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On December 13 2021 00:17 Pandemona wrote:The amount of written FIA rules broken in the last stretch was hilarious. How on earth Hamilton stayed so calm is crazy fair play to him. This wont be the last we here of this im sure. Show nested quote +On December 13 2021 00:17 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On December 13 2021 00:07 Amui wrote:On December 12 2021 23:59 Penev wrote:On December 12 2021 23:56 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
I haven't been watching F1 long, but that felt... totally bullshit?
Am I wrong in feeling like Max was practically handed the win by the FIA given how that last debacle was handled? It was insanely lucky for Max but no, the only thing that was out of the ordinary was not letting lapped cars overtake the pace car initially. The farcical part is not letting all the lapped cars go, but that would mean the race finishes under yellow flag. Lewis absolutely had that race until that decision came out.It should've been a red flag IMO if they wanted racing at the end. A crash at the hotel area would always take a number of laps to clear under safety car, and with so few til the end there was no way it would've been more than a couple of laps to go. Lewis fought hard, but on cold worn hard tires that were probably 3s a lap slower at the end, there was very little he could do. Absolute joke of a race directing decision. Not that both Max or Lewis aren't deserving champions, but for the last race of the season come down to this is a bit sad. Apologies for the dumb question: why would letting all lapped cars go mean the race finishes under the yellow flag? Because the SC went straight into the pit after 5 went past, if they waited and let the rest go through he would have been past the pit entrance and had to wait until the following lap to come in, aka race over.
I see.
And I now definitely feel like he was handed the win XD
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On December 13 2021 00:17 Pandemona wrote:The amount of written FIA rules broken in the last stretch was hilarious. How on earth Hamilton stayed so calm is crazy fair play to him. This wont be the last we here of this im sure. Show nested quote +On December 13 2021 00:17 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On December 13 2021 00:07 Amui wrote:On December 12 2021 23:59 Penev wrote:On December 12 2021 23:56 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
I haven't been watching F1 long, but that felt... totally bullshit?
Am I wrong in feeling like Max was practically handed the win by the FIA given how that last debacle was handled? It was insanely lucky for Max but no, the only thing that was out of the ordinary was not letting lapped cars overtake the pace car initially. The farcical part is not letting all the lapped cars go, but that would mean the race finishes under yellow flag. Lewis absolutely had that race until that decision came out.It should've been a red flag IMO if they wanted racing at the end. A crash at the hotel area would always take a number of laps to clear under safety car, and with so few til the end there was no way it would've been more than a couple of laps to go. Lewis fought hard, but on cold worn hard tires that were probably 3s a lap slower at the end, there was very little he could do. Absolute joke of a race directing decision. Not that both Max or Lewis aren't deserving champions, but for the last race of the season come down to this is a bit sad. Apologies for the dumb question: why would letting all lapped cars go mean the race finishes under the yellow flag? Because the SC went straight into the pit after 5 went past, if they waited and let the rest go through he would have been past the pit entrance and had to wait until the following lap to come in, aka race over.
I took a look at the rules, the restart procedure is at race directors discretion, all lapped cars can overtake, and then once the last lapped car passed, the safety car will come in next lap. The race absolutely should've ended under yellow even if you added a lap(not 2), or else it should've resumed with lapped cars in between.
From a rules perspective, Masi has absolutely fucked up. I would expect Merc to put in a formal protest if they haven't already.
For reference, I am not a hardcore Max or Lewis fan. I want to see good, fair racing. Last few races hasn't been good racing on Max's part, and stewarding decisions have been poor as well.
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On December 13 2021 00:50 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2021 00:17 Pandemona wrote:The amount of written FIA rules broken in the last stretch was hilarious. How on earth Hamilton stayed so calm is crazy fair play to him. This wont be the last we here of this im sure. On December 13 2021 00:17 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On December 13 2021 00:07 Amui wrote:On December 12 2021 23:59 Penev wrote:On December 12 2021 23:56 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
I haven't been watching F1 long, but that felt... totally bullshit?
Am I wrong in feeling like Max was practically handed the win by the FIA given how that last debacle was handled? It was insanely lucky for Max but no, the only thing that was out of the ordinary was not letting lapped cars overtake the pace car initially. The farcical part is not letting all the lapped cars go, but that would mean the race finishes under yellow flag. Lewis absolutely had that race until that decision came out.It should've been a red flag IMO if they wanted racing at the end. A crash at the hotel area would always take a number of laps to clear under safety car, and with so few til the end there was no way it would've been more than a couple of laps to go. Lewis fought hard, but on cold worn hard tires that were probably 3s a lap slower at the end, there was very little he could do. Absolute joke of a race directing decision. Not that both Max or Lewis aren't deserving champions, but for the last race of the season come down to this is a bit sad. Apologies for the dumb question: why would letting all lapped cars go mean the race finishes under the yellow flag? Because the SC went straight into the pit after 5 went past, if they waited and let the rest go through he would have been past the pit entrance and had to wait until the following lap to come in, aka race over. I took a look at the rules, the restart procedure is at race directors discretion, all lapped cars can overtake, and then once the last lapped car passed, the safety car will come in next lap. The race absolutely should've ended under yellow even if you added 2 laps, or else it should've resumed with lapped cars in between. From a rules perspective, Masi has absolutely fucked up. I would expect Merc to put in a formal protest if they haven't already.
They have.
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Ye 2 protests filed. One vs Max for overtaking during SC, one vs the classification.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51492 Posts
I get why Masi did this he wanted it to be let to race and let race end however far to many variables fucked that up. Pits from Red Bull end so the only fair way would have been Masi to RED FLAG the race and to restart it after race cleared from a new grid, which would have been so hype last few laps would have been insane, both lewis and max on super soft tyres battling it out.
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No point imo. At best they will fire Masi.
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On December 13 2021 00:27 Laurens wrote:But not like this 
Yea.....
I preferred Max to win too. Lewis got shafted big time by the Mick/Latifi incident
Checo defending - fucking hell. That was brilliant
Masi should not be the race director anymore. He is just too inept
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A fantastic shitshow 
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I really hoped this wouldn't end in controversy but alas..
A thing that I wish they'd change is that teams can only formally request an investigation during the race if they think something has been missed by the officials but not this constant calling to the race director we have gotten so often this season (and before). Good for the memes I guess but ultimately not a helpful thing.
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What a great race;
Congratulations to verstappen, new champion of the world; only I am sad Norris got another premature puncture;
Max deserves this win, 10-5 in quali whole year and 10-idk in races wins
Also, congrats to limi Raikkonen for starting his 349th race, longer than barrichello; what a legend; I remember watching in 1994 his shananigans
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My post from yesterday basically summarizes my thoughts on Max vs. Lewis. I'm happy for Max but no matter who won, it would have been a hollow victory given the circumstances.
On December 11 2021 09:17 Ben... wrote:
I’m pretty ambivalent on who wins. It’d be nice to see a new champion but if Hamilton wins I won’t be sad. I do think for most of the season Max was the better performer of the two (I generally think the first half of this season was the weakest Hamilton’s performed over the last few years. He made quite a few uncharacteristic mistakes) but they’ve both been in a league of their own for the second half of the season. Hamilton has really upped his game again and it’s been clear the last few races that this is putting so much pressure on Max that we are starting to seeing cracks form.
I just hope the championship is decided on the track and not by the stewards. Masi and the stewards have already done enough damage this year. We don’t need more of that.
The thing I didn't want to happen happened. On the one hand I kinda get it, Masi was in between a rock and a hard place and having one lap of racing was best they could manage from that bad situation, but on the other hand how he went about it was about as bad as you could do. Whether it was actually impartial or not, the decision to let some of the lapped cars unlap themselves but not others had the appearance of favouring Verstappen (though ending under safety car would have made it looked like they favoured Hamilton). In hindsight Masi probably should have just red flagged the race at lap 54 then restarted it but he didn't and this is what we were handed instead.
As I've said many times before, I think Masi needs to be gone. This was yet another example of him losing control of the situation then having to do something questionable to try to make up for it. He doesn't apply rules equally and seems to fold under pressure from the teams. I think we should also conclude that teams should not have that direct of a level of contact with the race director. It should not be the case that Wolff and Horner can just radio into the director and scream at him for doing something unfavourable to a given team. Instead, a designated engineer for each team should be set up to be in contact with the director and stewards for specific situations only (give them heads up for mechanical problems, etc.), and otherwise there should be no contact between the teams and those running the race.
What a disappointing end to what could have been one of the best seasons in years. The last 6 races of this season have completely ruined it.
edit: I forgot that whole "Toto, it's called motor racing" comment from Masi. Wow he sucks.
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Merc brought the Man City lawyer to the meeting with the stewards.
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https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/formula1/mercedes-protest-max-verstappen-abu-dhabi-b1974567.html
To the surprise of no one. Masi does have his on the dry tho, there is a clause in the rules which states he can do exactly what he did.
No matter what Masi chose to do at the end there, he would have handed either RB or Mercedes the win. I honestly don't think the decision to have them race was the worst one, when Mercedes had several good chances to pit for better tires, and chose not to (Although I concede it's a difficult choice to make as well, giving up position for better tires. However it was the obvious correct decision to pit Lewis on both chances. He was so much faster, he would easily have caught Max and passed).
That said, Masi had put himself in between the rock and the hard place here. They would never have been in this position in the first place if he had done his job previously, and not been wishy washy with the rules all season. This race would have looked a lot different if they upheld their own rules on Max passing Lewis in the beginning (And don't even get me started on it. Lewis left the track completely and gained a second, something he would never have done if there had been gravel on the outside. Stick to the track, or lose position. It's extremely easy. And don't give me that 'But you can't just pass and park your car ahead-' yes, you can. 90% of ALL overtakes is exactly that. You squeeze yourself on the inside, taking a worse racing line, and force your opponent to slow down for your car which has now become an obstacle for them. This is how racing is done across all genres. If you don't want people passing, you have to block by taking the less optimal racing line yourself)
All in all, this is the perfect way to end off this clusterfuck of a season. Max didn't deserve to win today's race, but he did deserve to win this season, so I'm completely fine with how this ended. But I would be fuuuming as a Mercedes fan atm, and I don't begrudge them at all. F1 needs to change. This dice rolling shit just isn't working out
edit: Protest has been denied, as expected
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Appealed again so not over yet. Toto is probably taking this to court. Wouldn’t be surprised if Hamilton has had enough after this and calls it quits.
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On December 13 2021 04:47 Zaros wrote:
Appealed again so not over yet. Toto is probably taking this to court. Wouldn’t be surprised if Hamilton has had enough after this and calls it quits.
If I'm not mistaken Mercedes has to present new evidence though, if they do not it is immediately denied.
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Everyone likes to be polemic nowadays; educated people who salute the winner and are compassionate to the loser are not a thing anymore I guess;
There is just no decorum I guess; it’s called racing for a reason
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A funny mistake I noticed on the F1 site:
Verstappen's 10th and final victory of the season was his most crucial in the tightest of title fights that concluded on Sunday at Yas Marina Circuit. The Dutchman is now his country's first world champion, Red Bull's first since 2013, and Honda's first since Ayrton Prost in 1991.
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On December 13 2021 04:55 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2021 04:47 Zaros wrote:
Appealed again so not over yet. Toto is probably taking this to court. Wouldn’t be surprised if Hamilton has had enough after this and calls it quits. If I'm not mistaken Mercedes has to present new evidence though, if they do not it is immediately denied.
Yeah probably for the FIA procedure but they can go outside the FIA procedure after this one.
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On December 13 2021 05:20 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2021 04:55 Penev wrote:On December 13 2021 04:47 Zaros wrote:
Appealed again so not over yet. Toto is probably taking this to court. Wouldn’t be surprised if Hamilton has had enough after this and calls it quits. If I'm not mistaken Mercedes has to present new evidence though, if they do not it is immediately denied. Yeah probably for the FIA procedure but they can go outside the FIA procedure after this one.
Can they though? I can imagine if someone is discriminated against for some reason by an organization like the FIA you can take it to court but for questioning their interpretations of their own rules? That does seem unlikely imo, is there any precedent for that? Also I doubt Daimler-Benz would want to support such a step.
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Exciting season! For all the complaining on the internet, I can only see this help F1 viewership, so from a long term fan perspective, it's been good.
Max is my 2nd favorite driver after Leclerc, so in a way I am happy. I've gained more respect and appreciation for Hamilton through the second half of the season, he really does compose himself well. Toto on the other hand, no so much.
For Masi, there would be an outcry with whatever happened. Red flagging the whole race was one option that probably would feel most fair when taking all stakeholders into account, but it wouldn't feel the most sporting either. At the end of the day though, it's a balance between sport and show, and that's probably what I would have done. However I think that safety car periods are too long, and they need to look at ways to lessen the time with breaks in racing. I think the rules should be changed to allow lapped cars to unlap themselves a lot sooner (as long as they drive under VSC speeds)... This would have removed the headaches today. The track was clear, I think delaying bringing the safety car in for another lap or two would be anti sporting.
I think Masi should have some kind of secretary, and the team communication should go through them, the race director has enough on his plate during chaotic events. I sided with Brundle on the first lap ruling as well, that was very clear cut to me, Hamilton should need to give the place back or receive a 5 second penalty.
I was pleasantly surprised this year that overtaking was reasonable in difficulty... I think making it much easier makes track position not mean much, though next year if passing on straights is a little bit more difficult, but in corners it's easier, that's good too.
My biggest complaint this year with F1 was the video feed. There's many drivers I like in the mid field, and too often the overtakes weren't shown at all, instead we would get 5 laps just zoomed in on Hamilton. Second biggest would probably be the need for more consistent rulings, but I think the severity was exaggerated a bit. Either way, awesome season, I hope we get one that comes close to this level sometime soon.
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EPT
