EPT2016 - 2017 Football Thread - Page 71
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RvB
Netherlands6262 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6262 Posts
You're just putting unrealistic expectations on someone and then call him overrated. There are literally only 2 managers with more Champions Leagues on his name. For the record Mourinho has 2 CL's, 8 national leagues, 4 cups, 8 semi finals and has only 1 (22 vs 21) more title in total while he's considered a top coach by pretty much everyone. http://www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/10295298/jose-mourinho-v-pep-guardiola-the-story-of-the-rivalry | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
he then moves to bayern which is arguably the 2nd best team in the world (or 3rd if you consider rm to be better) and dominates a league that doesnt have anyone else to win it anyway, but falls short in CL repeatedly. mou won cl with fucking porto and inter and has won trophies in like...every league with a variety of teams of which only madrid is consistently considered to be top 5 in the world and im not even a mou fanboy. yeah hes man utd's coach now but ive never been a fan of his teams/management approach | ||
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Savatage
Italy182 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
The problem i have is he doesn't respect the leagues he plays in at all and throws his style 100% onto that team until it either breaks or works. In Bayern you can argue it didn't work but the fact that Bayern squad/team is vastly superior to anything else in that league it "worked" and won him titles. He has a huge test to see if this current City team can do it in this league quickly as not getting top 4 could be a possibility if we are still talking about this sort of run after the next 6 games. Mourinho is also struggling for first time in his career. He had a crazily bad season for Chelsea and got sacked and now steps into a Yanited team he thought he solved with his transfer dealings for that to heavily fall short so far too as he has no idea of his best 11 and the results so far are not good for him. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Didn't Mou start coaching top league teams before Guardiola did? Comparing their numbers is like comparing Neymar's with Messi's. 5 years difference is huge in football. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
Pande, I really don't get the thing about disrespecting the league. If the clubs wanted their team to play Catenaccio, they'd hire Mourinho, not Pep. BPL has 0 "style" anyway, that's why their teams have been struggling in Europe these past years, and now you want to criticize someone because he doesn't want to play the roulette-style that is British football these days xD I think Simeone doesn't respect la Liga, he plays too defensive. People don't like innovation I guess, change is so scaaary. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6805 Posts
On October 26 2016 01:24 aseq wrote: Yeah man. Same team winning every year and stuff. No good players. Totally boring... Terrible lvl .i did see manu vs pool and it was really boring.im glad pep is in the premier,u could atleast watch a team trying to play the ball. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
On October 27 2016 20:15 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Terrible lvl .i did see manu vs pool and it was really boring.im glad pep is in the premier,u could atleast watch a team trying to play the ball. utd vs pool is a terrible game to base the level of the average premier league game. it is a mou team vs "big" opposition. real madrid vs barcelona was boring a lot of the times too when mou was at rm | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6262 Posts
On October 27 2016 19:04 evilfatsh1t wrote: the difference between mourinho and pep is mou's early success wasnt thanks to him having godly teams at his disposal. pep had messi, xavi and iniesta all in their prime, not to mention the other world class players that made up the rest of the team. he then moves to bayern which is arguably the 2nd best team in the world (or 3rd if you consider rm to be better) and dominates a league that doesnt have anyone else to win it anyway, but falls short in CL repeatedly. mou won cl with fucking porto and inter and has won trophies in like...every league with a variety of teams of which only madrid is consistently considered to be top 5 in the world and im not even a mou fanboy. yeah hes man utd's coach now but ive never been a fan of his teams/management approach A godly Barcelona which he helped create. Pique, Alves, Busquets, Pedro are all players which he took into the first team and he got rid of older players like Deco or Ronaldinho. Falls short in the CL? He gets into the semi finals every year. Of course that's no finals but consistency like that is a solid performance in itself. There aren't many teams or coaches who get into the semi finals year after year. The teams Mou has coached after Porto are: Chelsea, Inter, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester United which are all top clubs. The inter team was really really good when they won the CL (although they collapsed afterwards). He basically failed at RM, the 2nd year at Chelsea and isn't doing well with Manchester United yet he's considered a top coach while Guardiola is overrated. Yes Guardiola relies on very strong teams but so does literally every top manager from Mourinho to LVG. Sometimes they fail but that doesn't mean they're immediatly overrated. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18573 Posts
On October 27 2016 20:40 RvB wrote: A godly Barcelona which he helped create. Pique, Alves, Busquets, Pedro are all players which he took into the first team and he got rid of older players like Deco or Ronaldinho. Falls short in the CL? He gets into the semi finals every year. Of course that's no finals but consistency like that is a solid performance in itself. There aren't many teams or coaches who get into the semi finals year after year. The teams Mou has coached after Porto are: Chelsea, Inter, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester United which are all top clubs. The inter team was really really good when they won the CL (although they collapsed afterwards). He basically failed at RM, the 2nd year at Chelsea and isn't doing well with Manchester United yet he's considered a top coach while Guardiola is overrated. Yes Guardiola relies on very strong teams but so does literally every top manager from Mourinho to LVG. Sometimes they fail but that doesn't mean they're immediatly overrated. Porto and Chelsea at the time Mourinho coached them were definitely not top clubs. Same can be said about Inter and ManUtd (third coach with mediocre results tells me that ManUtd squad is not top). No one can say if Barca would have become the powerhouse they were with or without Pep. But the truth is that both Barca and Bayern won tons of stuff without Pep. | ||
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Sadir
Vatican City State1176 Posts
On October 27 2016 19:23 Pandemona wrote: Yeah the Pep issue is can he do it outside of Barcelona. He went to Bayern and didn't improve them, that is fact. He took over them when they were no1 in the world, after winning champions league, he left them after losing to Atletico Madrid in the semi finals somehow. He joins Man City starts well then all of a sudden concedes goal left and right to Celtic and hasn't won in 6 games in all competitions. In England this puts huge pressure on you which it will be interesting to see how he deals with it as the press will be throwing things at him left and right. The problem i have is he doesn't respect the leagues he plays in at all and throws his style 100% onto that team until it either breaks or works. In Bayern you can argue it didn't work but the fact that Bayern squad/team is vastly superior to anything else in that league it "worked" and won him titles. He has a huge test to see if this current City team can do it in this league quickly as not getting top 4 could be a possibility if we are still talking about this sort of run after the next 6 games. Mourinho is also struggling for first time in his career. He had a crazily bad season for Chelsea and got sacked and now steps into a Yanited team he thought he solved with his transfer dealings for that to heavily fall short so far too as he has no idea of his best 11 and the results so far are not good for him. I m really not fond of Guardiola, but to be fair, the season before Guardiola took over, Bayern won the triple. So surpassing that is...yeah kind of hard. | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
'Rafa Benitez is doing a good job at Newcastle.' I hate it. But you can quote me on that. The Championship is a very tough division to get out of in the right direction. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
On October 27 2016 21:17 Sadir wrote: I m really not fond of Guardiola, but to be fair, the season before Guardiola took over, Bayern won the triple. So surpassing that is...yeah kind of hard. What's bothering me the most is that they say "Bayern was #1 before Pep arrived". Bayern was probably the best team that year but that's it. Bayern was/is a consistent top 3-4, but they haven't dominated Europe for years as some people make it look. Heynckes lost the league vs Dortmund. The year Inter wins the CL, Barça is superior to Bayern. The year Chelsea wins it, Barça is also superior to Bayern. The only dominating team of the last few years has been Barça. And even then they "just" won 4 of the last 10 CL. | ||
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
On October 27 2016 22:17 WillyWanker wrote: What's bothering me the most is that they say "Bayern was #1 before Pep arrived". Bayern was probably the best team that year but that's it. Bayern was/is a consistent top 3-4, but they haven't dominated Europe for years as some people make it look. Heynckes lost the league vs Dortmund. The year Inter wins the CL, Barça is superior to Bayern. The year Chelsea wins it, Barça is also superior to Bayern. The only dominating team of the last few years has been Barça. And even then they "just" won 4 of the last 10 CL. Whatever happened the years before the year when Bayern dominated is absolutely irrelevant for this argument. If they were the best at that very moment when Pep took over, it doesn't matter that Barca was better 2, 5 or 20 years before that. If you win CL 10 times in a row and drop out of the group stage in your 11th year, you are no longer the best. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
Pep qualified for 7 semi finals in a row. That's consistency at the highest level. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 27 2016 21:00 sharkie wrote: Porto and Chelsea at the time Mourinho coached them were definitely not top clubs. Same can be said about Inter and ManUtd (third coach with mediocre results tells me that ManUtd squad is not top). No one can say if Barca would have become the powerhouse they were with or without Pep. But the truth is that both Barca and Bayern won tons of stuff without Pep. Yeah as Chelsea has proven you can play ass football and win the Champions league. He also benefited from alot of Portuguese players that were peaking at that time. But yes full credit for that win. Inter was a top club when Mou picked them up.. dafuq you on about. They had spent all of Morratis money on squad building and had been dominating Seria A since Calcio. They were the best that Italy had to offer. Winning with Inter was unusual sure, but they were very much a top team. Again full credit for that win. But by the same token you have to give Guardialo full credit for his wins. Why is that so hard ? If teams started to play like shit after Mourinho leaves them that probably means hes not someone who is good at creating a footballing culture that is designed to succeed. Thats why I call him the 5 hour energy manager. You get a boost, but then the crash afterwards is debilitating. As for Guardiola at Bayern, if you consider not winning the CL a failure, sure he failed. But really how is he supposed to "improve" on a team that won the treble ? Does that mean that when a team like United or Barca that won a treble and didnt win it the next year was because of the managers failure to "improve" them ? Rubbish. | ||
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