• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:12
CEST 19:12
KST 02:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence3Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups2WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time
Tourneys
WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion Playing StarCraft as 2 people on the same network
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group C [ASL20] Ro16 Group B [IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info! Is there English video for group selection for ASL
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1410 users

Protoss Identity in SC2: Power and Cost - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
dw.Justify
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany34 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-29 01:46:03
November 29 2012 01:32 GMT
#181
Some of the upgrades are rly good and would make the protoss race more fun. The problem is just that warpage is necessecarry because it increases the production time of protoss and whit a later upgrade proxys and 2 gate zealot start vs zerg would be too strong (because you need to drecrease the unit build time then from normal gateway). The real problem is moving sentrys to robo and let them cost more. I agree forcefield is an extremly strong spell and much too early availabe, but the problem is that you need it vs zerg. You cant win whitout forcefield against roach army and even zerglings (when you dont play only zealots). Vs terran its possible to win whitout forcefields but then you are forced to go collossi rly fast and cant make fast expansions. So chaning the forcefield that much is not possible in sc2 because the game is balanced arround forcefield. Even with the forcefields (that everyone uses especially good players) the win ratio is 50/50 for all races. moving forcefield to robo and making the sentry cost much morewould change this ratio to like 20 %.

Edit: Ok whith a tier 1.5 gw Immortal you could deal with roaches prob even whitout forcefields but the problem would be then that an immortal stalker army would own terran completly. (stalker bonus dmg vs light marines, immortal bonus dmg vs the marauders all ranged). I think this is not rly that easy to balance and blizzard workerd before we saw this game really hard on thinks like this. All the balance updates and work in this game blizzard put up since beta was made arround forcefield. What you suggest is a completly new game that starts by 0. And its not even clear if protoss could be integrated like this into the balance pool. So you would have to change again the other races. If you just look on a baneling bust. whitout forcefield these strats are not even to hold (forcefield on tier 1 ) terran can counter it because of bunkers and early marines protoss has not enough range when the bust starts.
junemermaid
Profile Joined September 2006
United States981 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 00:11:13
November 29 2012 02:28 GMT
#182
the UMP says YER OUT
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
December 04 2012 07:54 GMT
#183
We have standardized Immortal's range (5 range), removed its range upgrade, and decreased its starting speed with a movement upgrade at cybercore. This allows Terran bio to do pre stim pokes without losing everything.
Reflection and Respect.
dugokontov
Profile Joined March 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina14 Posts
December 04 2012 11:12 GMT
#184
I have one suggestion for Immortals. Could you make Immortals have one ability that would activate high output damage and turn harden shields off. So, Immortal would be unit with:


* deals 20 dmg
* has harden shields activated
* has ability: Weapon overload that would read: This will run power from harden shields in weapons. It will add +30 dmg vs armored, but it will turn off the shields.


With this we would get a new dynamic that will reward micro, but it wouldn't penalize skill-less players too much. So now to approach tank line you would have to march with immortals, and when tanks are in range activate this ability to output high damage.

I would also make cool down of "Weapon overload" last as long as roach attach speed, so you could, with good micro, minimize roach dmg and maximize immortals by constantly activating/deactivating it. Of course, if you have APM to support this, but that is whole point of eSport games... reward skill.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 19:36:10
December 04 2012 19:35 GMT
#185
Hmmm, that seems like giving Immortals a stim. Since they can fire up, they would trounce BCs and Carriers since Hardened Shield does nothing, so you might as well just swap for damage and a-move. You would also leave it oh vs Hydras for a huge damage boost. We will put it on our test list, but my first thought about Weapon Overload would be that it is more often than not just going to be a damage boost.
Reflection and Respect.
Exells
Profile Joined September 2012
France59 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 10:59:39
December 05 2012 10:53 GMT
#186
Is it on hots or on Wol US server ?

Edit : If it's WoL US serve, make it EU server also, plz.
dugokontov
Profile Joined March 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina14 Posts
December 05 2012 15:06 GMT
#187
On December 05 2012 04:35 ItWhoSpeaks wrote:
Hmmm, that seems like giving Immortals a stim. Since they can fire up, they would trounce BCs and Carriers since Hardened Shield does nothing, so you might as well just swap for damage and a-move. You would also leave it oh vs Hydras for a huge damage boost. We will put it on our test list, but my first thought about Weapon Overload would be that it is more often than not just going to be a damage boost.


We misunderstood each other. I asked you to make immortal only have this change from WoL version. Not to add this to the one that you already altered by adding air attack, reducing dmg, speed nerf, etc.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
December 16 2012 11:54 GMT
#188
Understood! Well, as soon as we get the OneGoal PTR maps published on EU in the next few days, I hope to hear your feedback!
Reflection and Respect.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
December 16 2012 12:03 GMT
#189
Amazing read. Warp Gate really needs to be removed or reworked in order to fix Protoss.
winsonsonho
Profile Joined October 2012
Korea (South)143 Posts
December 27 2012 06:33 GMT
#190
Instead if reducing time of warpgate production. How about making it produce units with shield and energy charged lower than usual. In other words, units have 20 lower shield and 20 lower energy (if they have energy). This does not decrease the maximum shields our energy of the unit. K-Amulet could then even be brought back. Would also lower the strength of mass warpgate reinforcements. Maybe zealot and stalker could get a small buff too..

Not sure if an idea like this has already been brought up? Sorry if it has. Still hope blizzard are considering a change to warpgate..
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#23
RotterdaM447
Harstem424
TKL 234
IndyStarCraft 181
PiGStarcraft129
SteadfastSC107
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 447
Harstem 424
TKL 234
IndyStarCraft 181
PiGStarcraft129
SteadfastSC 107
UpATreeSC 63
MindelVK 40
Codebar 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3816
Sea 1359
EffOrt 1285
Shuttle 1126
Stork 346
firebathero 281
ggaemo 264
Rush 214
Hyuk 150
hero 89
[ Show more ]
Mong 88
Dewaltoss 77
JYJ77
sas.Sziky 58
Mind 48
zelot 38
soO 29
Rock 17
Movie 16
Noble 15
SilentControl 14
yabsab 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Terrorterran 11
sSak 9
Shine 9
Hm[arnc] 7
Counter-Strike
ScreaM980
flusha156
Other Games
tarik_tv20912
gofns13445
B2W.Neo884
ceh9520
FrodaN495
Beastyqt405
crisheroes291
Lowko280
Fuzer 236
XaKoH 189
KnowMe92
QueenE84
Trikslyr67
Mew2King49
NeuroSwarm48
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• OhrlRock 1
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2710
• Ler83
League of Legends
• Jankos1465
• Nemesis1365
Other Games
• Shiphtur253
• imaqtpie32
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 48m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 48m
Afreeca Starleague
16h 48m
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
2v2
17h 48m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 6h
LiuLi Cup
1d 17h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Online Event
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Team Wars
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.