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On October 21 2024 06:47 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2024 05:56 Penev wrote:
I wonder what Max's problem was btw; He certainly wasn't as fast as he was yesterday.
E: Hmm, Davidson agrees with the penalty; Apparently it doesn't matter Max went of the track. The rules benefit the defender too much if he's correct imo. Yeah I kinda feel the fair way to address it is if you go off the track like max did trying to defend the position, you get a 5s penalty for forcing another driver off the track, and then Norris gets 5s for overtaking off the track if he holds the position. Gotta remedy the driving standards somewhere, and a double penalty is a good place to start.
I agree completely, was just thinking that while I was reading a bit more about it haha. Another thing Davidson said I also agree with is that we just shouldn't have these run off areas.
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On October 21 2024 07:03 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2024 06:47 Amui wrote:On October 21 2024 05:56 Penev wrote:
I wonder what Max's problem was btw; He certainly wasn't as fast as he was yesterday.
E: Hmm, Davidson agrees with the penalty; Apparently it doesn't matter Max went of the track. The rules benefit the defender too much if he's correct imo. Yeah I kinda feel the fair way to address it is if you go off the track like max did trying to defend the position, you get a 5s penalty for forcing another driver off the track, and then Norris gets 5s for overtaking off the track if he holds the position. Gotta remedy the driving standards somewhere, and a double penalty is a good place to start. I agree completely, was just thinking that while I was reading a bit more about it haha. Another thing Davidson said I also agree with is that we just shouldn't have these run off areas.
Runoff areas that are made of asphalt rather than gravel is mostly due to motogp, where gravel have to be used a lot more sparingly than you otherwise could if it was just F1. Gravel on the outside of a high speed corner for instance would be outright lethal. So I don't think we'll see a huge change with these for tracks that are shared with motorcycle racing (which are most of the permanent ones).
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Yeah, I know. But ideally we shouldn't have them in F1.
A thing they could easily do though is changing the pole position to the left side of the track. Lando could've done more to protect the inside perhaps but I think pole should be a little more of a benefit than it is in cota.
E: Just read the Steward's document and they actually did take take into account Max pushing Lando of the track. That's why they gave a 5s penalty instead of a 10s one. It just comes down to, with these rules, Max was ahead at the apex which makes it his corner. I noticed all broadcasters were pretty certain Lando would get a penalty so McLaren should've known as well. Perhaps they thought Lando creating a 5s gap gave them better chances for 3rd than attempting another overtake. It could have been a 10s penalty though so idk.
The document:
stewards_document_for_lando_norris_5second
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Still a lot of tactical imperfections from McLaren yesterday
Not putting piastri on a different strategy - his race was pretty anonymous, could have tried to do something different;
Conserving the mediums for too long, too much tyre management in the beginning, the gap to Verstappen when Norris pitted was 7 seconds;
And, probably most revenant, if they had just told lando to not think about the incident, not give back the position, and just push flat out, maybe, perhaps maybe, that 0.9 seconds he ended up behind Verstappen with the penalty, would not have been revelant; because they did tell max to push flat out after the incident.
I guess what we have seen in the last races is that McLaren will bag the constructors championship, and Verstappen will win the drivers one.
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On October 21 2024 16:16 pebble444 wrote:
I guess what we have seen in the last races is that McLaren will bag the constructors championship, and Verstappen will win the drivers one.
Not if Ferrari keeps this up. They were dominant this weekend.
Max WDC looks confirmed though.
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On October 21 2024 07:11 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2024 07:03 Penev wrote:On October 21 2024 06:47 Amui wrote:On October 21 2024 05:56 Penev wrote:
I wonder what Max's problem was btw; He certainly wasn't as fast as he was yesterday.
E: Hmm, Davidson agrees with the penalty; Apparently it doesn't matter Max went of the track. The rules benefit the defender too much if he's correct imo. Yeah I kinda feel the fair way to address it is if you go off the track like max did trying to defend the position, you get a 5s penalty for forcing another driver off the track, and then Norris gets 5s for overtaking off the track if he holds the position. Gotta remedy the driving standards somewhere, and a double penalty is a good place to start. I agree completely, was just thinking that while I was reading a bit more about it haha. Another thing Davidson said I also agree with is that we just shouldn't have these run off areas. Runoff areas that are made of asphalt rather than gravel is mostly due to motogp, where gravel have to be used a lot more sparingly than you otherwise could if it was just F1. Gravel on the outside of a high speed corner for instance would be outright lethal. So I don't think we'll see a huge change with these for tracks that are shared with motorcycle racing (which are most of the permanent ones).
Sorry, but this is not true at all, and the most obvious example that proves it without having to explain is Mugello, which they've raced at for decades. Gravel areas disappearing is entirely on F1 and giving them the kind of room for error they're complaining about here, not even just for passing, but so that there is less opportunity to get beached and out of a race just because of a lockup or something.
Gravel is genuinely safer than asphalt for safety if Moto GP riders crash, because they don't lose speed if they go sliding along asphalt and it doesn't slow the bike down. A young rider in Moto 2 died because of this in Catalunya a while back going off in the second last corner, because he hit the safety barrier first and his bike followed him.
Pretty much everything on the purpose built F1 tracks that Moto GP was ever expected to share in the past, before they finally started building purpose built ones only for bikes, were all F1 focused, and the riders all mildly complained about it for years. The only time a circuit went against that was Sepang recently, and it's how I knew F1 wasn't going back there, when they re-surfaced the roads with a camber that favoured the bikes.
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Rough couple weeks for Merc.
From what I saw of George's last accident, it just bottomed out over the kerb and he was a passenger. Just nonstop sparks from the skid plates and he went around. Normally not an issue but it seems the new upgrades require the ride height to be set super low.
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On October 26 2024 09:00 Amui wrote:
Rough couple weeks for Merc.
From what I saw of George's last accident, it just bottomed out over the kerb and he was a passenger. Just nonstop sparks from the skid plates and he went around. Normally not an issue but it seems the new upgrades require the ride height to be set super low.
Hmm, I haven't been keeping up with these exact regulations as of late. Did they remove/lower the minimum ride height they added in 2022 to combat porpoising, which no one but Mercedes wanted, because, quote, "Just fix your damn car"?
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So McLarens protest for Lando's 5 second penalty last week was denied, as fully expected. The document explaining why Norris got a penalty was released 11 minutes after the initial protest period ended, which ups the requirement for protest to "New admissible evidence". McLaren tried to use this document as the new evidence, and the stewards basically just said "Yeah nah, you can't do that".
But it's interesting to see that the Stewards sympathises with McLaren in their own decision here:
However, the Stewards do note the following which is drawn to the attention of the regulatory authority:
The current "high bar" that exists in Article 14 and the fact that it appears to have been designed more for decisions that are taken as a result of a hearing where all parties are present, rather than in the pressurised environment of a race session, when decisions are taken, (as is allowed under the International Sporting Code), without all parties being present.
Basically saying "Yeah, the bar is too high. You might have had reasonable points which could have been brought up, but we are forced to dismiss your case based on technicalities of what constitutes as new evidence."
But all is not lost for us fans at least:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/articles/cn5wwzl052go
After a driver's meeting yesterday, FIA has agreed to revise the guidelines for these types of incidents, to be presented "later this season". Hopefully they completely get rid of the bullshit "It's ok to run people off track as long as your nose is ahead of the other car by a millimeter at the apex."
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Yeah, that's pretty deserved. Ngl pretty tired of Max just shoving people off track as part of his defending strategy. Max doesn't even seem surprised himself on the radio
edit: Guess he got last weekend's penalty this weekend..
edit2: 20 seconds penalty, and still comes out 7 seconds ahead of Perez. This man have just given up by the looks of it
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It's genuinely criminal that Sainz is going to Williams next year
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Vamos Carlos! Great weekend from him. But dumb, dumb, dumb race by Max; He should've just lost 6 points to Lando but he lost 10. Also dumb by Red Bull to not give the place back, those extra 10s made the extra 4 certain.
E: Forgot Lando got 2nd, not 3rd.
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here is an idea for next years sprint races: make it mandatory to pit to change tyres, even same compound; that would really spice things up, this year up until now i have found them very dry
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I rather have each team only sending 1 car for the sprint and it is their reserve driver who has to drive it 
And to the actual sprint race... The stewards sure took their time in calling for a VSC after Hulk suffered a mechanical sigh...
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Waiting that long for the VSC was an absolute travesty. People were racing right next to Hulkenberg casually walking off the track. Yellows alone isn't good enough for that. Remember, Bianchi's crash happened under yellows too
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Gonna be some busy mechanics today
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This is such a massive clusterfuck. So the start was aborted, but Lando (and everyone else followed) did an extra round anyways. I have no idea what the results of this is going to be. Everyone except Sainz gets a penalty?
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Max has to be the luckiest person alive I'm sure
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EPT
