Can't be worse than last year's. Like actually impossible.
Marshawn and the Seahawks D are enough to beat anyone any given week, but the Patriots have basically had 3+ straight months of being rock solid. The Pats also have a better D and run game than their last couple times in the SB. Not to mention Gronk is healthy. If Seattle plays anywhere near as poorly as they did vs the Packers they don't have a chance.
Seattle All day! I'm going to a friends house for the game who happens to be a Patriots fan. Should be a fun game. Hoping to talk him into a Tazer bet (winner tazers loser).
On January 31 2015 17:49 Micro_Jackson wrote: 10-21 New England, too many injured players, too bad passing game for Seattle.
i agree, i think NE will crush seattle but that's not an acceptable outcome, so gotta go with a seahawks win here. the way seahawks would win this game is pretty simple, pick off brady and get some lucky touchdowns. patriots defense is not that good, particularly against the running game .
As a Patriots fan, the more I watch replays of Seattle the more I think this could be a blowout by the pats. Nobody is at 100% but the LOB has some dings and aren't near the same level they were last year. The only real test in the last 8 games for Seattle was GB and that should have been an easy win for GB. Hoping for a good game but Baldwin and Kearse aren't exactly the people I'd want to be relying on as X factors, then again neither was David Tyree :[
Also the only TE in the league even close to comparable with Gronk is a healthy Gates and that went pretty well for Gates...
On February 01 2015 02:04 lord_nibbler wrote: As a side note, I do not get the Patriot logo.
How did this: turn into this?
Back in '93 they changed the logo to look like the now collapsed Old Man of the Mountain (probably to be more inclusive to the whole New England thing, "hey it's from New Hampshire guys, we're including people outside Mass!"). At some point or another someone decided it would be a good idea to re-add the old tricorn to it.
On February 01 2015 02:04 lord_nibbler wrote: As a side note, I do not get the Patriot logo.
How did this: turn into this?
Back in '93 they changed the logo to look like the now collapsed Old Man of the Mountain (probably to be more inclusive to the whole New England thing, "hey it's from New Hampshire guys, we're including people outside Mass!"). At some point or another someone decided it would be a good idea to re-add the old tricorn to it.
Pats 23 - 17
That's funny, You think the Pats are going to hold the Seahawks to 17 points. Pretty sure both teams get at least 21 points.
Go hawkssss Would love to see a shutout game until the end of the 4th quarter. And then we get beast quake 3 and a final score 7-0. Otherwise, just please not as boring as last year
On February 01 2015 02:04 lord_nibbler wrote: As a side note, I do not get the Patriot logo.
How did this: turn into this?
Back in '93 they changed the logo to look like the now collapsed Old Man of the Mountain (probably to be more inclusive to the whole New England thing, "hey it's from New Hampshire guys, we're including people outside Mass!"). At some point or another someone decided it would be a good idea to re-add the old tricorn to it.
Thanks a lot. That does actually explain the face in the logo. Well, still not my taste but it's unique and that always counts as a plus.
Did anyone else catch John Harbaugh at the commentary desk telling a story about how his brother Jim tried to drown him once? No real punchline or joke to lighten it up, the other hosts looked kinda horrified and they cut to video of some plays. LOL
She is all over the place. Can't sing for beans. Flat then sharp. Missing halfsteps and everything. Shows how important auto-tune and technology is to today's pop scene ahead of actual talent. Bring back john legend - he was way better.
Having said that it would be hilarious if the Pats won. All the rage it would generate. Plus there are some people on the Pats, like Revis, I'd like to see win one.
On February 02 2015 08:35 Humbalumba wrote: How nice that the german television doesn't explain the rules. Must be because everybody over here knows them -.-
The commentators probably dont know the rules. There are SO many!
1st and 10 = First attempt, still need 10 yards. 2nd and 5, means you got 5 yards on your first attempt, and this is your 2nd attempt to get the 5 remaining yards. etc.
Most of the time you only make three attempts, and then you kick the ball to the opposing team, because if you go for in on 4th and X and don't get it, the other team gets the ball where you were, instead of letting you kick it to other side of field.
The yellow line is the 10yd mark that you are trying to reach
On February 02 2015 08:40 SoSexy wrote: guys can u explain what's the '2nd and 7' '3rd and 6' stuff?
You have four attempts to move forward 10 yards over the field. Realistically it's more like three though since if you can't do it in four the ball is turned over to the other team at the spot you are at, that's why teams kick it away (punting).
When they say "2nd and 7" they mean that this is the 2nd attempt and they still have 7 yards to go. Same when they talk about "1st down" and the like.
And if you succeed in moving 10 yards you get four more attempts to move a further 10 yards
Earlier this week, someone posted some fun facst that Patriots never scored in the 1st quarter in any of the SB they've been to. Looks like that will continue to hold true haha.
I'm very entertained by Seattle's passing game so far. Patriots aren't getting to Wilson but his receivers aren't getting open so he's running like a headless chicken back there.
I like how there's a guy who gets subbed in to kick the extra point and does nothing else of the game, and extra points are always kicked at the exact same spot
On February 02 2015 09:13 Fatalize wrote: I like how there's a guy who gets subbed in to kick the extra point and does nothing else of the game, and extra points are always kicked at the exact same spot
That's actually kinda retarded
Except he does do more. He field goals and sometimes they also do those kickoffs.
On February 02 2015 09:14 travis wrote: seattle looks outclassed. hope things can change here
We knew the pats would score on the seattle defense.
The problem is the Seattle offense looks bad... again. Stop Lynch and you stop the offense.
Getting a kick out of answering football questions in my local sc2 chat :D
On February 02 2015 09:13 Fatalize wrote: I like how there's a guy who gets subbed in to kick the extra point and does nothing else of the game, and extra points are always kicked at the exact same spot
That's actually kinda retarded
He sometimes kicks field goals and depending on the team does kickoffs too...
On February 02 2015 09:18 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Judging the Seahawks offense before the second half is like judging the taste of a strawberry before it's ripe. Football games have four quarters.
Same thing can be said about both the Patriots Off/Def
On February 02 2015 09:13 Fatalize wrote: I like how there's a guy who gets subbed in to kick the extra point and does nothing else of the game, and extra points are always kicked at the exact same spot
That's actually kinda retarded
You're joking right? They are responsible for those potential game-winning or game-tying field goals. More pressure than I want to deal with.
On February 02 2015 09:57 On_Slaught wrote: I really don't like going for it here. 10-14 is a fine half time score when you get the ball to start the 2nd. A lot could go wrong on this play.
Even though it's a td I agree with you. I guess I would be a conservative coach
On February 02 2015 09:59 On_Slaught wrote: Belichick did not look happy. Feels like they def outplayed the Seahawks in this half yet go in tied.
Absolutely outplayed them in the first quarter, but the second quarter felt pretty even. I woulda put it far in Seahawks favor if it weren't for Simon being unable to keep up with NE.
i'm amazed how fast seattle can drive the ball down the field when under that much pressure in so little time. i rooted for them last year cause i just kinda chose them (plus incontrol) but now I'm really falling in love with them.
On February 02 2015 10:16 mahrgell wrote: The graphical effects from the stage are quite cool. And in general this halftime show easily beats the last couple of years...
So, in all records of the halftime how they will just pretend the video had some issues during the beachscene and blacked out. And then this will go into history as a really awesome halftime show...
I just saw a pic of what happened to Lane. Let's just say that I was rightly suspicious of NBC saying he was just "doubtful" to return when they refused to show the injury replay.
On February 02 2015 10:25 xDaunt wrote: I just saw a pic of what happened to Lane. Let's just say that I was rightly suspicious of NBC saying he was just "doubtful" to return when they refused to show the injury replay.
On February 02 2015 10:25 xDaunt wrote: I just saw a pic of what happened to Lane. Let's just say that I was rightly suspicious of NBC saying he was just "doubtful" to return when they refused to show the injury replay.
On February 02 2015 10:25 xDaunt wrote: I just saw a pic of what happened to Lane. Let's just say that I was rightly suspicious of NBC saying he was just "doubtful" to return when they refused to show the injury replay.
On February 02 2015 10:25 xDaunt wrote: I just saw a pic of what happened to Lane. Let's just say that I was rightly suspicious of NBC saying he was just "doubtful" to return when they refused to show the injury replay.
On February 02 2015 10:25 xDaunt wrote: I just saw a pic of what happened to Lane. Let's just say that I was rightly suspicious of NBC saying he was just "doubtful" to return when they refused to show the injury replay.
I really don't understand the thought behind the new jurassic park movie like damn remember the last time you brought back dinosaurs wasn't a great fucking idea
On February 02 2015 10:25 xDaunt wrote: I just saw a pic of what happened to Lane. Let's just say that I was rightly suspicious of NBC saying he was just "doubtful" to return when they refused to show the injury replay.
The arm broke right?
Badly.
I think it looks worse than it will turn out to be. No open break is a good thing. Surgery will most likely be required, but he should be able to get back to playing football.
On February 02 2015 10:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: I really don't understand the thought behind the new jurassic park movie like damn remember the last time you brought back dinosaurs wasn't a great fucking idea
How many people died to the trex? Well let's just make a new predator instead
On February 02 2015 10:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: I really don't understand the thought behind the new jurassic park movie like damn remember the last time you brought back dinosaurs wasn't a great fucking idea
It's supposed to be a pure popcorn movie, but yea it looks very stupid.
At this point, I think Seahawks fans should know better than anyone how quickly a game can swing in the fourth quarter. It's easy to get overconfident but we gotta stay tight, especially since Cliff Avril's return is questionable.
On February 02 2015 11:15 vult wrote: Huh, didn't know that pulling at the jersey wasn't holding because I think he had a chance of getting first on that?
Refs have been getting bad calls tonight. Wasn't surprised they're trying to avoid a repeat of last year's blow-out.
On February 02 2015 11:15 vult wrote: Huh, didn't know that pulling at the jersey wasn't holding because I think he had a chance of getting first on that?
You can't hold on a tackle. You can even tackle by the hair, but not by the facemask. Or a horse collar I suppose.
On February 02 2015 11:15 vult wrote: Huh, didn't know that pulling at the jersey wasn't holding because I think he had a chance of getting first on that?
You can't hold on a tackle. You can even tackle by the hair, but not by the facemask.
I just figured that him being held there was not legal but oh well. NFL rules are dumb.
On February 02 2015 11:15 vult wrote: Huh, didn't know that pulling at the jersey wasn't holding because I think he had a chance of getting first on that?
You can't hold on a tackle. You can even tackle by the hair, but not by the facemask.
I just figured that him being held there was not legal but oh well. NFL rules are dumb.
Well really a hold can be considered a tackle in most situations.
On February 02 2015 06:10 The_Templar wrote: After reading about how the scoring works and based on other people's predictions, I predict a Patriots victory, 28-27.
On February 02 2015 11:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now I know why people find the NFL so boring/random. It's like they decide when to stop/keep the clock counting down at random intervals.
On February 02 2015 11:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Now I know why people find the NFL so boring/random. It's like they decide when to stop/keep the clock counting down at random intervals.
Well there are rules that govern when the clock stops. For instance, if the player with the ball runs out of bounds, the clock stops until the next play commences.
Wilson has such a great opportunity again. After being so heroic in the NFC Championship he once again has the ball to win the Super Bowl now, having beaten both Manning and Brady in consecutive years.
On February 02 2015 12:05 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: If there's any fighting it should be the ass kicking of the Seattle QB, even the commentators are like WTF
Am I the only one baffled by a 2 yard pass in the end zone with lynch as running back? I cant wrap my head around passing 2 yards from the end zone with lynch. One of the worst calls I have seen and that was a set play?
On February 02 2015 06:10 The_Templar wrote: After reading about how the scoring works and based on other people's predictions, I predict a Patriots victory, 28-27.
Not bad, not bad.
I still know almost nothing about football though ><
Its like seattle had a set play to give tom brady the super bowl by running the riskiest red zone play you could ever come up with. You have lynch at running back. Lynch. You need like 2 yards.
On February 02 2015 12:07 snakeeyez wrote: Am I the only one baffled by a 2 yard pass in the end zone with lynch as running back? I cant wrap my head around passing 2 yards from the end zone with lynch. One of the worst calls I have seen and that was a set play?
That was literally the dumbest call I've ever seen in the SB, ever. Wilson could have run it in.
On February 02 2015 12:07 snakeeyez wrote: Am I the only one baffled by a 2 yard pass in the end zone with lynch as running back? I cant wrap my head around passing 2 yards from the end zone with lynch. One of the worst calls I have seen and that was a set play?
That was literally the dumbest call I've ever seen in the SB, ever. Wilson could have run it in.
It sounds like the conspiracy theorists will get all the confirmation they need.
On February 02 2015 12:05 y0su wrote: how bad would it be to be ejected and miss celebrating a fucking superbowl
edit: nm, only ejection going to seattle
Not as bad as the guy who may or may not have a concussion, but not allowed to leave the locker room to celebrate with his team (if they ended up winning). Getting ejected is their own damn fault for raging.
If I chose to pass there instead of run, surely it's because I'm thinking, "they won't expect that!" It's like upper bronze league decision making, or that's how it sounds...I'll only get to see highlights.
On February 02 2015 12:07 snakeeyez wrote: Am I the only one baffled by a 2 yard pass in the end zone with lynch as running back? I cant wrap my head around passing 2 yards from the end zone with lynch. One of the worst calls I have seen and that was a set play?
That was literally the dumbest call I've ever seen in the SB, ever. Wilson could have run it in.
No, that wasn't the dumbest call ever in a Super Bowl.
That was unquestioningly the single worst play in the history of sports.
You absolutely cannot overstate how terrible it was to call that play. There was NO LOGICAL REASON to throw the ball.
I cannot mentally comprehend what just happened. It fucking blows my mind that a professional sports team would do something so incredibly stupid.
That has to be the worst call I have seen in a long time and to be at the end of the game in the super bowl hurts my head. Throw into the middle of the field in heavy traffic to get 2 yards? With the running options they have. They didnt even attempt the run first and they had plenty of time
Sherman's expression was like "WTF!?!" Honestly, a great game for those of us who really don't care about the game that much and only watch the Super Bowl.
On February 02 2015 12:07 snakeeyez wrote: Am I the only one baffled by a 2 yard pass in the end zone with lynch as running back? I cant wrap my head around passing 2 yards from the end zone with lynch. One of the worst calls I have seen and that was a set play?
That was literally the dumbest call I've ever seen in the SB, ever. Wilson could have run it in.
No, that wasn't the dumbest call ever in a Super Bowl.
That was unquestioningly the single worst play in the history of sports.
You absolutely cannot overstate how terrible it was to call that play. There was NO LOGICAL REASON to throw the ball.
I cannot mentally comprehend what just happened. It fucking blows my mind that a professional sports team would do something so incredibly stupid.
Maybe the game was fixed and wilson was told to do that. I cant think of any other logical reason to risk the ball in such a stupid way. Its not like you dont have a running game
On February 02 2015 12:21 snakeeyez wrote: Maybe the game was fixed and wilson was told to do that. I cant think of any other logical reason to risk the ball in such a stupid way. Its not like you dont have a running game
If you watch college football at all it reminds me of play calls university of Georgia does sometimes to fuck up games. It happens every now and then but damn what a stage to fuck up on
You got to the super bowl on the running game. Everyone in the whole stadium figured seahawks had the TD by running it in with wilson or lynch. They didnt even attempt it but picked the riskiest play I could draw up.
On February 02 2015 12:23 zev318 wrote: the only reason they threw it is cause they didnt think NE would be prepared for it. i mean everyone thought they would run it.
It was the only logical thing to do thats why. Why wouldnt you run it? They still have to guess where your running it to and wilson can run it so you dont know its lynch
On February 02 2015 12:23 zev318 wrote: the only reason they threw it is cause they didnt think NE would be prepared for it. i mean everyone thought they would run it.
It was the only logical thing to do thats why. Why wouldnt you run it? They still have to guess where your running it to
But Wilson has eyes, he can discern the uniform colors. He can see how all his pass options were under heavy coverage. Its not like he lobbed into some far corner where some receiver suck it. Here is what a non retarded player would do: oh, all my options are taken, well I am going to run for a yard and go down to take up some time, move into the half yard position Lynch can walk it in and protect the ball.
Lets say you pass it which seems odd to me when you have lynch and dont have him chance to win. Wouldnt a quick out to the corners be the less risky and better calls anyway with less chance of interception? It makes no sense.
On February 02 2015 12:28 TT1 wrote: Wilson should have said fuck the play and winged it, Montana would have done that 100%. It's career suicide if it doesnt work out tho..
Had a timeout. Wouldn't have been a big deal if he tucked and ran and was short
On February 02 2015 12:28 snakeeyez wrote: Lets say you pass it which seems odd to me when you have lynch and dont have him chance to win. Wouldnt a quick out to the corners be the less risky and better calls anyway with less chance of interception? It makes no sense.
from the replay, that play was actually going pretty good. i think the original cover guy actually got lost on to another receiver and butler just jumped it.
On February 02 2015 12:23 snakeeyez wrote: You got to the super bowl on the running game. Everyone in the whole stadium figured seahawks had the TD by running it in with wilson or lynch. They didnt even attempt it but picked the riskiest play I could draw up.
Exactly, even if you wanted to get cute and pass, you don't pick a route that basically throws it into heavy traffic. Just a dumb dumb call.
Edit: That's a route you run when you are in the middle of the field and you opened the defense, you don't do it on a stacked goalline.
On January 31 2015 15:29 GreenHorizons wrote: Seattle All day! I'm going to a friends house for the game who happens to be a Patriots fan. Should be a fun game. Hoping to talk him into a Tazer bet (winner tazers loser).
The reasoning was that Seattle was in 11 personnel and Pats were in goal line defense, the passing is the best solution schematically, but when you have beast mode.....
On February 02 2015 12:56 iKill[ShocK] wrote: So did Off coordinator called that play or did Wilson made audible?
Supposedly it was a "throw away play" just trying to save the timeout to get a heavy lineup in there. Poor decision either way but I'm not complaining after the pats made a few bad decisions.
I will never understand why it's the team owner and not the players/head coach the ones who get to lift the trophy first.
50 years from now patriots fans will have a picture of brady lifting the trophy, not of some random corporate dude who used to own the team,i don't buy the ''the owner gets to present the trophy to the players''.
On February 02 2015 13:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Just saw the rest of the SB commercials. They all sucked.
yeah idk if it's me growing up or if they're worse but these last few years have just been bad. I remember them at least having a couple of funny ones when I was younger. now there's like 2 or 3 max
On February 02 2015 12:54 Intact wrote: The reasoning was that Seattle was in 11 personnel and Pats were in goal line defense, the passing is the best solution schematically, but when you have beast mode.....
It was 2nd down. They had 2 more downs to run it and 1 time out (I think?). That is what's fubar. Taking a sack would have been better than passing.
I'm still undecided whether the Rams/Titans final minute was more tense or this is.
On February 02 2015 13:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Just saw the rest of the SB commercials. They all sucked.
yeah idk if it's me growing up or if they're worse but these last few years have just been bad. I remember them at least having a couple of funny ones when I was younger. now there's like 2 or 3 max
Yeah there used to be a lot more funny ones in my opinion. They seem to be skewing more toward serious nowadays for some reason.
On February 02 2015 12:54 Intact wrote: The reasoning was that Seattle was in 11 personnel and Pats were in goal line defense, the passing is the best solution schematically, but when you have beast mode.....
It was 2nd down. They had 2 more downs to run it and 1 time out (I think?). That is what's fubar. Taking a sack would have been better than passing.
I'm still undecided whether the Rams/Titans final minute was more tense or this is.
I would say that's a very good look.Corner managed to make the play of his life even after playing it opposite of what you are told to do. Instincts>Training I suppose
On February 02 2015 12:54 Intact wrote: The reasoning was that Seattle was in 11 personnel and Pats were in goal line defense, the passing is the best solution schematically, but when you have beast mode.....
It was 2nd down. They had 2 more downs to run it and 1 time out (I think?). That is what's fubar. Taking a sack would have been better than passing.
I'm still undecided whether the Rams/Titans final minute was more tense or this is.
I would say that's a very good look.Corner managed to make the play of his life even after playing it opposite of what you are told to do. Instincts>Training I suppose
Yeah! So many people overlooking what an amazing defensive play that was to make the pic. A quick slant vs Man coverage (looks like cover 1 or possible 0 with spy) on a short yardage play is not a bad call.
On February 02 2015 13:09 DDie wrote: I will never understand why it's the team owner and not the players/head coach the ones who get to lift the trophy first.
50 years from now patriots fans will have a picture of brady lifting the trophy, not of some random corporate dude who used to own the team,i don't buy the ''the owner gets to present the trophy to the players''.
If you knew what Kraft did to keep the team in the area and how much he gives to that community you'd be fine with it. Can't speak for other owners, but Kraft's a great guy who I've had the pleasure of meeting in person and he puts a lot into his teams and deserves to hold that up.
After week 3 or 4 I (and loads of other people) thought Brady and the Pats were totally done. How embarrassing.
I didn't really care who won either way, but I must admit, I was feeling really depressed when I thought TB was going to lose his third straight SB because someone made a ridiculous miracle catch. Thankfully the Seahawks' complete and utter stupidity didn't let that happen...
On February 02 2015 12:54 Intact wrote: The reasoning was that Seattle was in 11 personnel and Pats were in goal line defense, the passing is the best solution schematically, but when you have beast mode.....
It was 2nd down. They had 2 more downs to run it and 1 time out (I think?). That is what's fubar. Taking a sack would have been better than passing.
I'm still undecided whether the Rams/Titans final minute was more tense or this is.
I would say that's a very good look.Corner managed to make the play of his life even after playing it opposite of what you are told to do. Instincts>Training I suppose
Yeah! So many people overlooking what an amazing defensive play that was to make the pic. A quick slant vs Man coverage (looks like cover 1 or possible 0 with spy) on a short yardage play is not a bad call.
The thing is your on the one yard line. You dont need to take any risks like you already did the whole game. If there was ever a time to play it safe and not take risk it was right there. Throwing the ball is higher risk than keeping it on the ground so why give anyone the opportunity to pick off a deflection or a bad throw. There is not a lot of room in the red zone right there. A slant into the middle like that? Its silly I see the logic to stop the clock with a throw but lots of throws to the edges are much less risky. Although I would have ran it
watched with friends in seattle LOL FUCKING SEAHAWKS ARE YOU KIDDING ME HOW COULD YOU FUCK UP A 0.5 YARD PLAY IN THE LAST MINUTE TO WIN THE SUPERBOWL ARE YOU LITERALLY
They had 3 Patriots on, and one of them cut off the sleeves of Will Ferrell's sweatshirt... Belichick-fashion. Will was wearing the Seahawks sweatshirt too lmao.
Seattle played a hell of a game. Personally this feels like Shinhan Masters OSL win for NaDa, or when NaDa beat Boxer in KT-KTF.
And, we Pats fans are uniquely situated to understand your pain Seattle. Watching Belichick put Ellis Hobbs on Plaxico Burress in 2007 was painful. Not to mention Tyree.
On February 02 2015 13:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Just saw the rest of the SB commercials. They all sucked.
yeah idk if it's me growing up or if they're worse but these last few years have just been bad. I remember them at least having a couple of funny ones when I was younger. now there's like 2 or 3 max
Hey, at least we all know how to be a parent/child based on all those commercials.
Am I the only one that felt that Julian Edelman should have been MVP...? Brady was good and all, but he did throw 2 picks (one in the red zone), those catches that Edelman made in the 4th....
I enjoyed the game ! too bad for the seahawks , they really got me into football , last year's superbowl was the first I ever saw , and I have been playing Flag football since (cant play tackle when I got rugby to play too).
Well the american football world cup is happening in August ! I hope to see some good games there ! GO JAPAN ! down with USA ! XD
The entire NFC playoffs have been insane. Detroit, Dallas, Green Bay, Seattle all lost in horrific gut wrenching fashion. Luckily for the Patriots this was the last game of the season so there's no one left for them to lose to in terrible fashion. This season at least.
I'm just bummed that Jemea Thomas couldn't make the Pats roster after getting drafted by them. Would have liked to see another GT player get a ring. Demaryius should sign with the Pats next year.
I only watch the Superbowl, kind of a tradition for me and my family, but damn it was pretty close Started off slow but ended big. Too bad the Seahawks weren't able to break it in the end, but tbh, a well deserved win by the patriots
On February 02 2015 22:52 SwARmZzz wrote: Am I the only one that felt that Julian Edelman should have been MVP...? Brady was good and all, but he did throw 2 picks (one in the red zone), those catches that Edelman made in the 4th....
It's a pretty good case, but it's dulled down a bit by the performance of Gronk. Brady basically got chosen by default despite being pretty mediocre and even bad for him for 2.5 quarters.
I don't know who I'd give the mvp to either, except maybe giving it to Darrell Bevell as a joke lol.... but who cares about that silly title? It's the championship that counts.
I'm a real football newb but I did see the end of the superbowl. From what I understand, the Seahawks were one yard from scoring and instead of pushing the ball 1 yard they threw and were intercepted. Can someone explain to me why?
On February 03 2015 05:06 ElMeanYo wrote: I'm a real football newb but I did see the end of the superbowl. From what I understand, the Seahawks were one yard from scoring and instead of pushing the ball 1 yard they threw and were intercepted. Can someone explain to me why?
Throwing in that situation adds risk. Usually goal line passes are thrown to the edges of the field or back of the end zone to reduce the risk of interception. A pass in the crowded middle of the field is inexplicably risky.
To put it in starcraft terms, Seattle sent in an oracle and killed a bunch of SCVs and followed it up by trying to take a hidden expo at the gold, all in the most important game all year.
On February 03 2015 05:06 ElMeanYo wrote: I'm a real football newb but I did see the end of the superbowl. From what I understand, the Seahawks were one yard from scoring and instead of pushing the ball 1 yard they threw and were intercepted. Can someone explain to me why?
Throwing in that situation adds risk. Usually goal line passes are thrown to the edges of the field or back of the end zone to reduce the risk of interception. A pass in the crowded middle of the field is inexplicably risky.
To put it in starcraft terms, Seattle sent in an oracle and killed a bunch of SCVs and followed it up by trying to take a hidden expo at the gold, all in the most important game all year.
Errr... He didn't ask if someone could explain what it is that they did, he wanted to know why. To be honest, no one really knows why they made such a call. That's actually the most frustrating issue right now. They had pretty much no logical reason to go for such a risky play when so much was on the line.
The only thing that people can logically conclude to right now is the fact that Seahwaks wanted to do something unpredictable and make NE think that they were going for the run play and try to catch them off guard with that pass play. Had it paid off, it would have been a beautiful move. But it didn't pay off, so now chairs and tables are being flipped over left and right.
Just because ex-NFL players (typically idiots, even when it comes to football) don't like it doesn't mean the OC made a mistake. He got them the look they needed to win the game, and if Wilson were a better QB they would have.
Lynch is hard to take down but he's not the goal line beast everyone is thinking - there was nothing automatic about a 1 yard run up the middle and the stats prove it.
Watch the whole last series again, and you'll see most of the blame should be put in Wilson. He horribly mismanaged the clock and then put the ball in the worst possible spot without recognizing Butler coming in.
No one wants to put the blame on the franchise QB they're about to throw money at, but he really cost them and dumb luck didn't bail him out this time.
On February 03 2015 06:43 Seeker wrote: Errr... He didn't ask if someone could explain what it is that they did, he wanted to know why.
Well, he could have been more specific about his "why".
(1) Why did Darrell Bevell call that particular play at that particular time? (2) Why didn't Pete Carroll veto Bevell's decision on that particular play?
Unless we can read their minds, no one knows for sure. We also don't know, with 100% certainty, that Seattle would've gotten the ball in by running. They could still fumble, get sacked, get stopped etc. Yes, statistics favor the run heavily; but statistics is not foolproof... or NE would've already had their 4th ring on Feb 2008.
Basically, the hindsight excuse is, they saw NE defense formation, and decided not to waste their "epic run play" on 2nd down. And at the same time chew up more clock, not letting Brady get the ball back with enough time for couple quick long throws + game-tying field goal (which means Overtime). In their minds, worst case is an incomplete pass. They can still do their epic run play on 3rd/4th down.
They did not count on the ball being intercepted by a rookie.
lynch's goalline conversion is pretty good, and the patriots run defense is pretty soft. they could have ran it in without a question. even carroll believed this.
the risk of the throw is suffering from a lot of post hoc confirmation, but it is still not a good look to run a route to the middle of the field. they could have thrown a fade to the side/corner.
On February 03 2015 08:17 oneofthem wrote: lynch's goalline conversion is pretty good, and the patriots run defense is pretty soft. they could have ran it in without a question. even carroll believed this.
the risk of the throw is suffering from a lot of post hoc confirmation, but it is still not a good look to run a route to the middle of the field. they could have thrown a fade to the side/corner.
I believe the Seahawk's goal line pass play conversion rate is better than Lynch's this season. The Patriots D has been soft but they still had the correct package for a run. If Seattle runs and gets stopped, then 3rd down is a 99% pass play. If it were an incomplete pass, they'd still have both options on 3rd down.
It's not a risky pass if you throw it properly. It's relatively common in the modern NFL and goal line passes have an extremely low interception rate, IIRC. So does Wilson (about as high as Lynch's fumble rate.) The throw is supposed to be down and to the middle or behind the receiver, instead of up and at the inside corner. Maybe they could've run a fade instead but they had the receiver open so w/e.
Essentially, the Seahawks' chances to score on 2nd down would've been higher with a run, but their chance to score before the end of the game is higher with the pass. An interception in that situation hadn't happened before.
The only thing weird about the play to me is that if the ball is placed properly, it's caught for no gain (or at least no score) and it may as well have been a run play. In all of the analysis I have read, people stop at "it should be low risk if Wilson places it correctly" and don't add that it's also no reward if he places it correctly. I think that partially might justify the OC's comment about the receiver not being aggressive enough or w/e. If you're gonna play it safe with ball placement, you need a guy with enough strength to keep moving forward when he takes a hit, not get knocked on his ass from the incidental contact when a defender plays the ball !
it was no gain/intercepted because it actually never surprised the patriots at all.
“It’s man-to-man, you stack receivers like this,” he said, putting one fist in front of the other. “And boom!, you try to pick the guy. They had a good play, but we knew them, we watched them for two weeks.”
Butler had seen the stacked-receiver look in practice, where he’d been beaten on the play by Josh Boyce. “I didn’t let it happen again,” he said.
So what tipped Butler off on a quick slant in a situation where everyone was expecting run?
“They called goal-line three receivers; goal-line usually has two receivers,” he said. “You still could pass either way, but three receivers? That’s kind of letting you know something. I’m a pass defender first, and I just jumped the route.
“I don’t even remember who I was on. 83? I just knew it was stack and I jumped the route and that was the ball game.”
I think the seahawks call this play in order to force BB to take his last timeout. They want to take away any chance of Tom Brady being Tom Brady in case they score. Everyone is expecting Lynch to get the ball so when they line up with 3 receivers it's just forcing BB to burn their last grasp on the game. But BB doesn't take the bait and 50 seconds turns into 25 and than they're thinking hell run the play. If we get a touchdown we are geniuses, if it's an incompletion we stop the clock.
/u/Chavril on reddit sums up my thought.
note: Patriots had their package on the field to stop the run, basically daring them to run the ball. (via Carroll's interview). Had pats called a timeout, Seattle probably would have switched to a different package? maybe? We'll never know. But seriously 4 people involved are to blame for this situation: Bevell, Caroll, Wilson, Lockette.
On February 03 2015 05:06 ElMeanYo wrote: I'm a real football newb but I did see the end of the superbowl. From what I understand, the Seahawks were one yard from scoring and instead of pushing the ball 1 yard they threw and were intercepted. Can someone explain to me why?
I can explain this. And there is some good logic to it. First, fumbles and interceptions happen, but the seahawks coach doesn't make play calls based on that happening.
So the seahawks have three more downs (chances) to win the game with 26 secs left. A run won't stop the clock, but an incomplete will. So if they run it and fail to score, they will be boxed in to having to call a very obvious pass play.
Little interesting tidbit, Marshawn Lynch went 0-5 on runs from the 1 yard line this season.
For your viewing pleasure:
Honestly, I don't care for the rationale of killing time to not give Brady a shot... Twenty eight seconds is such little time, and the Seahawks had a top 10 special teams unit. They also have the best defense in the league. There's no excuse for throwing there. Run the ball. If you get stopped, run again. If your power run offense (that got you this far) can't get 1 yard in two tries, you don't deserve to win the Superbowl anyways.
On February 03 2015 07:35 Jibba wrote: They had plenty of reasons to go for it.
Just because ex-NFL players (typically idiots, even when it comes to football) don't like it doesn't mean the OC made a mistake. He got them the look they needed to win the game, and if Wilson were a better QB they would have.
Lynch is hard to take down but he's not the goal line beast everyone is thinking - there was nothing automatic about a 1 yard run up the middle and the stats prove it.
Watch the whole last series again, and you'll see most of the blame should be put in Wilson. He horribly mismanaged the clock and then put the ball in the worst possible spot without recognizing Butler coming in.
No one wants to put the blame on the franchise QB they're about to throw money at, but he really cost them and dumb luck didn't bail him out this time.
For some reason, you've really been a Wilson hater recently.
The fact is that he has reliable stats, is extremely confident with the ball, making good decisions and accurate throws, and is great at running the ball without being a liability like RG3.
Wilson is a good QB, even if you want to be a hater. He's not like Brady or Rodgers, but he's definitely a quality QB. He didn't mismanaged the clock at all on that last drive and he was actually playing fairly well. The last play was a really bad throw but that entire drive was horribly managed from a playcalling perspective, which lands on the coaching staff.
they did not need such a risk on 2nd down with timeout left as well they had time for 3 plays you could do it on 3rd down and maybe 4th down but not on fukin 2nd down fuck the surprise your a running team fucking run the fucking ball with lynch or wilson
On February 03 2015 07:35 Jibba wrote: They had plenty of reasons to go for it.
Just because ex-NFL players (typically idiots, even when it comes to football) don't like it doesn't mean the OC made a mistake. He got them the look they needed to win the game, and if Wilson were a better QB they would have.
Lynch is hard to take down but he's not the goal line beast everyone is thinking - there was nothing automatic about a 1 yard run up the middle and the stats prove it.
Watch the whole last series again, and you'll see most of the blame should be put in Wilson. He horribly mismanaged the clock and then put the ball in the worst possible spot without recognizing Butler coming in.
No one wants to put the blame on the franchise QB they're about to throw money at, but he really cost them and dumb luck didn't bail him out this time.
Well, he didn't mismanage the clock, really. At least, I didn't think so. That's a very difficult situation to play in. On one hand, he has to burn as much time as he can, so that they don't give the Patriots another shot at scoring. On the other hand, if they're not moving down field fast enough, he has to make sure he doesn't run out of time. As it stands, they would have left the Pats about 20 seconds and two time outs. I'd take an 80 yard field with that defense, feeling confident that they wouldn't get more than 3.
That said, you're right about the pass. It was off target. If the ball is 42" to the right, it's a TD, or they're right on the goal line. I think you're wrong in saying that it wasn't a mistake, though. Given the run that Lynch had the play before, I'd run him again right there. The pass has too high of a potential to get messed up. But, I will say this: I think it was a mistake because I don't think that Wilson is a very good pocket passer. He's incredible when plays break down, and his WRs adjust their routes probably better than any group in the league, but there is not a chance in hell I would have put the game in his hands down there. I don't think that I've ever said that I think he's a high level passer on here, and I know that I've argued this with friends and coworkers countless times. I've said this since the middle of last season, and I've added that I think he'll have the shortest career of the good, young QBs in the league right now because of his inability to pass from the pocket, and what appears to be a lack of development there. If nothing else, he really is too short to pass from the pocket effectively. The game plan for Wilson is always to stop the rush and contain him to the pocket. Why? Because he's not very effective from the pocket. That's easier said than done, but Carroll handed it to the Patriots on a fucking silver platter on that play. He intentionally put his QB in a position that least utilizes his skill set, and actually highlights his weakness. That's why it's a mistake.
I just watched the play like six times (heart breaking every time, too), and I think that if Wilson is a better QB, it's a very good play call. The Patriots are definitely rushing 7, but one LB comes off of the blitz to cover Lynch on the flat route. If the ball is placed at the right hash, then 21 has to go through another DB and WR to get at the ball: the pick was set perfectly. A brilliant call would have had Wilson faking the hand off to Lynch up the gut, keeping the same setup otherwise. Why? It would have diverted the DBs attention just enough that the pass could have been slightly off and it would not have made a difference. They were expecting a run, which is why this was a good call, but that they only had to recognize that it wasn't a run made it too easy for the DBs, imo. I think PA is the most underused strategy at the goal line, especially from teams that have powerful HBs. I know there's an inherent risk that the D won't bite, and that they'll take a sack, but they had 20 seconds and a time out to handle a 3-5 yard loss. It makes the passing game a little easier, too, since it forces the DBs to cover more field.
I would have liked a back shoulder to the tall WR whose name I can't remember because he never caught a ball before the Super Bowl too. A fade is the obvious throw, so the DB is probably going to play off of him a bit and wait for the jump ball. It's a simple read though. If the DB comes down, throw the fade, if the DB stays high, throw the back shoulder. If he gets doubled, throw it out of bounds and play another down.
I don't know... the only thing I'm sure of is that all of our discussions will never make a difference, and that fucker Tom Brady got his fourth. I hope you're happy, DK! (If you're reading this.) And I know that I am sad as can be over that.
Didn't this happen before? Should've given Lynch the chance tbh.
The defense in that situation was quite a bit different than it was on the final play, actually.
They rushed 6 on that play versus 7 on the final play.
Also, that play is probably a big part of the reason that they ran the play they did. Gave a similar look with a different result. This is another reason I think PA is the best call in this situation.
On February 03 2015 15:28 DannyJ wrote: Speaking of Wilson, overall he has the least amount of criticism imaginable for a QB that threw a pick to lose a Super Bowl.
Tom Brady threw 2 picks, and yet is being hailed as possible GOAT now, and won MVP, the only difference being one more pick and on the winning side. And him being on the winning side came down to a rookie playing on the defense which he doesn't even play in. Lets not forget one of brady's picks cost a TD AND conceded possesion, Wilson only cost a TD, also Wilson shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. Unlike brady's TD missing pick there was a receiver in sight, Lockette, who should have done better than bounce off a rookie. Even if Wilson throws it perfectly, which obviously he didnt, Lockette still has to make 1~1/2yard with both Butler AND Brandon Browner in the way, so its not even a necessarily a TD, so something went wrong there too. Brady obviously was awesome but the attempt to try and trash Wilson, even people going as far as defending Pete Carroll's play call lol, is crazy
EDIT:
On February 03 2015 22:48 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: + Show Spoiler +
On February 03 2015 07:35 Jibba wrote: They had plenty of reasons to go for it.
Just because ex-NFL players (typically idiots, even when it comes to football) don't like it doesn't mean the OC made a mistake. He got them the look they needed to win the game, and if Wilson were a better QB they would have.
Lynch is hard to take down but he's not the goal line beast everyone is thinking - there was nothing automatic about a 1 yard run up the middle and the stats prove it.
Watch the whole last series again, and you'll see most of the blame should be put in Wilson. He horribly mismanaged the clock and then put the ball in the worst possible spot without recognizing Butler coming in.
No one wants to put the blame on the franchise QB they're about to throw money at, but he really cost them and dumb luck didn't bail him out this time.
Well, he didn't mismanage the clock, really. At least, I didn't think so. That's a very difficult situation to play in. On one hand, he has to burn as much time as he can, so that they don't give the Patriots another shot at scoring. On the other hand, if they're not moving down field fast enough, he has to make sure he doesn't run out of time. As it stands, they would have left the Pats about 20 seconds and two time outs. I'd take an 80 yard field with that defense, feeling confident that they wouldn't get more than 3.
That said, you're right about the pass. It was off target. If the ball is 42" to the right, it's a TD, or they're right on the goal line. I think you're wrong in saying that it wasn't a mistake, though. Given the run that Lynch had the play before, I'd run him again right there. The pass has too high of a potential to get messed up. But, I will say this: I think it was a mistake because I don't think that Wilson is a very good pocket passer. He's incredible when plays break down, and his WRs adjust their routes probably better than any group in the league, but there is not a chance in hell I would have put the game in his hands down there. I don't think that I've ever said that I think he's a high level passer on here, and I know that I've argued this with friends and coworkers countless times. I've said this since the middle of last season, and I've added that I think he'll have the shortest career of the good, young QBs in the league right now because of his inability to pass from the pocket, and what appears to be a lack of development there. If nothing else, he really is too short to pass from the pocket effectively. The game plan for Wilson is always to stop the rush and contain him to the pocket. Why? Because he's not very effective from the pocket. That's easier said than done, but Carroll handed it to the Patriots on a fucking silver platter on that play. He intentionally put his QB in a position that least utilizes his skill set, and actually highlights his weakness. That's why it's a mistake.
I just watched the play like six times (heart breaking every time, too), and I think that if Wilson is a better QB, it's a very good play call. The Patriots are definitely rushing 7, but one LB comes off of the blitz to cover Lynch on the flat route. If the ball is placed at the right hash, then 21 has to go through another DB and WR to get at the ball: the pick was set perfectly. A brilliant call would have had Wilson faking the hand off to Lynch up the gut, keeping the same setup otherwise. Why? It would have diverted the DBs attention just enough that the pass could have been slightly off and it would not have made a difference. They were expecting a run, which is why this was a good call, but that they only had to recognize that it wasn't a run made it too easy for the DBs, imo. I think PA is the most underused strategy at the goal line, especially from teams that have powerful HBs. I know there's an inherent risk that the D won't bite, and that they'll take a sack, but they had 20 seconds and a time out to handle a 3-5 yard loss. It makes the passing game a little easier, too, since it forces the DBs to cover more field.
I would have liked a back shoulder to the tall WR whose name I can't remember because he never caught a ball before the Super Bowl too. A fade is the obvious throw, so the DB is probably going to play off of him a bit and wait for the jump ball. It's a simple read though. If the DB comes down, throw the fade, if the DB stays high, throw the back shoulder. If he gets doubled, throw it out of bounds and play another down.
I don't know... the only thing I'm sure of is that all of our discussions will never make a difference, and that fucker Tom Brady got his fourth. I hope you're happy, DK! (If you're reading this.) And I know that I am sad as can be over that.
Your right that the call had the advantage of catching them out, the issue here is that the element of surprise does not a) outweigh the risks, b) Outweigh Beast-Mode having 3 attempts to make 1/2 a fucking yard!
On February 03 2015 15:28 DannyJ wrote: Speaking of Wilson, overall he has the least amount of criticism imaginable for a QB that threw a pick to lose a Super Bowl.
Tom Brady threw 2 picks, and yet is being hailed as possible GOAT now, and won MVP, the only difference being one more pick and on the winning side. And him being on the winning side came down to a rookie playing on the defense which he doesn't even play in. Lets not forget one of brady's picks cost a TD AND conceded possesion, Wilson only cost a TD, also Wilson shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. Unlike brady's TD missing pick there was a receiver in sight, Lockette, who should have done better than bounce off a rookie. Even if Wilson throws it perfectly, which obviously he didnt, Lockette still has to make 1~1/2yard with both Butler AND Brandon Browner in the way, so its not even a necessarily a TD, so something went wrong there too. Brady obviously was awesome but the attempt to try and trash Wilson, even people going as far as defending Pete Carroll's play call lol, is crazy
On February 03 2015 22:48 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: + Show Spoiler +
On February 03 2015 07:35 Jibba wrote: They had plenty of reasons to go for it.
Just because ex-NFL players (typically idiots, even when it comes to football) don't like it doesn't mean the OC made a mistake. He got them the look they needed to win the game, and if Wilson were a better QB they would have.
Lynch is hard to take down but he's not the goal line beast everyone is thinking - there was nothing automatic about a 1 yard run up the middle and the stats prove it.
Watch the whole last series again, and you'll see most of the blame should be put in Wilson. He horribly mismanaged the clock and then put the ball in the worst possible spot without recognizing Butler coming in.
No one wants to put the blame on the franchise QB they're about to throw money at, but he really cost them and dumb luck didn't bail him out this time.
Well, he didn't mismanage the clock, really. At least, I didn't think so. That's a very difficult situation to play in. On one hand, he has to burn as much time as he can, so that they don't give the Patriots another shot at scoring. On the other hand, if they're not moving down field fast enough, he has to make sure he doesn't run out of time. As it stands, they would have left the Pats about 20 seconds and two time outs. I'd take an 80 yard field with that defense, feeling confident that they wouldn't get more than 3.
That said, you're right about the pass. It was off target. If the ball is 42" to the right, it's a TD, or they're right on the goal line. I think you're wrong in saying that it wasn't a mistake, though. Given the run that Lynch had the play before, I'd run him again right there. The pass has too high of a potential to get messed up. But, I will say this: I think it was a mistake because I don't think that Wilson is a very good pocket passer. He's incredible when plays break down, and his WRs adjust their routes probably better than any group in the league, but there is not a chance in hell I would have put the game in his hands down there. I don't think that I've ever said that I think he's a high level passer on here, and I know that I've argued this with friends and coworkers countless times. I've said this since the middle of last season, and I've added that I think he'll have the shortest career of the good, young QBs in the league right now because of his inability to pass from the pocket, and what appears to be a lack of development there. If nothing else, he really is too short to pass from the pocket effectively. The game plan for Wilson is always to stop the rush and contain him to the pocket. Why? Because he's not very effective from the pocket. That's easier said than done, but Carroll handed it to the Patriots on a fucking silver platter on that play. He intentionally put his QB in a position that least utilizes his skill set, and actually highlights his weakness. That's why it's a mistake.
I just watched the play like six times (heart breaking every time, too), and I think that if Wilson is a better QB, it's a very good play call. The Patriots are definitely rushing 7, but one LB comes off of the blitz to cover Lynch on the flat route. If the ball is placed at the right hash, then 21 has to go through another DB and WR to get at the ball: the pick was set perfectly. A brilliant call would have had Wilson faking the hand off to Lynch up the gut, keeping the same setup otherwise. Why? It would have diverted the DBs attention just enough that the pass could have been slightly off and it would not have made a difference. They were expecting a run, which is why this was a good call, but that they only had to recognize that it wasn't a run made it too easy for the DBs, imo. I think PA is the most underused strategy at the goal line, especially from teams that have powerful HBs. I know there's an inherent risk that the D won't bite, and that they'll take a sack, but they had 20 seconds and a time out to handle a 3-5 yard loss. It makes the passing game a little easier, too, since it forces the DBs to cover more field.
I would have liked a back shoulder to the tall WR whose name I can't remember because he never caught a ball before the Super Bowl too. A fade is the obvious throw, so the DB is probably going to play off of him a bit and wait for the jump ball. It's a simple read though. If the DB comes down, throw the fade, if the DB stays high, throw the back shoulder. If he gets doubled, throw it out of bounds and play another down.
I don't know... the only thing I'm sure of is that all of our discussions will never make a difference, and that fucker Tom Brady got his fourth. I hope you're happy, DK! (If you're reading this.) And I know that I am sad as can be over that.
Your right that the call had the advantage of catching them out, the issue here is that the element of surprise does not a) outweigh the risks, b) Outweigh Beast-Mode having 3 attempts to make 1/2 a fucking yard!
It was a full yard AND with 30 seconds and only 1 TO they only get 2 attempts.
As others are saying it wasn't a bad call - it was poorly played by the WR and QB and perfectly played by the CB.
It's hard to even argue it was the wrong call when it gave them a great look and (barring the almost freak INT) gave them the best chance to get 3 plays (including Lynch on 3rd and 4th downs with the TO to prepare for 4th down).
On February 03 2015 07:35 Jibba wrote: They had plenty of reasons to go for it.
Just because ex-NFL players (typically idiots, even when it comes to football) don't like it doesn't mean the OC made a mistake. He got them the look they needed to win the game, and if Wilson were a better QB they would have.
Lynch is hard to take down but he's not the goal line beast everyone is thinking - there was nothing automatic about a 1 yard run up the middle and the stats prove it.
Watch the whole last series again, and you'll see most of the blame should be put in Wilson. He horribly mismanaged the clock and then put the ball in the worst possible spot without recognizing Butler coming in.
No one wants to put the blame on the franchise QB they're about to throw money at, but he really cost them and dumb luck didn't bail him out this time.
For some reason, you've really been a Wilson hater recently.
The fact is that he has reliable stats, is extremely confident with the ball, making good decisions and accurate throws, and is great at running the ball without being a liability like RG3.
Wilson is a good QB, even if you want to be a hater. He's not like Brady or Rodgers, but he's definitely a quality QB. He didn't mismanaged the clock at all on that last drive and he was actually playing fairly well. The last play was a really bad throw but that entire drive was horribly managed from a playcalling perspective, which lands on the coaching staff.
I'm saying it exactly for the reason stated below your post. He's about to get paid, and he just threw a game-losing interception in the SB. We know he's not a great pocket passer, but even in that situation he had a huge passing lane provided by his OL.
The clock mismanagement was on both him and Carroll. You can say "he's got to listen to his coach" but we've seen plenty of other young QBs like Stafford or young Brady make that decision for themselves, at least to get to the line quickly.
And Wilson and Lynch are the only two Seahawks I can stand. I hate Pete Carroll and would love to rip into him, but I don't think he or Bevell fucked up on the play call. On the clock management after Lynch's run, yes.
Jibba, how was the clock mismanaged? They were intentionally letting time run off of it, and they managed to save a time out. I think they had to burn one pretty early in the half too, didn't they? I'm not sure where this clock mismangement idea is coming from right now.
I'm completely at a loss for how the drive, up to that point, was poorly called too (Stratos_speAr said that). How? Can someone please qualify these statements? In my opinion, it was well-played, and here's why:
They got to the one yard-line, ran the clock to about 30 seconds passed the ball. Logically, they're not thinking they'll get picked off. They figure for an incomplete, at worst, thereby leaving about 23 seconds. They'd come out in the same formation on 3rd down, and although the Patriots probably sell out on the run, they do not know what to expect; maybe the DBs and/or LBs hesitate for half of a second, giving Lynch enough room to plow into the end zone, leaving maybe 17-18 seconds on the clock for Brady. If they run on third, and don't get the touchdown, they have a time out in their pocket to stop the clock.
If they complete the pass on second down and fail to score, they can either call the time out, or hurry to run another play. Irrespective of how they use their time out, there are about 20 seconds left to run two plays if the pass is thrown to the right team.
How is that mismanaging the game? And how is the drive mismanaged from a play calling perspective when they're at the one yard line with 40 seconds to go?
On February 03 2015 15:28 DannyJ wrote: Speaking of Wilson, overall he has the least amount of criticism imaginable for a QB that threw a pick to lose a Super Bowl.
Tom Brady threw 2 picks, and yet is being hailed as possible GOAT now, and won MVP, the only difference being one more pick and on the winning side. And him being on the winning side came down to a rookie playing on the defense which he doesn't even play in. Lets not forget one of brady's picks cost a TD AND conceded possesion, Wilson only cost a TD, also Wilson shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. Unlike brady's TD missing pick there was a receiver in sight, Lockette, who should have done better than bounce off a rookie. Even if Wilson throws it perfectly, which obviously he didnt, Lockette still has to make 1~1/2yard with both Butler AND Brandon Browner in the way, so its not even a necessarily a TD, so something went wrong there too. Brady obviously was awesome but the attempt to try and trash Wilson, even people going as far as defending Pete Carroll's play call lol, is crazy
EDIT:
On February 03 2015 22:48 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: + Show Spoiler +
On February 03 2015 07:35 Jibba wrote: They had plenty of reasons to go for it.
Just because ex-NFL players (typically idiots, even when it comes to football) don't like it doesn't mean the OC made a mistake. He got them the look they needed to win the game, and if Wilson were a better QB they would have.
Lynch is hard to take down but he's not the goal line beast everyone is thinking - there was nothing automatic about a 1 yard run up the middle and the stats prove it.
Watch the whole last series again, and you'll see most of the blame should be put in Wilson. He horribly mismanaged the clock and then put the ball in the worst possible spot without recognizing Butler coming in.
No one wants to put the blame on the franchise QB they're about to throw money at, but he really cost them and dumb luck didn't bail him out this time.
Well, he didn't mismanage the clock, really. At least, I didn't think so. That's a very difficult situation to play in. On one hand, he has to burn as much time as he can, so that they don't give the Patriots another shot at scoring. On the other hand, if they're not moving down field fast enough, he has to make sure he doesn't run out of time. As it stands, they would have left the Pats about 20 seconds and two time outs. I'd take an 80 yard field with that defense, feeling confident that they wouldn't get more than 3.
That said, you're right about the pass. It was off target. If the ball is 42" to the right, it's a TD, or they're right on the goal line. I think you're wrong in saying that it wasn't a mistake, though. Given the run that Lynch had the play before, I'd run him again right there. The pass has too high of a potential to get messed up. But, I will say this: I think it was a mistake because I don't think that Wilson is a very good pocket passer. He's incredible when plays break down, and his WRs adjust their routes probably better than any group in the league, but there is not a chance in hell I would have put the game in his hands down there. I don't think that I've ever said that I think he's a high level passer on here, and I know that I've argued this with friends and coworkers countless times. I've said this since the middle of last season, and I've added that I think he'll have the shortest career of the good, young QBs in the league right now because of his inability to pass from the pocket, and what appears to be a lack of development there. If nothing else, he really is too short to pass from the pocket effectively. The game plan for Wilson is always to stop the rush and contain him to the pocket. Why? Because he's not very effective from the pocket. That's easier said than done, but Carroll handed it to the Patriots on a fucking silver platter on that play. He intentionally put his QB in a position that least utilizes his skill set, and actually highlights his weakness. That's why it's a mistake.
I just watched the play like six times (heart breaking every time, too), and I think that if Wilson is a better QB, it's a very good play call. The Patriots are definitely rushing 7, but one LB comes off of the blitz to cover Lynch on the flat route. If the ball is placed at the right hash, then 21 has to go through another DB and WR to get at the ball: the pick was set perfectly. A brilliant call would have had Wilson faking the hand off to Lynch up the gut, keeping the same setup otherwise. Why? It would have diverted the DBs attention just enough that the pass could have been slightly off and it would not have made a difference. They were expecting a run, which is why this was a good call, but that they only had to recognize that it wasn't a run made it too easy for the DBs, imo. I think PA is the most underused strategy at the goal line, especially from teams that have powerful HBs. I know there's an inherent risk that the D won't bite, and that they'll take a sack, but they had 20 seconds and a time out to handle a 3-5 yard loss. It makes the passing game a little easier, too, since it forces the DBs to cover more field.
I would have liked a back shoulder to the tall WR whose name I can't remember because he never caught a ball before the Super Bowl too. A fade is the obvious throw, so the DB is probably going to play off of him a bit and wait for the jump ball. It's a simple read though. If the DB comes down, throw the fade, if the DB stays high, throw the back shoulder. If he gets doubled, throw it out of bounds and play another down.
I don't know... the only thing I'm sure of is that all of our discussions will never make a difference, and that fucker Tom Brady got his fourth. I hope you're happy, DK! (If you're reading this.) And I know that I am sad as can be over that.
Your right that the call had the advantage of catching them out, the issue here is that the element of surprise does not a) outweigh the risks, b) Outweigh Beast-Mode having 3 attempts to make 1/2 a fucking yard!
It was a full yard AND with 30 seconds and only 1 TO they only get 2 attempts.
As others are saying it wasn't a bad call - it was poorly played by the WR and QB and perfectly played by the CB.
It's hard to even argue it was the wrong call when it gave them a great look and (barring the almost freak INT) gave them the best chance to get 3 plays (including Lynch on 3rd and 4th downs with the TO to prepare for 4th down).
It's not a bad call if the QB is better, but he's not, so it's kind of a bad call. It's about knowing your personnel, and how to best utilize it. Carroll failed to put his players in the best possible situation on that play.
If so many of us here can so easily critique Wilson's pocket passing, I think we can all agree that Carroll and co. see that weakness even better than us. It's the wrong call because it's the wrong guy throwing the ball. When the game is on the line, you let your best players make plays, and their best player wasn't even used as a decoy.
On February 03 2015 08:46 oneofthem wrote: it was no gain/intercepted because it actually never surprised the patriots at all.
“It’s man-to-man, you stack receivers like this,” he said, putting one fist in front of the other. “And boom!, you try to pick the guy. They had a good play, but we knew them, we watched them for two weeks.”
Butler had seen the stacked-receiver look in practice, where he’d been beaten on the play by Josh Boyce. “I didn’t let it happen again,” he said.
So what tipped Butler off on a quick slant in a situation where everyone was expecting run?
“They called goal-line three receivers; goal-line usually has two receivers,” he said. “You still could pass either way, but three receivers? That’s kind of letting you know something. I’m a pass defender first, and I just jumped the route.
“I don’t even remember who I was on. 83? I just knew it was stack and I jumped the route and that was the ball game.”
Honestly, you don't even need the explanation from the Butler. You can see it very easily without it: they dropped 5 into coverage. If they feared the run on that play, they would have had 7-8 committed to the run. I am not one to break down film at all, but it was very clear to me (after watching the replay a couple of times) that they were anticipating a throw. That said, it doesn't matter how they anticipate it if Wilson puts it on the guy's chest instead of where he'd need to stretch for it... and the WR should damn well have stretched for it, he may have knocked the ball down.
He's probably talking about the deep shots they took at 2 minutes instead of intermediate throws?
They burned a timeout (1 play after the 2 minute warning) and 45~ seconds to go 11 yards. Maybe we're just used to seeing a normal 2 minute offense work methodically down the field, and they weren't leaving much time for that. They were basically just going boom or bust, and Kearse made that ridiculous play.
EDIT: Actually both timeouts were pretty bad. Watching it again, that was just a horrible 2 minute offense. 2 minutes, 3 timeouts from the Pats' 49. You've got to do more than hope for lucky bombs.
EPT
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