|
|
On November 27 2013 19:34 USvBleakill wrote:
Besides the stupid CR / Messi comparison i would love to see Messi in a different team. The thing with him is that he is perfectly fit for the Barcelona system. Not only skill wise, physical too and on the mindset.
I think it would be amazing to see what happened if he would play for Bayern and how he function in a counter attack based league like Bundesliga or in with ManU or Chelsea in the more physical PL.
you can see him fail every time with Argentina 
Looking forward to the next WC.
|
Lolwat, Messi has stepped up a lot his game with Argentina. Check their last games.
He did get Maradona's number of goals with the albiceleste too.
|
On November 27 2013 21:46 Salteador Neo wrote:
Lolwat, Messi has stepped up a lot his game with Argentina. Check their last games.
He did get Maradona's number of goals with the albiceleste too.
A few friendlies and qualifiers won't convince anyone.
He needs to show his talent in tournaments. WC and Copa have all been disappointing so far.
|
|
|
On November 27 2013 21:44 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 19:34 USvBleakill wrote:
Besides the stupid CR / Messi comparison i would love to see Messi in a different team. The thing with him is that he is perfectly fit for the Barcelona system. Not only skill wise, physical too and on the mindset.
I think it would be amazing to see what happened if he would play for Bayern and how he function in a counter attack based league like Bundesliga or in with ManU or Chelsea in the more physical PL. you can see him fail every time with Argentina Looking forward to the next WC.
Thats a bit unfair because Argentina is a mediocre team, at best. They have some offensive stars but their squad lacks in depth and defense. Also in the past he was kinda forced into a playmaker role which just isn´t his thing..
|
On November 27 2013 21:58 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 21:44 sharkie wrote:On November 27 2013 19:34 USvBleakill wrote:
Besides the stupid CR / Messi comparison i would love to see Messi in a different team. The thing with him is that he is perfectly fit for the Barcelona system. Not only skill wise, physical too and on the mindset.
I think it would be amazing to see what happened if he would play for Bayern and how he function in a counter attack based league like Bundesliga or in with ManU or Chelsea in the more physical PL. you can see him fail every time with Argentina Looking forward to the next WC. Thats a bit unfair because Argentina is a mediocre team, at best. They have some offensive stars but their squad lacks in depth and defense. Also in the past he was kinda forced into a playmaker role which just isn´t his thing..
This.
Funny how they find the excuse of the 'bad teammmates' for CR but when its about Argentins (which is basically Messi + 2 + Mascherano + 7 average players), this excuse doesnt hold anymore!
I'm pretty sure Messi would shine in a counter attacking style as he probably is the fastest player with a ball in the feet. Oh and also, Messi didnt arrive in a team that plays for him, he forced a fabulous team to play for him because he is godlike. He was godlike on the right wing, he's even better in a 9.5 position.
Madrid also plays for Ronaldo, they always look for him. Benzema defends a bit more than a normal 9 to give more space to CR, Di Maria, Isco/Ozil, X. Alonso have always been passes-machine for CR.
|
Argentina has great attacking and that's about it. Has been true for several years now.
Also Postiga and Moutinho are solid, don't hate 
|
Messi being weak with argentina is just a myth perpetuaded by his haters.
He has being nothing sort of brilliant for them in the last world cup as well.
Too bad the argentinian team has so little talent compared to previous generations, if they had just one quality playmaker so messi was not forced to do everything by himself, they would really be a top contender.
Just look at their squad
defenders
+ Show Spoiler +marcos rojo
zabaleta
federico fernandez
otamendi
roncaglia
orban
basanta
midfielders
+ Show Spoiler +maxi rodriguez
di maria
banega
lamela
ricardo alvarez
biglia
Having four world class forwards and among them the best player in the world does nothing when I had to google the names of the rest of the team, lol.
Especially, their midfield looks poorer than a homeless indian. There's di maria, who as good as he is, he's not a playmaker and after him chaos.
Their defense is so average, considering they had players like samuel and ayala. No wonder they conceded 4 goals against germany last world cup.
The only reason people giving them a shot at the cup is the existence of a healthy messi.
As a long time argentina fan, I'd easily trade aguero/higuain for riquelme/veron, that would force messi to pull the scoring weight by himself but that's what he does in barca all these years anyway.
Portugal actually has much better all around players. Or didn't you guys watch the inch accurate passes they handed to cristiano against sweden.
|
Netherlands13554 Posts
On November 27 2013 09:13 Steveling wrote:
Twisted did you get any autographs?
Also, I'm soo jealous of you. xD
Hehe nah I didn't. Don't really care about that stuff and probably not even possible.
Was a great experience, too bad Messi wasn't playing but the best next thing happened: we won . Don't think that was gonna happen if a healthy Messi was on the pitch.
I don't get the debate about Messi being bad in Argentina either. In today's game, you can't do everything by yourself like Maradonna did for example. He was scrutinized heavily for his WC2010 performance, but what I saw was 1 amazing player setting up all the goals they scored. I think he got like what.. 6-7 assists? Very unlucky in his finishing as well, got a few balls on the post etc. Too bad the rest of the team sucked apart from a few players and they had a complete retard for a coach.
Come on they used the keeper (Sergio Romero I think?) that was playing for AZ Alkmaar at the time.
|
On November 27 2013 22:26 Steveling wrote:
Portugal actually has much better all around players. Or didn't you guys watch the inch accurate passes they handed to cristiano against sweden.
Not really. I would say the squads are comparable, Messi has more help offensively and Ronaldo more help defensively. All those inch accurate passes came from Moutinho, shut him down in midfield and there isn't much left for Portugal.
Mind Garay is a great defender IMO better than Pepe or Alves, but I don't think he has a solid partner. Maybe Colochini, but that is the best they can do.
|
On November 27 2013 22:12 WillyWanker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 21:58 USvBleakill wrote:On November 27 2013 21:44 sharkie wrote:On November 27 2013 19:34 USvBleakill wrote:
Besides the stupid CR / Messi comparison i would love to see Messi in a different team. The thing with him is that he is perfectly fit for the Barcelona system. Not only skill wise, physical too and on the mindset.
I think it would be amazing to see what happened if he would play for Bayern and how he function in a counter attack based league like Bundesliga or in with ManU or Chelsea in the more physical PL. you can see him fail every time with Argentina Looking forward to the next WC. Thats a bit unfair because Argentina is a mediocre team, at best. They have some offensive stars but their squad lacks in depth and defense. Also in the past he was kinda forced into a playmaker role which just isn´t his thing.. This. Funny how they find the excuse of the 'bad teammmates' for CR but when its about Argentins (which is basically Messi + 2 + Mascherano + 7 average players), this excuse doesnt hold anymore! I'm pretty sure Messi would shine in a counter attacking style as he probably is the fastest player with a ball in the feet. Oh and also, Messi didnt arrive in a team that plays for him, he forced a fabulous team to play for him because he is godlike. He was godlike on the right wing, he's even better in a 9.5 position. Madrid also plays for Ronaldo, they always look for him. Benzema defends a bit more than a normal 9 to give more space to CR, Di Maria, Isco/Ozil, X. Alonso have always been passes-machine for CR.
I dont think Messi is a "good" (obviously still better than 99% of the others) counter attack player. Or at least CR is better in that then Messi.
Messis game is to drop between midfield and defending lines, pick the ball up with his back to the goal, turn and pick up speed. That situation is when he is the most dangerous. If you look at the teams that beat Barca "consistently" (Inter, Real, Chelsea and Bayern) they made their entire defensive strategy based on denying that situation. Barcas "tici taca" playing style is perfect in creating this situation.
Ronaldo on the other hand is a "gambler" and the perfect player for "overloading" one side of the field. He almost never defends or presses but not because he "doesn´t want to" or "i am the best of all time!!! i don´t need to defend" bull****, its because the system dictates that. He is the ultimate "deep threat" in todays football and impossible to defend if he is able to pic up speed. Thats why a lot of experts were surprised that Real selled Özil because he is most likely the best player for these kind of 30 meter counter attack passes with full speed.
Thats maybe the secret behind "Ronaldo is better in his national team than Messi" because arranging a team to Ronaldos strenght is way easier then to Messis. To play to Messis strenght you need a very specific type of player (small, very good on the ball, unselfish), a specific spacing on the field and very well timed running lanes. And here comes the factor time in play, in club teams you have hundreds of hours practice to train this type of play that you just don´t have with the national teams and 3 weeks of preperation before WC´s.
An example for that is Luis Van Gaals Netherlands team from 2000 to 2002. Van Gaal is known for a very ball posetion heavy system with relatively static positional play and a lot of passes. In a club this is great because you can practice that but in a national team with limited time it´s very problematic. The didn´t make it to the WC 2002 with players like de Boer, Stam, Davids, Cocu, Overmars and Kluivert in their primes.
Ronaldo on the other hand just needs some space in counter attack situations, some midfielders that can win defensive balls and some talent on the wing to overload the side in 10 vs 10 situations. Thats way easier to practice and to execute.
|
Mascherano used to be one of the best deep-lying playmakers in the world till Barcelona decided to ruin him and change him to a centre half.
I rate Portugal and Argentina quality wise quite evenly.
Mountinho is awesome, but Argentina had Mascherano. :/
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On November 27 2013 22:56 sharkie wrote:
Mascherano used to be one of the best deep-lying playmakers in the world till Barcelona decided to ruin him and change him to a centre half.
I rate Portugal and Argentina quality wise quite evenly.
Mountinho is awesome, but Argentina had Mascherano. :/
100% agree lol. Mascherano was evolving into better than Makelele as a defensive midfielder, but now he is a CB....a fucking shite CB lol.
Him at Liverpool with Alonso was the best 2 holding mids in a 4-2-3-1 to date imo, still can't see any pairing better than those two were.
Still for me Argentina > Portugal in quality by a mile lol
Di Maria - Messi - Aguero - Higuain - Mascherano - Lavezzi - Coloccini - Campagnaro - Zabaleta
Not bad huh vs
Ronaldo and Moutinho
Nani isn't as good as those listed
Merieles way to old now he is to slow
Veluso not a good holding mid yet
Back 4s are the same level vs eachother as well i think. Keepers also the same, but offensively Argentina > Portugal by a mile.
|
I actually noticed the only ones calling Argentina a bad team are our TL Messi fanboys haha.
I especially liked WillyWanker's "Argentins (which is basically Messi + 2 + Mascherano + 7 average players)" - so the only good players Argentina has are the ones playing at Barca. XD
|
And the only stating otherwise are you and pande known for your cristiano affiliation?
Lol Captain obvious.
|
pretty much the whole world knows argentina has a stronger team than portugal
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On November 27 2013 23:25 Steveling wrote:
And the only stating otherwise are you and pande known for your cristiano affiliation?
Lol Captain obvious.
QQ
I think Ronaldo is better yes, but i also a few posts ago called Messi better overall
In terms of who i would rather have in my team it would be Ronaldo as he would fit into a team easier than Messi, as Messi needs great players to complete his 1-2s where as Ronaldo doesn't do that much he just runs passed people for fun lol xD
ANYWAY
I stand by Argentina dwarf Portugal in squad and it shows as Argentina like bookmakers 2nd favorite vs Portugal who are less odds than England...ENGLAND!! LOL xD
|
And yet Argentina seem overrated to me.
Messi is (in my opinion) the best player in the world, but for Argentina he cannot be as effective as for Barcelona because he and his teammates at Barcelona are just so well atuned.
Di Maria, Aguero and Higuain are all really good, but they are not outstanding by any means. That is why their offensive quality - as good as it is - doesn't qualify them for being a title contender. Let alone their defense.
|
On November 27 2013 23:05 Pandemona wrote:
offensively Argentina > Portugal by a mile.
Yeah, I really don't see this as much of a debate. It is Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Lavezzi and Di Maria vs basically only Ronaldo.
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
For christ sake that is so fucking awesome. Like jizz worthy xD
Just think if they played club level performances at national level, you have Messi who can take on the whole back 4, you have Aguero who can score a goal from anywhere on a pitch which great flicks and such. You have Lavezzi and DiMaria with so much pace and good ball skills. To top it off with Higuain around lol haha!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
