EPTBlizzard is trying desperately to make mech work with a bunch of walking mechs. It seems that it would be better to re-introduce Brood War Terran mech as a "vanilla" old-school style that would appeal to the Brood War fans who are switching over to follow the KESPA players. Blizzard has already been "creative" with Protoss, Zerg, and Terran Bio. Why not reintroduce BW mech as a tribute to the most popular RTS of all time? It would make fans happy, and we know it could be viable.
Would Brood War Terran Mech Work in TvP?
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS |
|
Salient
United States876 Posts
Blizzard is trying desperately to make mech work with a bunch of walking mechs. It seems that it would be better to re-introduce Brood War Terran mech as a "vanilla" old-school style that would appeal to the Brood War fans who are switching over to follow the KESPA players. Blizzard has already been "creative" with Protoss, Zerg, and Terran Bio. Why not reintroduce BW mech as a tribute to the most popular RTS of all time? It would make fans happy, and we know it could be viable. | ||
|
Fencar
United States2694 Posts
Charge, Immortals, and Colossus are also some of the toughest things for Tanks to fight against. Mines die to Colossus+Observer, and then there are only a few layers of mines for the Chargelots to fight. | ||
|
Tppz!
Germany1449 Posts
a) anti air b) immortal both would be solved by a goliath. a) because of his anti air attack (obviously) and b) because of his fast attack. so yes it would in my opinion. | ||
|
Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
No, the Immortal, Blink Stalkers, and Colossus would shit all over a mech army that came straight out of BW. Long answer: The Widow Mine and Battle Hellion will add a lot of viability to mech, but the question will be if players can find a way to hold back the Protoss economy with such limited mobility. It worked in BW because Vultures were cheap and effective, Protoss did not have a way to attack straight on vs the massive minefields that were common in that MU. Mech CAN be viable, but just adding mines won't do it. | ||
|
terranghost
United States980 Posts
In BW reavers were slow and had a super long cooldown but collosi are fast and have a much shorter cooldown making them much more ideal for clearing spidermines that are far out however there is a huge difference IMO between speedlots and chargelots. Chargelots are slow at the start and don't speed up till they get closer to the tanks making it harder for them to pull mines. | ||
|
Zanno
United States1484 Posts
tanks and vults did full damage to shields regardless of unit type this meant pure tank was bad against pure zealot, and pure vult was bad against pure dragoon (offensive spider mines aside), but the combination of the two units results in a rapid and glorious meltdown of all things protoss, and once the terran mech army got in front of a base, vultures could do good damage to buildings, just not kill them remember vultures did a rough equivalent of 5+15 to light in BW, similar to what blue flame used to do. medium units complicate this, i know, but it's the closest approximation you can get. upgrades like charge and blink make mech even less effective, but this under the hood change really destroyed the synergy mech had with itself against protoss so before anyone can answer this question, which set of damage modifiers are we using? because if vultures were no good at stripping away shields, they would be utterly useless against stalkers and immortals | ||
|
M.R. McThundercrotch
United States265 Posts
I feel like they each have their own strengths and they might be able to coexist, with he hellion as the main harasser and the vulture as the protector of the tank line. Same question for the goliath and the thor. I think the thor could remain for strategies like hellion/thor vs zerg, while the goliath would go a long way to helping mech vs. Protoss. Maybe these ideas aren't exactly elegant, but I'm wondering what other people think about simply adding these two units. | ||
|
MasterCynical
505 Posts
Currently TvP tank marine is very much like BW mech, except its more mobile. | ||
|
wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
Goliath had an upgrade called charon boosters which gave them insane range. Now goliaths have a pretty strong anti air attack, but a relatively weak anti ground attack. Now guess what? The collusus can be hit by anti-air attacks. So I assume the goliath would be able to attack with his anti-air attack versus the collussus. Now mines, free mines, would together with goliaths act as a strong meathshield versus zealots and stalkers. Any blink in by stalkers would get absolutely raped by mines. Stronger tanks + mines will absolutely rape clumped up chargelots. Stronger tanks means you can start spreading out your army, so splash damage is going to be a lot weaker. Protoss storm's dps is already a lot weaker than BW's so storm won't even be that much of a problem. And guess what protoss doesn't have the insane arbiter to recall in a terran's base, to cloack the entire army, to stasis large portions of the mech army,.... Add some ghosts in there versus heavy immortal users (like vessels vs arbiter) and mech would probably even be too strong. | ||
|
a176
Canada6688 Posts
in bw, the only thing a protoss could do to eliminate spider mines was a slow goon crawl, or saccing zealots, which usually doesnt clear as many mines. in sc2, stalkers are much faster and more effective than goons, with the ability to blink away from any stray mines. colossus is the ultimate mine clearer and toss will always have a couple of them. theres no comparison, the units in sc2 are too effective versus mines so a bw mech army would never be able to deal with the mobility of even just zealotstalkercolossus balls. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Nowadays mech is beaten by mass immortals + archons. With BW mech it would be 2-3 colossi to clear mines, chargelot immortal. You would have to lay mines almost on top of you own tanks because of colossi range. With mines almost on the tanks, chargelots could easily pull them bw style, easier even. And in terms of fighting power vultures are about as strong as hellions. Colossi clearing mines would really hinder bw mech from performing as good as against bw toss. | ||
|
Dontkillme
Korea (South)806 Posts
| ||
|
10734
340 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:58 Fencar wrote: Warpins, Colossus, Blink, completely screw with the low mobility of Mech. Blinkstalker all-in's also kill Mech builds and are one of the hardest things to fight even when opening Bio. Charge, Immortals, and Colossus are also some of the toughest things for Tanks to fight against. Mines die to Colossus+Observer, and then there are only a few layers of mines for the Chargelots to fight. Blink stalker allins can be fixed by maps. | ||
|
Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
| ||
|
MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
| ||
|
Nosferatos
Norway783 Posts
On September 22 2012 06:26 10734 wrote: Blink stalker allins can be fixed by maps. It's may, but then you remove an option from Protoss PvT play and we get more death ball games. We want to expand the options not limit them. | ||
|
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
| ||
|
link0
United States1071 Posts
The colossus forces deathball vs deathball playstyles. | ||
|
captainwaffles
United States1050 Posts
EDIT- Here is a vod from me streaming today, I don't know how to link it so it starts at a certain time.. if anyone could tell me that'd be great. Anyway, lots of mech vs Protoss in that vod, all wins :D http://www.twitch.tv/captainwaffles0/b/332967605 | ||
|
Robotix
United States51 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:58 Fencar wrote: Warpins, Colossus, Blink, completely screw with the low mobility of Mech. Blinkstalker all-in's also kill Mech builds and are one of the hardest things to fight even when opening Bio. Charge, Immortals, and Colossus are also some of the toughest things for Tanks to fight against. Mines die to Colossus+Observer, and then there are only a few layers of mines for the Chargelots to fight. Tanks are really good against Colossi. Not only do they do bonus damage to Armored and outrange Colossi, they also do full damage to anything directly beneath the Colossi (and splash to everything nearby, including other Colossi). | ||
|
Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
On September 22 2012 10:07 Robotix wrote: Tanks are really good against Colossi. Not only do they do bonus damage to Armored and outrange Colossi, they also do full damage to anything directly beneath the Colossi (and splash to everything nearby, including other Colossi). Collosus vs tanks is actually a somewhat interesting matchup desingwise. Its true that in direct comeback with FF tanks should do well vs collosus. However collosus/blink stalker combination (esp. with recall) has really strong mobility and could provide a lot of trouble against mech. It's just sad that we (apparently) will not see this matchup play out due to the incompencies of Blizzard. | ||
|
Crawdad
614 Posts
EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, Colossi would be more of a threat without Vikings. Hmmm... | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On September 22 2012 10:34 Crawdad wrote: Yes, because EMP belonged to the Science Vessel instead of the Ghost. Byebye Immortals. EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, Colossi would be more of a threat without Vikings. Hmmm... EMP w/ bigger radius and taking out 100% of shields/energy. imba!!! | ||
|
AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
| ||
|
j.k.l
112 Posts
| ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:59 Tppz! wrote: The big problem of mech in HotS are 2 things: a) anti air b) immortal both would be solved by a goliath. a) because of his anti air attack (obviously) and b) because of his fast attack. so yes it would in my opinion. This post pretty much sums it up. Battle hellions seem to hold up against the zealots pretty well which was a major problem. Immortals are still pretty annoying but HoTS has definitely started in the right direction. Part of me wishes I could have gotten into the Beta while the warhound was there so I could have a little fun with that xD but I lost when I was meching today  I know I'm not a real high level player to go by (only diamond in WoL >.< so bad!) but mech at least seems more reasonable than it was before. The goliath would be a perfect support unit | ||
|
YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
First off tanks are straight up stronger (theyll do their full damage to cols) and 2 supply. Secondly, because you can open with spider mines it makes P all-ins/builds that doesn't involve the robo that much riskier. Thirdly, many dont realise but vultures shoot faster than a hellion while dealing 20 damage to light units (10 to armoured). Also adding the goliaths means anti air is covered well. Map control will be fought over proxy pylon/warp ins vs vulture/spider mines. P will require observers every time or get punished. Id think immortals would fall to vultures really fast. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On September 23 2012 08:23 YyapSsap wrote: I think it would do MUCH better than the current mech composition. First off tanks are straight up stronger (theyll do their full damage to cols) and 2 supply. Secondly, because you can open with spider mines it makes P all-ins/builds that doesn't involve the robo that much riskier. Thirdly, many dont realise but vultures shoot faster than a hellion while dealing 20 damage to light units (10 to armoured). Also adding the goliaths means anti air is covered well. Map control will be fought over proxy pylon/warp ins vs vulture/spider mines. P will require observers every time or get punished. Id think immortals would fall to vultures really fast. On September 23 2012 08:23 YyapSsap wrote: Map control will be fought over proxy pylon/warp ins vs vulture/spider mines. P will require observers every time or get punished. Id think immortals would fall to vultures really fast. On September 23 2012 08:23 YyapSsap wrote: Id think immortals would fall to vultures really fast. Spit out my drink. BW vultures have(according to Liquipedia) 80 hp, no armor and 5 range. In BW concussive damage did 25% damage versus big target, not 50%. I find the notion of vultures killing immortals hilarious. "Really fast". The best part is that I´m sure you´re serious. When did you last play BW mech, if at all? Watching other players do it doesn´t count. | ||
|
Tenebra
Germany19 Posts
| ||
|
Rualror
14 Posts
| ||
|
Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On September 23 2012 18:04 Mataza wrote: Spit out my drink. BW vultures have(according to Liquipedia) 80 hp, no armor and 5 range. In BW concussive damage did 25% damage versus big target, not 50%. I find the notion of vultures killing immortals hilarious. "Really fast". The best part is that I´m sure you´re serious. When did you last play BW mech, if at all? Watching other players do it doesn´t count. looks like you aren't reading this thread shields in BW take full damage from all attacks. so vultures will be doing damage to immortal shields about the same speed as a marauder, costs only 75, and doesn't take full damage from immortal shots in return | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On September 23 2012 23:11 Zanno wrote: looks like you aren't reading this thread shields in BW take full damage from all attacks. so vultures will be doing damage to immortal shields about the same speed as a marauder, costs only 75, and doesn't take full damage from immortal shots in return Vultures don´t attack as fast as maruaders. They attack a bit slower than unstimmed marauders with less range. So quite a bit slower. If that was enough, Hellions would work in WoL. Hellions have 10 more HP, do 8-11 damage (so full shield damage and double the vulture after shields go down)and do splash. That down doesn´t make them kill immortals. They would evaporate as fast if not faster than Hellions and once Immortals reach your tanks, it´s over regardless. Range 7, 3 shots per Tank. | ||
| ||
