2020 - 2021 Football Thread - Page 146

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We Have Moved

{CC}StealthBlue

United States41117 Posts

June 03 2021 23:35 GMT

#2901

Gods if we lose... Pulisic has a target on his back.

Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

June 04 2021 01:38 GMT

#2902

--- Nuked ---

WombaT

Northern Ireland27228 Posts

June 04 2021 04:20 GMT

#2903

On June 03 2021 15:57 RKC wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 03 2021 15:42 sharkie wrote:

On June 03 2021 14:58 RKC wrote:

On June 03 2021 14:03 Dante08 wrote:

On June 03 2021 12:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:

On June 03 2021 11:32 RKC wrote:

On June 03 2021 02:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I think Chelsea fans are one of the more pragmatic groups out there. And I'm not trying to paint stuff as black or white - but different managers - while they can also be pragmatically minded - prefer different approaches. Some are perfect fits for a club, others aren't.

Also Arsenal's drought was an economically sensible slow decline into sacking their manager into a much more sudden decline. Liverpool during the PL era has not been a story of small positive steps forward. Prior to Klopp and with a partial exception for Benitez (whom at least had an identity, and who gave them one of their most amazing successes ever), it's been back and forth from season to season. Klopp also wasn't an immediate success in Liverpool - he was appointed manager in October 2015, but they ended 8th (down from 6th the season before). Both following seasons gave 4th place finishes. The fourth season was the one where he achieved success, with a 97 point second place coupled with CL victory. But if Liverpool had not been happy with a slow upward trajectory for the first three seasons, he wouldn't have gotten a fourth.

As long as the development is positive, the trajectory points upwards and players and supporters are positive, sacking a manager is imo really dumb. Sacking a manager because they lost a penalty shootout likewise (even if you can definitely make the case that he should've used Henderson for the shootout).

What you're saying is generally true - that some clubs stick to their core values representing their traditional home fans (Barca, Roma, maybe Rosenborg).

But such clubs are the minority (or a dying breed in the age of modern football). And the idea of MU being such a club is quite laughable.

Now, I speak as a football fan outside of UK. So whilst I may not know of the sentiments on the ground, I'm more attuned to the mindset of international fans (plastic fans, as some may denigrate).

Majority of MU international fans are pragmatists. The only reason why they were drawn to MU was because MU was winning. When Liverpool and Arsenal was fumbling despite playing prettier football, they would laugh off "Only results matter dude." They don't give a shit about playstyle or tradition, so long as they're winning. During their winning ways in the 2000, was there any stream of English youngsters groomed from their academy? No, MU fans were happy with RVN and Ronaldo - MU at its capitalistic and cosmopolitan best.

So the idea of MU fans differentiating themselves as traditionalists to Chelsea and M City being pragmatist is rather rich. I can understand Barca or Athelico Madrid fans feeling that way. But even their fans have gradually loosen up some of their traditional values (such as grooming first-team players from their academies).

MU, in contrast, has always been about playing to win (at least since the 90s). MU is more akin to Real Madrid than Barca. Frankly, the only reason why they're suddenly crowing about tradition and playstyle is simply because they haven't been winning. Finding excuses of why this or that manager didn't work out. Deep inside, they would sooner have a Pep or Klopp coaching their club - and WINNING! - rather than having a Lampard or Ole on the wheel making 'incremental' positive steps.

wtf are u talking about? are we talking about the same man united? i have no idea where you get the idea that the "majority of MU international fans are pragmatists". just sounds like a random ass pull.
united have always played fast aggressive football. aggressive as in direct and risk taking. now football has evolved to favour more rotation in possession but even then theres a difference between oles team and van gaals teams in how they recycle and utilise possession. one was boring as fuck to watch.
as for the youngsters comment, ummm have you never heard of the class of 92? literally an entire group of british academy players that took up half the spots in the squad? were also like the only team to have fielded an academy player in every match for over 20 years.
the identity of the club was formed by sir matt busby like 50 years ago and his philosophies were carried by saf and most recently ole, which is why supporters support ole over any manager weve had since saf.
not comparable to city or chelsea that have developed new images after new ownership and huge cash injection.
not even the most deluded liverpool fan would make the points you did. im pretty convinced you dont actually watch football to be this ignorant lol

You don't have to get so offended, he's making a valid point. Ole has done well this season but honestly speaking do you see him winning the PL/CL? Repeating my earlier post, obviously I would love to have a Klopp or Pep at United but managers like them are few and far between. He's saying most United fans wouldn't mind if the manager wasn't a perfect fit but managed to bring success to the team.

Ole is definitely a tough call. But maybe the tougher call is Brendan Rodgers at Leicester? Has he stagnated? Winning FA Cup was a nice catch, but missing out on CL on the final day - TWICE - must be really worrying.

I still think he's done a good job with a club like Leicester. But the owners may be wondering: "Hm... maybe the club needs a different spark and direction." Sometimes, a manager is sacked not because of poor results, but stagnancy.

I have many good friends who are Liverpool fans. And for the modern era, the reigns of Hodgson and Rodgers seem to be the gloomiest for them. Not so much about the lack of results and playstyle, but just the fatalistic feeling of defeat. Some managers (and also players) are just out of depth. You just can sense and know it.

Rodgers is definitely stagnating but do you see anyone else reach top4 with leiceister? I dont so imo he deserves to keep the job and maybe he will get lucky one season

Maybe Bielsa? Or Benitez? Or some up-and-comer wild card?

Rodgers is a known quantity. I think he's already reached his peak. If Top 5-7 stability is the management's goal, then he's a keeper.

I still think he’s got room for growth, whether that’s at Leicester remains to be seen. Aside from the cup win I think Leicester have improved in the league this season, but the elephant in the room of sorts is they’ve failed to make the CL even with seasons where other members of the traditional top 4 have been disappointing. They could have an even better season next time out and be 5th again or 6th, Chelsea and Liverpool will surely be better, City probably won’t collapse and United will be competitive too.

As for folks mentioning Conte for United, I can’t see that being a good fit. Perhaps he could make his preferred tactical approaches work but his tendency to want everything his way or he’s off and United really not operating all that cohesively above the coach level and it’s a potential disaster.

{CC}StealthBlue

United States41117 Posts

June 04 2021 04:49 GMT

#2904

So we face Mexico as they just beat Costa Rica on pens.

Pandemona

Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts

June 04 2021 18:03 GMT

#2905

National games are interesting but should never read too much into a result, a win is a win and you move on, especially in tournament mode.

Beating Honduras 1-0 and then beating Mexico 2-1 to win the cup means its all good right xd

RKC

2848 Posts

June 05 2021 02:56 GMT

#2906

Wow! England as the favourites? They have home advantage. Their group is relatively easy (as compared to Group F which has France-Germany-Portugal). But still???

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/betting/football/euro-2020/euro-2020-latest-odds/

mahrgell

Germany3943 Posts

June 05 2021 06:42 GMT

#2907

On June 05 2021 11:56 RKC wrote:
Wow! England as the favourites? They have home advantage. Their group is relatively easy (as compared to Group F which has France-Germany-Portugal). But still???

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/betting/football/euro-2020/euro-2020-latest-odds/

National bookies always give worse odds for their team, effectively making them look stronger.
Which is not surprising, giving that their bettors tend ton overvalue the own team.

Thats why you basically should never bet on Germany with a German bookie etc.

E.g. with German bwin the (Euro style) odds are:
France 5.5
England 6
Belgium 6.5
Germany 8.5
Spain 9
Portugal 9
Italy 11
Windmills 13

DropBear

Australia4422 Posts

June 06 2021 13:28 GMT

#2908

I look forward to England losing in the quarter finals

Sapaio

Denmark2037 Posts

June 06 2021 15:57 GMT

#2909

On June 06 2021 22:28 DropBear wrote:
I look forward to England losing in the quarter finals

On penalty with miss from Kane.

RKC

2848 Posts

June 07 2021 04:22 GMT

#2910

Honestly, I struggle to see how England is even a Top 4 favourite. Sure, they have a strong strikeforce (but still not world-class at the level of France and Portugal). Their midfield and defence is okay-ish.

I suppose England's chances are somewhat improved because other powerhouses like Germany, Spain and Italy are still in some transition phase (but all things equal, I would still place my bets on proven winners). Also, based on the brackets, England is bound to meet Group F teams in RO16 or QF (depending whether they finish 1st or 2nd in the group). So yes, a penalty shoutout loss to the Germans is on the cards...

WombaT

Northern Ireland27228 Posts

June 07 2021 05:38 GMT

#2911

On June 07 2021 13:22 RKC wrote:
Honestly, I struggle to see how England is even a Top 4 favourite. Sure, they have a strong strikeforce (but still not world-class at the level of France and Portugal). Their midfield and defence is okay-ish.

I suppose England's chances are somewhat improved because other powerhouses like Germany, Spain and Italy are still in some transition phase (but all things equal, I would still place my bets on proven winners). Also, based on the brackets, England is bound to meet Group F teams in RO16 or QF (depending whether they finish 1st or 2nd in the group). So yes, a penalty shoutout loss to the Germans is on the cards...

Germany got spanked what 6-0 by Spain not too long ago, and it’s not quite the vintage Spain we’ve seen in previous tournaments either.

England have one of the outright best squads here, they’re stacked down the flanks but yeah centre back is a worry.

France are the only real ‘wow’ in terms of squad and even then I don’t think they’re quite as good as they should be, I’d still have them as favourites but with that talent they should be winning tournaments back to back like Spain did.

Everyone else’s squad has some kind of hole in it. A few years ago I’d have said Belgium were pretty well covered all across the shop but Alderwireld and Vertongen went off a relative cliff from their form a few years ago.

Italy are interesting in that they have a top coach (by international standards) and have been going a bit under the radar with the run they’re on. Not the best squad out there but Mancini might be able to squeeze more out of them, like Conte managed to do with a really limited squad by Italian standards.

All in all should hopefully be great, I think the lack of a real, real outstanding side bar France maybe should make it compelling, my only real worry is all the players are just wrecked from this Covid season

{CC}StealthBlue

United States41117 Posts

June 07 2021 05:54 GMT

#2912

Instant classic. Shout out to the Mexican fans that threw cans and bottles at team USA but hit the Mexican players lol

Edit: Mods make this the new banner image for this thread.

[image loading]

sharkie

Austria18713 Posts

June 07 2021 13:09 GMT

#2913

Georginio Wijnaldum: Liverpool midfielder set to join Paris St-Germain on free transfer

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/57384537

Haha Barca = PSG

InFiNitY[pG]

Germany3474 Posts

June 07 2021 19:15 GMT

#2914

With Hummels and Müller back, Germany do have a pretty good looking lineup. [image loading]

Pandemona

Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts

June 07 2021 19:33 GMT

#2915

Lack of Timo is concerning!

aseq

Netherlands4015 Posts

June 07 2021 20:39 GMT

#2916

On June 08 2021 04:33 Pandemona wrote:
Lack of Timo is concerning!

To me it isn't. He's good at running, receiving balls and missing them. When pressing high, there's no room for him, so he's better used against big nations. Guess Volland is the most natural true 9 in this squad?

Pandemona

Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts

June 07 2021 20:48 GMT

#2917

Haha but Timo scored when he came on very quickly in this 7-1 drubbing :D

Yeah i guess he shouldn't start but i mean playing him one side and Sane the other with Muller through the middle could work in a false 9, im not sure. All i know is Germany's group is stupidly hard and if they finished 1st or 2nd in it i would be very surprised!

InFiNitY[pG]

Germany3474 Posts

June 07 2021 21:20 GMT

#2918

Really? Portugal is good and everything but there is absolutely no way they are favourites over Germany in this group. I still believe that Russia was a negative outlier for our team.
Literally the majority of this squad won the Champion's league either this year or last year.

evilfatsh1t

Australia8913 Posts

June 08 2021 02:39 GMT

#2919

i would say france germany and portugal all have an equal 33% chance to drop out of groups.
france and germany are more "stacked" but that doesnt mean portugal have a bad team. imo its one of the best teams theyve produced and the presence of ronaldo still provides an x factor for me.

DropBear

Australia4422 Posts

June 08 2021 05:40 GMT

#2920

Would be really funny if Hungary somehow managed to top the group, even without Szoboszlai

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