre stim pokes without losing everything.
Reflection and Respect.
dugokontov
Profile Joined March 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina14 Posts
December 04 2012 11:12 GMT
#184
I have one suggestion for Immortals. Could you make Immortals have one ability that would activate high output damage and turn harden shields off. So, Immortal would be unit with:


* deals 20 dmg
* has harden shields activated
* has ability: Weapon overload that would read: This will run power from harden shields in weapons. It will add +30 dmg vs armored, but it will turn off the shields.


With this we would get a new dynamic that will reward micro, but it wouldn't penalize skill-less players too much. So now to approach tank line you would have to march with immortals, and when tanks are in range activate this ability to output high damage.

I would also make cool down of "Weapon overload" last as long as roach attach speed, so you could, with good micro, minimize roach dmg and maximize immortals by constantly activating/deactivating it. Of course, if you have APM to support this, but that is whole point of eSport games... reward skill.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 19:36:10
December 04 2012 19:35 GMT
#185
Hmmm, that seems like giving Immortals a stim. Since they can fire up, they would trounce BCs and Carriers since Hardened Shield does nothing, so you might as well just swap for damage and a-move. You would also leave it oh vs Hydras for a huge damage boost. We will put it on our test list, but my first thought about Weapon Overload would be that it is more often than not just going to be a damage boost.
Reflection and Respect.
Exells
Profile Joined September 2012
France59 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 10:59:39
December 05 2012 10:53 GMT
#186
Is it on hots or on Wol US server ?

Edit : If it's WoL US serve, make it EU server also, plz.
dugokontov
Profile Joined March 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina14 Posts
December 05 2012 15:06 GMT
#187
On December 05 2012 04:35 ItWhoSpeaks wrote:
Hmmm, that seems like giving Immortals a stim. Since they can fire up, they would trounce BCs and Carriers since Hardened Shield does nothing, so you might as well just swap for damage and a-move. You would also leave it oh vs Hydras for a huge damage boost. We will put it on our test list, but my first thought about Weapon Overload would be that it is more often than not just going to be a damage boost.


We misunderstood each other. I asked you to make immortal only have this change from WoL version. Not to add this to the one that you already altered by adding air attack, reducing dmg, speed nerf, etc.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
December 16 2012 11:54 GMT
#188
Understood! Well, as soon as we get the OneGoal PTR maps published on EU in the next few days, I hope to hear your feedback!
Reflection and Respect.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
December 16 2012 12:03 GMT
#189
Amazing read. Warp Gate really needs to be removed or reworked in order to fix Protoss.
winsonsonho
Profile Joined October 2012
Korea (South)143 Posts
December 27 2012 06:33 GMT
#190
Instead if reducing time of warpgate production. How about making it produce units with shield and energy charged lower than usual. In other words, units have 20 lower shield and 20 lower energy (if they have energy). This does not decrease the maximum shields our energy of the unit. K-Amulet could then even be brought back. Would also lower the strength of mass warpgate reinforcements. Maybe zealot and stalker could get a small buff too..

Not sure if an idea like this has already been brought up? Sorry if it has. Still hope blizzard are considering a change to warpgate..
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
StarCraft Evolution League #21
CranKy Ducklings93
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 133
SpeCial 113
Nina 82
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6421
Artosis 686
910 50
NaDa 27
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm413
monkeys_forever341
League of Legends
Doublelift4219
JimRising 565
Counter-Strike
taco 444
Other Games
summit1g8712
C9.Mang0614
WinterStarcraft259
Maynarde88
ViBE21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1179
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream46
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 74
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt233
Other Games
• Scarra1135
Upcoming Events
GSL
7h 7m
Cure vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Bunny
KCM Race Survival
7h 37m
Big Gabe
9h 37m
Replay Cast
21h 37m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Escore
1d 7h
OSC
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
IPSL
3 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Snow vs Flash
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-28
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.