• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:04
CEST 22:04
KST 05:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format12[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Is the larve respawn broken? BGE Stara Zagora to be held again in June 2025 Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29
Tourneys
WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Etiquete rules in Asl? screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool
Tourneys
[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8427 users

NBA General Discussion - Page 8

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 103 Next
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-05 22:39:48
December 05 2019 22:38 GMT
#141
[image loading]


I feel a little sorry for Paul, but player consensus is that he he is an asshole and pretty much deserves this. Welp!

www.theringer.com
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
December 05 2019 23:36 GMT
#142
u guys are out of your minds if u actually believe there is even a chance of the rockets/spurs game getting replayed lol
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
December 06 2019 06:58 GMT
#143
On December 05 2019 07:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The NBA has ordered games replayed in the past when there was very little time left on the clock. Its going to be tough to replay this game with almost 8 minutes left. What would they do? play it like a double-header in baseball and have an hour break between games?

My favourite incident where a game had to be replayed occurred in baseball in the George Brett "pine tar" incident.
George Brett goes bonkers. He iwas eventually awarded the home run and the Yankees ended up losing the game once it was replayed. There was also a wild fracas over securing the baseball bat Brett used. LOL.

+ Show Spoiler +

Show nested quote +
On December 05 2019 06:49 Jerubaal wrote:
Honestly, this is just karma.

Harden deserves some credit for showing so much restraint. Of course, he has bamboozled officials so many times in the past so like you said.. i guess its karma.

The way the general public and NBA currently responds to athletes doing even the slightest thing out of line I wonder what the suspension would be for James Harden had he acted like George Brett last night.


I don't know why expecting grown men who play a game for 10s-100s of millions of dollars to not act like they are emotionally incontinent 13 years olds is a big ask. Screaming at the refs does nothing, has always done nothing. "Asking for a clarification" does nothing. If you have an issue, your first thought should be to challenge the play. Not crouch down and put your hands out like you're about to help your wife give birth. What did they think? That they were going to get a free reversal? So, yes, karma was served.

@TakeTV The counterargument would be that the Spurs didn't know about the basket and couldn't adjust accordingly.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17690 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-06 21:36:22
December 06 2019 18:23 GMT
#144
Knicks Fire Fizdale.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28238796/sources-knicks-fire-david-fizdale-eastern-conference-worst-4-18-mark

Houston officially protested the game.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28232954/sources-rockets-protest-loss-spurs-harden-dunk-not-counted-want-replay-end-game
On December 06 2019 15:58 Jerubaal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2019 07:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The NBA has ordered games replayed in the past when there was very little time left on the clock. Its going to be tough to replay this game with almost 8 minutes left. What would they do? play it like a double-header in baseball and have an hour break between games?

My favourite incident where a game had to be replayed occurred in baseball in the George Brett "pine tar" incident.
George Brett goes bonkers. He iwas eventually awarded the home run and the Yankees ended up losing the game once it was replayed. There was also a wild fracas over securing the baseball bat Brett used. LOL.

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbEHAsZxRYo#t=150s

On December 05 2019 06:49 Jerubaal wrote:
Honestly, this is just karma.

Harden deserves some credit for showing so much restraint. Of course, he has bamboozled officials so many times in the past so like you said.. i guess its karma.

The way the general public and NBA currently responds to athletes doing even the slightest thing out of line I wonder what the suspension would be for James Harden had he acted like George Brett last night.

I don't know why expecting grown men who play a game for 10s-100s of millions of dollars to not act like they are emotionally incontinent 13 years olds is a big ask. Screaming at the refs does nothing, has always done nothing. "Asking for a clarification" does nothing. If you have an issue, your first thought should be to challenge the play. Not crouch down and put your hands out like you're about to help your wife give birth. What did they think? That they were going to get a free reversal? So, yes, karma was served.

"has always done nothing"
had George Brett and the KC Royals not said anything the Yankees would've won the game. The yelling and screaming worked. George Brett was correctly awarded a home run and the Royals won the baseball game.

Rickey Henderson was one of the biggest ball-strike complainers in the history of MLB... but he always kept his complaints clean and dignified. He drew over 2,000 walks in his career.

Done right... complaining works.

I'm a proponent of management personnel dealing with front line officials the way Vince Lombardi and Lou Lamoriello did during their careers. However, I realize players, in order to play at peak levels of performance, will get emotional during games. Its part of performing at a peak level in a game with physical contact. Overall, I'd like to see less complaining in the NBA. I realize zero complaining is impossible unless the player is willing to play below peak performance levels and play like a disembodied robot.

Had James Harden completely flipped out the way George Brett did I'd be totally cool with it.
On December 06 2019 15:58 Jerubaal wrote:
I don't know why expecting grown men who play a game for 10s-100s of millions of dollars to not act like they are emotionally incontinent 13 years olds is a big ask.

meh, every adult human has a child sub-self that is an important aspect of who they are. Playing a game allows one to enter that child like state.

with cameras absolutely everywhere in today's modern world ... i'm totally cool with people getting overly emotional ... even maudlin at times. its part of being human. As an aside, I'm a big fan of the "Sammy Maudlin Show".
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
December 09 2019 02:31 GMT
#145
On December 06 2019 15:58 Jerubaal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2019 07:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The NBA has ordered games replayed in the past when there was very little time left on the clock. Its going to be tough to replay this game with almost 8 minutes left. What would they do? play it like a double-header in baseball and have an hour break between games?

My favourite incident where a game had to be replayed occurred in baseball in the George Brett "pine tar" incident.
George Brett goes bonkers. He iwas eventually awarded the home run and the Yankees ended up losing the game once it was replayed. There was also a wild fracas over securing the baseball bat Brett used. LOL.

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbEHAsZxRYo#t=150s

On December 05 2019 06:49 Jerubaal wrote:
Honestly, this is just karma.

Harden deserves some credit for showing so much restraint. Of course, he has bamboozled officials so many times in the past so like you said.. i guess its karma.

The way the general public and NBA currently responds to athletes doing even the slightest thing out of line I wonder what the suspension would be for James Harden had he acted like George Brett last night.


I don't know why expecting grown men who play a game for 10s-100s of millions of dollars to not act like they are emotionally incontinent 13 years olds is a big ask. Screaming at the refs does nothing, has always done nothing. "Asking for a clarification" does nothing. If you have an issue, your first thought should be to challenge the play. Not crouch down and put your hands out like you're about to help your wife give birth. What did they think? That they were going to get a free reversal? So, yes, karma was served.

@TakeTV The counterargument would be that the Spurs didn't know about the basket and couldn't adjust accordingly.


On the one hand, it's the Rockets so it's very deserved. On the other hand, your choice of words makes it sound like you are blaming the players for this. Failing to challenge is on Dantoni. It's a coach's challenge, not a players' challenge.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
December 09 2019 02:43 GMT
#146
--- Nuked ---
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
December 09 2019 02:53 GMT
#147
What was the call for that? I assume it was offensive interference. But considering the Rockets gave up a 20 point lead, that ironic 2-point loss is not an excuse.
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17690 Posts
December 09 2019 04:56 GMT
#148
if Doncic follows through on this .. i think its a good move on his part.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28256878/mavs-luka-doncic-need-tone-officials
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
December 09 2019 08:11 GMT
#149
On December 09 2019 11:31 andrewlt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2019 15:58 Jerubaal wrote:
On December 05 2019 07:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The NBA has ordered games replayed in the past when there was very little time left on the clock. Its going to be tough to replay this game with almost 8 minutes left. What would they do? play it like a double-header in baseball and have an hour break between games?

My favourite incident where a game had to be replayed occurred in baseball in the George Brett "pine tar" incident.
George Brett goes bonkers. He iwas eventually awarded the home run and the Yankees ended up losing the game once it was replayed. There was also a wild fracas over securing the baseball bat Brett used. LOL.

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbEHAsZxRYo#t=150s

On December 05 2019 06:49 Jerubaal wrote:
Honestly, this is just karma.

Harden deserves some credit for showing so much restraint. Of course, he has bamboozled officials so many times in the past so like you said.. i guess its karma.

The way the general public and NBA currently responds to athletes doing even the slightest thing out of line I wonder what the suspension would be for James Harden had he acted like George Brett last night.


I don't know why expecting grown men who play a game for 10s-100s of millions of dollars to not act like they are emotionally incontinent 13 years olds is a big ask. Screaming at the refs does nothing, has always done nothing. "Asking for a clarification" does nothing. If you have an issue, your first thought should be to challenge the play. Not crouch down and put your hands out like you're about to help your wife give birth. What did they think? That they were going to get a free reversal? So, yes, karma was served.

@TakeTV The counterargument would be that the Spurs didn't know about the basket and couldn't adjust accordingly.


On the one hand, it's the Rockets so it's very deserved. On the other hand, your choice of words makes it sound like you are blaming the players for this. Failing to challenge is on Dantoni. It's a coach's challenge, not a players' challenge.


a) It's the same culture. It feeds into each other. The coaches do it too much too and if I were to criticize them for it, people on this board would defend them. b) It definitely could be the case that the jawing at the ref either distracts the coach or impedes communication. I looked at the gamecast and the first time they show D'Antoni with the ref is right at the 30 sec mark.

The system definitely needs some work. I'm not sure if there is a "flag" they throw or some specific phrase they are supposed to utter. Clearly it was not instinctual to D'Antoni. I stand by original assertion that Harden's running around and pleading with the ref was counterproductive.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
December 09 2019 11:04 GMT
#150
Ginobili screaming at the refs about his pass that went through the hoop got the refs to review it

JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17690 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-09 14:29:56
December 09 2019 14:07 GMT
#151
Ya, when the officials get a call incorrect it helps to complain and sometimes even flip out. The officials do make errors and they will, on some occasions, reverse their calls. The problem is that NBA players are having an extensive spaz session after almost every play.

Time to discuss one of my favourite topics : Spencer Dinwiddie !

Brooklyn is 9-3 with Dinwiddie running the team and 4-7 with Irving running the team.

Nice win by Brooklyn yesterday. Assists by the starters were 8,4,3,3,2. The median assist total of the 4 starters with Dinwiddie running the offense is 12. When Irving runs the offense the median assist total of the other starters is 7. I'll bet you the differences in the hockey assist #s are the similar I'll bet you Brooklyn's starters are getting twice as many hockey assists when Dinwiddie runs the team.

Irving is clearly superior to Dinwiddie when it comes to dribbling thru people and piling up counting stats. Both Boston and Brooklyn played much better defense without Irving. It seems Irving is exhausted right after dribbling the ball thru 5 people as he runs 250 feet to weave to the hoop while his 4 team mates stand around and watch. These frequent hero plays by Irving mess up his ability to defend during the very next play.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17690 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-10 19:22:49
December 10 2019 14:17 GMT
#152
Tickets 20 rows back behind one of the baskets are selling for $800 each for Wednesday night's Raptors//Clippers game. Raptors regular season tickets are sometimes selling for more than Maple Leaf tickets.

Brooklyn Nets owner investing in eSports.
https://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/28267351/brooklyn-nets-owner-tsai-invests-10-million-g2-esports
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
KelianQatar
Profile Joined December 2012
303 Posts
December 13 2019 21:09 GMT
#153
Wow, come down here, it's only $29-$40, plus you’ll get a Wizards T-shirt and two 24-ounce Anheuser-Busch Beer!

But I can't wait to see tonight's Heat Lakers game. Lebron versus Butler

JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17690 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-13 21:17:10
December 13 2019 21:15 GMT
#154
On December 14 2019 06:09 KelianQatar wrote:
Wow, come down here, it's only $29-$40, plus you’ll get a Wizards T-shirt and two 24-ounce Anheuser-Busch Beer!


16 minutes before tip off this was the Minnesota Timberwolves arena. The ticket prices are dirt cheap.
[image loading]

Toronto Raptors games are no longer for basketball fans. Its become the place "to see and be seen". All the socialites of the Great White North turn out for the games. Its B-list celebrities everywhere! If you want to hang out with some hard core basketball fans you have to go to Mississauga.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
KelianQatar
Profile Joined December 2012
303 Posts
December 13 2019 21:27 GMT
#155
On December 14 2019 06:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
[........ Its B-list celebrities everywhere! .......


Do you mean like the Toronto International Film Festival?
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17690 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-14 01:40:13
December 14 2019 01:35 GMT
#156
30 years ago a Psychic Holistic Healer correctly predicted last night's Cleveland//San Antonio game as a 117 to 109 win for Cleveland.

Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-14 12:26:37
December 14 2019 12:26 GMT
#157
On December 01 2019 19:18 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Alright. Let's talk about this. The facts are out.

Poll: Draymond Green

Relative Superstar (needs complementary cast)) (4)
 
50%

Average but hyped by his loudmouth + GSW rings (3)
 
38%

Bonafide Superstar (Elite defender) (1)
 
13%

Overrated but hyped by his loudmouth + GSW rings (0)
 
0%

Scrub who road KD, SC30, KT's coattails (0)
 
0%

8 total votes

Your vote: Draymond Green

(Vote): Bonafide Superstar (Elite defender)
(Vote): Relative Superstar (needs complementary cast))
(Vote): Average but hyped by his loudmouth + GSW rings
(Vote): Overrated but hyped by his loudmouth + GSW rings
(Vote): Scrub who road KD, SC30, KT's coattails


I'd like to ask all 3 people that think that Draymond is "average" to never voice their opinion on anything basketball ever again. thanks
TL+ Member
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
December 14 2019 15:26 GMT
#158
no one would call draymond a superstar, so the options there are limited
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
December 15 2019 08:55 GMT
#159
On December 15 2019 00:26 zev318 wrote:
no one would call draymond a superstar, so the options there are limited

Would it be fair to consider Green as a Garnet without the offense?
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
December 15 2019 08:59 GMT
#160
Harden only needs a 54-point game to be the first player to score all points 50-60. What a great offensive genius
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 103 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
17:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Shameless vs Lambo
SKillous vs Cham
Percival vs Harstem
ShoWTimE vs Krystianer
SteadfastSC292
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 712
SteadfastSC 292
UpATreeSC 165
BRAT_OK 82
JuggernautJason62
CosmosSc2 51
MindelVK 27
EmSc Tv 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Mong 190
910 42
Dota 2
elazer178
Trikslyr72
League of Legends
KnowMe67
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1939
FalleN 1808
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu395
Other Games
singsing1658
Beastyqt649
C9.Mang0123
XaKoH 88
RuFF_SC229
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2512
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 17
EmSc2Tv 17
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 105
• Reevou 5
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 32
• 80smullet 21
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra950
• imaqtpie925
• Shiphtur320
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12h 56m
CrankTV Team League
14h 56m
WardiTV Qualifier
15h 56m
Epic.LAN
16h 56m
Big Brain Bouts
19h 56m
SHIN vs Elazer
Percival vs Nicoract
Reynor vs Lambo
Replay Cast
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 12h
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
1d 13h
Epic.LAN
1d 16h
IPSL
1d 19h
Dragon vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.