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On October 29 2013 23:40 warding wrote:
What if C.Ronaldo had stayed at Manchester United? He'd probably have been producing stats at the same rate as he has been at RM, MU would probably have won the last 4 championships (making it 7 in a row), the Premier League would probably be considered the most entertaining league by far (less of a debate between La Liga and PL since a lot of the fun in La Liga is the fact you have the two best players in the world head-to-head). It would be harder to compare stats between Messi and Ronaldo - Barcelona would rape La Liga while Premier League would be perceived as more competitive, even despite MU's total annihilation of the league in the last 7 years. He'd be the king of the most popular league in the world, with legendary status at the most popular club in the world. This would be his 11th season at MU. He'd have broken Alan Shearer's record as top goalscorer in the PL by now.
IMO he'd have a greater chance at winning more PoY awards than he does now.
I agree. Had he stayed at Man Utd he would probably have gone down in history as one of the all-time greats of both the club and the Premier league, and now he is always in the shadow of Messi. Not only that but if he fails to win "La decima" I doubt his performances and records will be enough for even the fans to consider him an alltime great.
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Netherlands13554 Posts
On October 30 2013 00:48 city42 wrote:
Even now his pathetic behavior is continuing with the penalty nonsense in recent weeks.
Penalty nonsense? He would take the penalty if it wasn't for that madman Guardiola screaming from the bench that Müller should take it. It's embarrassing as fuck for a player with the stature of Robben to have to hear from the sidelines that he can't take the penalty. Players on the pitch (and especially those that won the club the Champion's League) decide who take penalties, not coaches. And they had decided, Robben would just take it. Absolutely ridiculous action by Guardiola. Actually, rumours from Bayern are telling that Guardiola is even more obsessed/scary than van Gaal. That should tell you something.
And what you guys are describing is a player that just works hard, doesn't mean he's the best.
Ribery is a player with decent individual skills and a good teamplayer. Doesn't make him the best in the world. He's just a better version of the Liverpool version of Dirk Kuijt.
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On October 30 2013 01:01 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:35 sharkie wrote:On October 30 2013 00:24 WillyWanker wrote:On October 29 2013 23:01 city42 wrote:On October 29 2013 18:01 WillyWanker wrote:Ribery is maybe the 5th or 6th best player in Bayern that's why. And of course I'm biased, but probably less than you  How can the best player in the Bundesliga be the 5th or 6th best player on Bayern? Well maybe people saying that Ribery is the best Bundesliga player are stupid  Standards nowadays say that an offensive player is better than a defensive one just because scoring goals is fancier than stopping one. Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Müller, Alaba, Neuer, Kroos (and even Robben if he was more regular) are all better than Ribery but he's the one that will shine in this team because he's the one finishing the attempts... I never liked him but I have to say that he has been very impressive last season (and this one too)... just not more impressive than his teammates that I listed. He is the best Bundesliga player because he is DEFENDING like crazy. Ribery always had these offensive capabilities, but since Heynkes he's learned to give everything to his team by defending. Please watch more Bayern matches before you make statements like these (Neuer better than Ribery hahahaha) Somehow I think the ridiculous amount of goals and assists by Ronaldo and Messi warrant defending less. Having said that a Dutch analyst yesterday said Ronaldo is one of the hardest working players on the planet and I completly agree with him. He defends a lot as well you do realise he got tricked by Dani Alves at his own 16. Messi is an incredible team player as well with the amount of assits he produces. Seriously defensive capabilities by offensive players are overrated sure you need some of it but it's hardly a deciding factor in who is better except maybe when 2 players are very very close to each other in all other aspects.
Have you seen Bayern's demolition of Barca this year? It seriously is NOT overrated.
Just take it like this: If you have 4 offensive minded players defending less than others then the other team KNOWS they only have to focus on those 4.
If you have the whole team defending equally and almost equally attacking as well WHO THE HECK should you defend against? Alaba is very good, but only because Ribery COVERS for him when he has to. Would C.Ronaldo ever cover for Marcelo? Yeah right.
Heynkes has changed Bayern in a sick, sick way. Remember, Barca was DESTROYED in two legs. The best team of this decade, humiliated.
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On October 30 2013 01:08 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 01:01 RvB wrote:On October 30 2013 00:35 sharkie wrote:On October 30 2013 00:24 WillyWanker wrote:On October 29 2013 23:01 city42 wrote:On October 29 2013 18:01 WillyWanker wrote:Ribery is maybe the 5th or 6th best player in Bayern that's why. And of course I'm biased, but probably less than you How can the best player in the Bundesliga be the 5th or 6th best player on Bayern? Well maybe people saying that Ribery is the best Bundesliga player are stupid Standards nowadays say that an offensive player is better than a defensive one just because scoring goals is fancier than stopping one. Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Müller, Alaba, Neuer, Kroos (and even Robben if he was more regular) are all better than Ribery but he's the one that will shine in this team because he's the one finishing the attempts... I never liked him but I have to say that he has been very impressive last season (and this one too)... just not more impressive than his teammates that I listed. He is the best Bundesliga player because he is DEFENDING like crazy. Ribery always had these offensive capabilities, but since Heynkes he's learned to give everything to his team by defending. Please watch more Bayern matches before you make statements like these (Neuer better than Ribery hahahaha) Somehow I think the ridiculous amount of goals and assists by Ronaldo and Messi warrant defending less. Having said that a Dutch analyst yesterday said Ronaldo is one of the hardest working players on the planet and I completly agree with him. He defends a lot as well you do realise he got tricked by Dani Alves at his own 16. Messi is an incredible team player as well with the amount of assits he produces. Seriously defensive capabilities by offensive players are overrated sure you need some of it but it's hardly a deciding factor in who is better except maybe when 2 players are very very close to each other in all other aspects. Have you seen Bayern's demolition of Barca this year? It seriously is NOT overrated. Just take it like this: If you have 4 offensive minded players defending less than others then the other team KNOWS they only have to focus on those 4. If you have the whole team defending equally and almost equally attacking as well WHO THE HECK should you defend against? Alaba is very good, but only because Ribery COVERS for him when he has to. Would C.Ronaldo ever cover for Marcelo? Yeah right. Heynkes has changed Bayern in a sick, sick way. Remember, Barca was DESTROYED in two legs. The best team of this decade, humiliated.
And they destroyed barca because Ribery did defensive work? I don't know if you actually watched El Classico but Ronaldo was on the left back position a lot as well so why didn't they win from Barca?
Seriously there's a lot more to the Bayern win than the defensive work of offensive minded players...
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Netherlands13554 Posts
It's irrelevant anyway, Bayern beat Barca because they had the better team/form, not because they had the best player in the world on their team, which is the discussion here.
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I can't see Ribery as the BEST player in the world. I'm ridiculously biased, but still. I don't think he is top 5
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My personal favorite is Sweinsteiger as mentioned, I think his passing and work in midfield are instrumental to Bayern. I remember seeing a 2 matches where he didn't play and Bayern looked poor, (sample size of two matches is of course silly, but still ).
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On October 30 2013 01:20 Twisted wrote:
It's irrelevant anyway, Bayern beat Barca because they had the better team/form, not because they had the best player in the world on their team, which is the discussion here.
No man, bayern didn't beat barca cause the spanish were playing like shit all year and messi was injured, they won cause ribery marked hard.
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On October 30 2013 01:21 Arevall wrote:
I can't see Ribery as the BEST player in the world. I'm ridiculously biased, but still. I don't think he is top 5
I'm not sure about top 5 but I'm pretty sure both Messi and Ronaldo are better than him. And I feel most people agree
He might still deserve the award tho.
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On October 30 2013 01:06 Twisted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:48 city42 wrote:
Even now his pathetic behavior is continuing with the penalty nonsense in recent weeks.
Penalty nonsense? He would take the penalty if it wasn't for that madman Guardiola screaming from the bench that Müller should take it. It's embarrassing as fuck for a player with the stature of Robben to have to hear from the sidelines that he can't take the penalty. Players on the pitch (and especially those that won the club the Champion's League) decide who take penalties, not coaches. And they had decided, Robben would just take it. Absolutely ridiculous action by Guardiola. Actually, rumours from Bayern are telling that Guardiola is even more obsessed/scary than van Gaal. That should tell you something. And what you guys are describing is a player that just works hard, doesn't mean he's the best. Ribery is a player with decent individual skills and a good teamplayer. Doesn't make him the best in the world. He's just a better version of the Liverpool version of Dirk Kuijt.
That's not how it works at all. The manager designates the penalty taker before the game, and Müller was Guardiola's choice. I heard this topic discussed by ex-professionals in the last few days and that was the consensus. Also, to my knowledge, Robben hasn't taken a penalty for Bayern since that poor effort against Cech in the CL final.
There was an incident in last year's English League Cup final where Swansea won a penalty and had a player already with 2 goals. He demanded to take the penalty but his teammate wouldn't let him, and they had a big argument on the pitch. The manager Michael Laudrup took responsibility after the game, saying he forgot to designate a penalty taker beforehand.
This discussion has gotten way out of hand. Who said anything about Ribery being the best player in the world or Ribery's defensive work being the sole reason for Bayern crushing Barca? All I said is that he's better than the 5th or 6th best player at Bayern, and was the best player in the Bundesliga last season. Messi and Ronaldo are clearly better than him, and probably a couple others.
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On October 30 2013 01:15 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 01:08 sharkie wrote:On October 30 2013 01:01 RvB wrote:On October 30 2013 00:35 sharkie wrote:On October 30 2013 00:24 WillyWanker wrote:On October 29 2013 23:01 city42 wrote:On October 29 2013 18:01 WillyWanker wrote:Ribery is maybe the 5th or 6th best player in Bayern that's why. And of course I'm biased, but probably less than you How can the best player in the Bundesliga be the 5th or 6th best player on Bayern? Well maybe people saying that Ribery is the best Bundesliga player are stupid Standards nowadays say that an offensive player is better than a defensive one just because scoring goals is fancier than stopping one. Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Müller, Alaba, Neuer, Kroos (and even Robben if he was more regular) are all better than Ribery but he's the one that will shine in this team because he's the one finishing the attempts... I never liked him but I have to say that he has been very impressive last season (and this one too)... just not more impressive than his teammates that I listed. He is the best Bundesliga player because he is DEFENDING like crazy. Ribery always had these offensive capabilities, but since Heynkes he's learned to give everything to his team by defending. Please watch more Bayern matches before you make statements like these (Neuer better than Ribery hahahaha) Somehow I think the ridiculous amount of goals and assists by Ronaldo and Messi warrant defending less. Having said that a Dutch analyst yesterday said Ronaldo is one of the hardest working players on the planet and I completly agree with him. He defends a lot as well you do realise he got tricked by Dani Alves at his own 16. Messi is an incredible team player as well with the amount of assits he produces. Seriously defensive capabilities by offensive players are overrated sure you need some of it but it's hardly a deciding factor in who is better except maybe when 2 players are very very close to each other in all other aspects. Have you seen Bayern's demolition of Barca this year? It seriously is NOT overrated. Just take it like this: If you have 4 offensive minded players defending less than others then the other team KNOWS they only have to focus on those 4. If you have the whole team defending equally and almost equally attacking as well WHO THE HECK should you defend against? Alaba is very good, but only because Ribery COVERS for him when he has to. Would C.Ronaldo ever cover for Marcelo? Yeah right. Heynkes has changed Bayern in a sick, sick way. Remember, Barca was DESTROYED in two legs. The best team of this decade, humiliated. And they destroyed barca because Ribery did defensive work? I don't know if you actually watched El Classico but Ronaldo was on the left back position a lot as well so why didn't they win from Barca? Seriously there's a lot more to the Bayern win than the defensive work of offensive minded players...
They destroyed Barca because everyone did defensive work. Not Ribery alone.
I was just answering to your statement "defensive capabilities by offensive players are overrated"
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And like spain wasn't ridiculous enough with their new midfielders silva, isco etc it seems that Diego Costa chose them over brazil, lol.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On October 30 2013 00:13 Steveling wrote:
Something that these simple stats don't show is how "bad" of a shooter cristiano really is.
Well, comparing to messi.
Last year iirc he had like 100 more shots than messi but he scored less.
Messi needs typically 3-4 shots to get one in, while cristiano needs to waste 6-7.
Ronaldo shoots from outside the box, Messi doesn't would be the reason for that stat
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On October 30 2013 03:39 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:13 Steveling wrote:
Something that these simple stats don't show is how "bad" of a shooter cristiano really is.
Well, comparing to messi.
Last year iirc he had like 100 more shots than messi but he scored less.
Messi needs typically 3-4 shots to get one in, while cristiano needs to waste 6-7. Ronaldo shoots from outside the box, Messi doesn't would be the reason for that stat
Not really since cristiano scores a shitload of tap ins and penalties. Messi creates most of his chances.
Also it's the same % in free kick goals, messi needs 5/6 free kicks while cristiano needs 9/10.
And last but not least there was a top down field image which represented the position they shoot from with red dots.
It was pretty much the same.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Well id love to see the last Messi goal via freekick or not from 30 yards...
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On October 30 2013 01:06 Twisted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:48 city42 wrote:
Even now his pathetic behavior is continuing with the penalty nonsense in recent weeks.
Penalty nonsense? He would take the penalty if it wasn't for that madman Guardiola screaming from the bench that Müller should take it. It's embarrassing as fuck for a player with the stature of Robben to have to hear from the sidelines that he can't take the penalty. Players on the pitch (and especially those that won the club the Champion's League) decide who take penalties, not coaches. And they had decided, Robben would just take it. Absolutely ridiculous action by Guardiola. Actually, rumours from Bayern are telling that Guardiola is even more obsessed/scary than van Gaal. That should tell you something. And what you guys are describing is a player that just works hard, doesn't mean he's the best. Ribery is a player with decent individual skills and a good teamplayer. Doesn't make him the best in the world. He's just a better version of the Liverpool version of Dirk Kuijt.
Is this something you have made up your self or is it some secret information? Of course the manager decides.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Arsenal vs Chelsea
Kick Off 19:45 GMT (+00:00)
Arsenal
Fabianski
Jenkinson Vermalen Koscielny Monreal
Ramsey Wilshere Rosicky Cazorla Ryo
Bendtner
Chelsea
Schwarzer
Apzilicueta Cahill Luiz Bertrand
Essien Mikel
De Bruyne Mata Willian
Eto'o
fun fun awaits
Arsenal dont want to be embarrassed by the looks of things
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Austria24422 Posts
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I hope this game is half as good as our Ro16 game from last season. 7-5! As long as we win :D
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EPT
