• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:54
CET 12:54
KST 20:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA12
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Path of Exile [Game] Osu!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2098 users

Protoss Identity in SC2: Power and Cost - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
dw.Justify
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany34 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-29 01:46:03
November 29 2012 01:32 GMT
#181
Some of the upgrades are rly good and would make the protoss race more fun. The problem is just that warpage is necessecarry because it increases the production time of protoss and whit a later upgrade proxys and 2 gate zealot start vs zerg would be too strong (because you need to drecrease the unit build time then from normal gateway). The real problem is moving sentrys to robo and let them cost more. I agree forcefield is an extremly strong spell and much too early availabe, but the problem is that you need it vs zerg. You cant win whitout forcefield against roach army and even zerglings (when you dont play only zealots). Vs terran its possible to win whitout forcefields but then you are forced to go collossi rly fast and cant make fast expansions. So chaning the forcefield that much is not possible in sc2 because the game is balanced arround forcefield. Even with the forcefields (that everyone uses especially good players) the win ratio is 50/50 for all races. moving forcefield to robo and making the sentry cost much morewould change this ratio to like 20 %.

Edit: Ok whith a tier 1.5 gw Immortal you could deal with roaches prob even whitout forcefields but the problem would be then that an immortal stalker army would own terran completly. (stalker bonus dmg vs light marines, immortal bonus dmg vs the marauders all ranged). I think this is not rly that easy to balance and blizzard workerd before we saw this game really hard on thinks like this. All the balance updates and work in this game blizzard put up since beta was made arround forcefield. What you suggest is a completly new game that starts by 0. And its not even clear if protoss could be integrated like this into the balance pool. So you would have to change again the other races. If you just look on a baneling bust. whitout forcefield these strats are not even to hold (forcefield on tier 1 ) terran can counter it because of bunkers and early marines protoss has not enough range when the bust starts.
junemermaid
Profile Joined September 2006
United States981 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 00:11:13
November 29 2012 02:28 GMT
#182
the UMP says YER OUT
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
December 04 2012 07:54 GMT
#183
We have standardized Immortal's range (5 range), removed its range upgrade, and decreased its starting speed with a movement upgrade at cybercore. This allows Terran bio to do pre stim pokes without losing everything.
Reflection and Respect.
dugokontov
Profile Joined March 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina14 Posts
December 04 2012 11:12 GMT
#184
I have one suggestion for Immortals. Could you make Immortals have one ability that would activate high output damage and turn harden shields off. So, Immortal would be unit with:


* deals 20 dmg
* has harden shields activated
* has ability: Weapon overload that would read: This will run power from harden shields in weapons. It will add +30 dmg vs armored, but it will turn off the shields.


With this we would get a new dynamic that will reward micro, but it wouldn't penalize skill-less players too much. So now to approach tank line you would have to march with immortals, and when tanks are in range activate this ability to output high damage.

I would also make cool down of "Weapon overload" last as long as roach attach speed, so you could, with good micro, minimize roach dmg and maximize immortals by constantly activating/deactivating it. Of course, if you have APM to support this, but that is whole point of eSport games... reward skill.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 19:36:10
December 04 2012 19:35 GMT
#185
Hmmm, that seems like giving Immortals a stim. Since they can fire up, they would trounce BCs and Carriers since Hardened Shield does nothing, so you might as well just swap for damage and a-move. You would also leave it oh vs Hydras for a huge damage boost. We will put it on our test list, but my first thought about Weapon Overload would be that it is more often than not just going to be a damage boost.
Reflection and Respect.
Exells
Profile Joined September 2012
France59 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 10:59:39
December 05 2012 10:53 GMT
#186
Is it on hots or on Wol US server ?

Edit : If it's WoL US serve, make it EU server also, plz.
dugokontov
Profile Joined March 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina14 Posts
December 05 2012 15:06 GMT
#187
On December 05 2012 04:35 ItWhoSpeaks wrote:
Hmmm, that seems like giving Immortals a stim. Since they can fire up, they would trounce BCs and Carriers since Hardened Shield does nothing, so you might as well just swap for damage and a-move. You would also leave it oh vs Hydras for a huge damage boost. We will put it on our test list, but my first thought about Weapon Overload would be that it is more often than not just going to be a damage boost.


We misunderstood each other. I asked you to make immortal only have this change from WoL version. Not to add this to the one that you already altered by adding air attack, reducing dmg, speed nerf, etc.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
December 16 2012 11:54 GMT
#188
Understood! Well, as soon as we get the OneGoal PTR maps published on EU in the next few days, I hope to hear your feedback!
Reflection and Respect.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
December 16 2012 12:03 GMT
#189
Amazing read. Warp Gate really needs to be removed or reworked in order to fix Protoss.
winsonsonho
Profile Joined October 2012
Korea (South)143 Posts
December 27 2012 06:33 GMT
#190
Instead if reducing time of warpgate production. How about making it produce units with shield and energy charged lower than usual. In other words, units have 20 lower shield and 20 lower energy (if they have energy). This does not decrease the maximum shields our energy of the unit. K-Amulet could then even be brought back. Would also lower the strength of mass warpgate reinforcements. Maybe zealot and stalker could get a small buff too..

Not sure if an idea like this has already been brought up? Sorry if it has. Still hope blizzard are considering a change to warpgate..
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
07:30
Playoffs
herO vs MaruLIVE!
Tasteless1770
Crank 1248
ComeBackTV 605
IndyStarCraft 239
Rex162
3DClanTV 112
CranKy Ducklings110
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 1770
Crank 1248
mouzHeroMarine 347
IndyStarCraft 239
Rex 162
SortOf 93
MindelVK 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 44556
Rain 2336
Larva 923
firebathero 498
PianO 428
Killer 269
Last 239
Mini 233
Rush 136
sorry 86
[ Show more ]
Aegong 53
Backho 37
yabsab 33
HiyA 30
soO 27
Movie 23
Hm[arnc] 12
Purpose 12
zelot 5
Oya187 4
Terrorterran 1
Dota 2
Gorgc1662
XcaliburYe414
League of Legends
JimRising 387
Reynor59
Counter-Strike
zeus122
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor175
Other Games
summit1g18451
B2W.Neo1333
crisheroes280
Trikslyr31
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream25054
Other Games
gamesdonequick600
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 51
lovetv 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH204
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota230
League of Legends
• Stunt975
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Korean Royale
6m
WardiTV22
SC Evo League
36m
IPSL
5h 6m
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
OSC
5h 6m
BSL 21
8h 6m
TerrOr vs Aeternum
HBO vs Kyrie
RSL Revival
19h 36m
Wardi Open
1d 2h
IPSL
1d 8h
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
BSL 21
1d 8h
StRyKeR vs Artosis
OyAji vs KameZerg
OSC
1d 11h
[ Show More ]
OSC
1d 21h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
LAN Event
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-16
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.