Now this is the barca of previous seasons. Finally they have shaken off that big slump. Also Tata seems to be an awesome coach.
actually I've read somewhere that last week Barcelona had less ball possession than the opponent team for the first time in 5 years? this is not Tiki Taka, or the Barca of previous seasons
It's a new Barca, better, improved, under a good coach
Better, improved... a bit early to say no? They've been really shaky during their victory against Valencia and Sevilla and they couldn't defeat Atletico. Sure it's the beginning of the season, they shouldn't be ready yet, but the tactical changes haven't been 100% good for Barcelona. Losing possession means letting the opposing team dictate a bit more the pace of the game. And Barça players aren't good in defensive situations, which will happen a lot more if they don't keep the ball. Can a team composed of 2 offensive wing backs, an aging 6, and a 4 man offensive squad that do few defensive effort play this football style? I'm not sure. Against lower team, talent solve many situations, but against big teams you need cohesion and solidity. The tiki-taka brings solidity in a way that shouldn't be neglected...
Martino is pretty cool indeed, but I think he should make more turnovers with the youngsters when the games are 2 or 3-0. We haven't seen Bartra, Dos Santos, Tello much
About the possession % thing, it's true yeah, 49/51 Rayo But they also said that the average possession of the season was just 0.2% lower than last year at the same time. Yesterday they had 65% at some point so...
West Brom v Arsenal tonight in the League Cup. I'm actually really excited for this game, because we'll (presumably) finally get to see Nicklas Bendtner play. He's always had the talent to succeed, but he's been an idiot off the pitch. But the last few weeks, he has been saying all the right things, and if he can translate it to the pitch, we'll actually have a real backup for Giroud.
Wenger also said that Tomas Rosicky will be back in the squad by the end of the week, which is great news. I was beginning to get worried as we hadn't had any updates on him in a while after he mysteriously got injured.
On September 25 2013 19:39 Ferrose wrote: West Brom v Arsenal tonight in the League Cup. I'm actually really excited for this game, because we'll (presumably) finally get to see Nicklas Bendtner play. He's always had the talent to succeed, but he's been an idiot off the pitch. But the last few weeks, he has been saying all the right things, and if he can translate it to the pitch, we'll actually have a real backup for Giroud.
Wenger also said that Tomas Rosicky will be back in the squad by the end of the week, which is great news. I was beginning to get worried as we hadn't had any updates on him in a while after he mysteriously got injured.
I would consider watching this if Özil plays. Is there any information about him so far?
On September 25 2013 19:39 Ferrose wrote: West Brom v Arsenal tonight in the League Cup. I'm actually really excited for this game, because we'll (presumably) finally get to see Nicklas Bendtner play. He's always had the talent to succeed, but he's been an idiot off the pitch. But the last few weeks, he has been saying all the right things, and if he can translate it to the pitch, we'll actually have a real backup for Giroud.
Wenger also said that Tomas Rosicky will be back in the squad by the end of the week, which is great news. I was beginning to get worried as we hadn't had any updates on him in a while after he mysteriously got injured.
I would consider watching this if Özil plays. Is there any information about him so far?
Now this is the barca of previous seasons. Finally they have shaken off that big slump. Also Tata seems to be an awesome coach.
actually I've read somewhere that last week Barcelona had less ball possession than the opponent team for the first time in 5 years? this is not Tiki Taka, or the Barca of previous seasons
It's a new Barca, better, improved, under a good coach
Better, improved... a bit early to say no? They've been really shaky during their victory against Valencia and Sevilla and they couldn't defeat Atletico. Sure it's the beginning of the season, they shouldn't be ready yet, but the tactical changes haven't been 100% good for Barcelona. Losing possession means letting the opposing team dictate a bit more the pace of the game. And Barça players aren't good in defensive situations, which will happen a lot more if they don't keep the ball. Can a team composed of 2 offensive wing backs, an aging 6, and a 4 man offensive squad that do few defensive effort play this football style? I'm not sure. Against lower team, talent solve many situations, but against big teams you need cohesion and solidity. The tiki-taka brings solidity in a way that shouldn't be neglected...
Martino is pretty cool indeed, but I think he should make more turnovers with the youngsters when the games are 2 or 3-0. We haven't seen Bartra, Dos Santos, Tello much
About the possession % thing, it's true yeah, 49/51 Rayo But they also said that the average possession of the season was just 0.2% lower than last year at the same time. Yesterday they had 65% at some point so...
Its the same story as Bayern, Chelsea, Real or ManU/City. We will not see how good they really are until the CL playoffs. For Barcelona i am a bit worried because it kind of looks like that their play stile is figured out a bit and clubs like Bayern, Dortmund or Real has so much more quality then 3 or 4 years ago.
I watched the whole Rayo/Barca game and there were 2 things that came to my mind:
first, Rayo impressed me a lot with their press. They jumped the ball sometimes with 5 or 6 players and did this for 90 minutes. They lost 0:4 but every goal was a individual thing that only a few players can do.
second, in the german or premier league messi/ronaldo Barca/Real would score like 30% less goals. I saw more 1v1 situations in this single game then in 34 games of Bayern in the german league. No wonder they score so much with this offensive opponents.
Is that why they lead CL scorers each and every year? Messi ironically has scored 4 times in a game vs arsenal and 5 times in a game vs bayer leverkusen.
I'm sorry but these two players would score even more in other leagues, cause of difference in overall quality.
La Liga isn't the hardest league, we've had this before. It's not a coincidence that Chelsea has repeatedly knocked out Barcelona... or should have, Ovrebo.
On September 25 2013 21:41 Steveling wrote: Is that why they lead CL scorers each and every year? Messi ironically has scored 4 times in a game vs arsenal and 5 times in a game vs bayer leverkusen.
I'm sorry but these two players would score even more in other leagues, cause of difference in overall quality.
You hit exactly the point i was trying to make. Arsenal tried to play offensive against Barca which is just a bad idea considering the offensive quality that they undoubtably have.
The thing is in super defensive strategic setups individual quality doesn't matter that much. Yesterday Dortmund played 1860 Munich (currently 5. in second german league) and they scored their first goal in overtime. It was 0:0 after 90 minutes. In a subjective way it looks to me that teams in England or Germany are willing to go into a game saying "i just want a 0:0" or even not loosing too high. In La Liga the games i saw were way more offensive which is obviously fun to watch but it leads to more goals by Barca or Real.
And one more thing to notice in German league is that the Goalkeepers are way better. There are like 10 guys out there that would have the number 1 spot in almost every other national team.
On September 25 2013 21:50 DarkLordOlli wrote: La Liga isn't the hardest league, we've had this before. It's not a coincidence that Chelsea has repeatedly knocked out Barcelona... or should have, Ovrebo.
Assuming the EPL is better than La Liga let's not pretend like it's way better. If anything the two leagues are very close to each other. Messi and Ronaldo will score as much anywhere regardless of the league. They're just in a class of their own.
On September 25 2013 21:41 Steveling wrote: Is that why they lead CL scorers each and every year? Messi ironically has scored 4 times in a game vs arsenal and 5 times in a game vs bayer leverkusen.
I'm sorry but these two players would score even more in other leagues, cause of difference in overall quality.
You hit exactly the point i was trying to make. Arsenal tried to play offensive against Barca which is just a bad idea considering the offensive quality that they undoubtably have.
The thing is in super defensive strategic setups individual quality doesn't matter that much. Yesterday Dortmund played 1860 Munich (currently 5. in second german league) and they scored their first goal in overtime. It was 0:0 after 90 minutes. In a subjective way it looks to me that teams in England or Germany are willing to go into a game saying "i just want a 0:0" or even not loosing too high. In La Liga the games i saw were way more offensive which is obviously fun to watch but it leads to more goals by Barca or Real.
And one more thing to notice in German league is that the Goalkeepers are way better. There are like 10 guys out there that would have the number 1 spot in almost every other national team.
Come on, Dortmund and Bayern score 4 to 6 goals every other week, it's the same thing as in Spain... Even if Messi/Ronaldo scored 30% less goal, they would still be around 30-35 and would be easily the best scorer of the League.
Concerning the Chelsea guy, sure Chelsea probably deserved to qualify in 2009, but in 2012 they should have conceded at least 5 goals in each game, Barcelona just couldn't score for some mystic reason (and Cech). MU took 3 in a final where they had no chance, Leverkussen 6 or 7 (I cannot even remember), Milan 4, Bayern took 4 in 2009 too, ... Did Milan that won 2-0 on the first game or MU tried to be full offensive ? x)
On September 25 2013 21:50 DarkLordOlli wrote: La Liga isn't the hardest league, we've had this before. It's not a coincidence that Chelsea has repeatedly knocked out Barcelona... or should have, Ovrebo.
When did we reach that agreement? lol
Iirc we said that liga has 1) more european trophies, 2) better overall players, 3) knock out other leagues around in cl more than they lose, 4) better teams
and the only counter argument was that english teams don't care so much about losing in europa(???), which doesn't answer any of the 4 arguments.
The argument was that La Liga is dominated by two teams whereas the competition is a lot higher in England. A lot of coaches say that frequently, Mourinho most recently.
I need your advice. I'd like to visit Luxembourg-Russia football match on 11th of October, but can't find where to buy the tickets. I am in Germany right now, I tried viagogo.de, but they are asking 300 euros for the cheapest category. I call bulls**t on that price.
If you are from Luxembourg and ready to help me with the tickets, just PM me.
On September 25 2013 23:12 DarkLordOlli wrote: The argument was that La Liga is dominated by two teams whereas the competition is a lot higher in England. A lot of coaches say that frequently, Mourinho most recently.
Have you seen the dutch league, up to 5 teams contest the trophy untill the very last fixture some seasons. So, the dutch league is better.
What kind of silly argument is that. What you are trying to say, is that the PL is more entertaining for you, not better. You find it more entertaining cause there's more of a back and forth race for the first seat, which is understandable. So, entertaining=/better.
Also some people enjoy high level football more even if it's more stale in competition rather than a weaker but more robust scene.
You didn't think it through obviously. Top english teams can compete with top Spanish, German or Italian teams just fine. But the competition in England is much higher. Which basically means that the "middle ground" in England is stronger. All the top teams in England will drop points continuously throughout the season, there will be losses and draws against teams that are not title contenders. That speaks volumes about the overall level of the Premier League.
I didn't say that one was more entertaining than the other.
On September 25 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: But the competition in England is much higher. Which basically means that the "middle ground" in England is stronger.
Here's the flaw in your pov. The competition is higher cause the top teams are weaker than barca/rm in comparison. For example, if we swap man.u and chelsea with barca/rm what do you think will happen? The competition in liga will rise and in pl will drop.
Now about your "middle ground" thingie. 1) Time and time again average liga teams have knocked out top PL teams over the years in europe. La coruna, villareal and bilbao from the top of my head. The opposite hasn't happened for god knows how long.
2) Middle ground liga teams are stomping europa league. But I forgot, silly me, PL teams just don't care about europa.
So, how can you prove against these 2 points that pl's average teams are better than liga's.
On September 25 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: But the competition in England is much higher. Which basically means that the "middle ground" in England is stronger.
Here's the flaw in your pov. The competition is higher cause the top teams are weaker than barca/rm in comparison. For example, if we swap man.u and chelsea with barca/rm what do you think will happen? The competition in liga will rise and in pl will drop.
Now about your "middle ground" thingie. 1) Time and time again average liga teams have knocked out top PL teams over the years in europe. La coruna, villareal and bilbao from the top of my head. The opposite hasn't happened for god knows how long.
2) Middle ground liga teams are stomping europa league. But I forgot, silly me, PL teams just don't care about europa.
So, how can you prove against these 2 points that pl's average teams are better than liga's.
English teams really don't care about the Europa League. Playing on Thursdays is considered an embarrassment rather than an honor. AVB was widely criticized last season for using strong lineups in the Europa instead of focusing only on the PL.
I couldn't care less about the PL vs. La Liga debate, but trust me, teams from Spain take the Europa League much more seriously than their English counterparts.
On September 25 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: But the competition in England is much higher. Which basically means that the "middle ground" in England is stronger.
Here's the flaw in your pov. The competition is higher cause the top teams are weaker than barca/rm in comparison. For example, if we swap man.u and chelsea with barca/rm what do you think will happen? The competition in liga will rise and in pl will drop.
Now about your "middle ground" thingie. 1) Time and time again average liga teams have knocked out top PL teams over the years in europe. La coruna, villareal and bilbao from the top of my head. The opposite hasn't happened for god knows how long.
2) Middle ground liga teams are stomping europa league. But I forgot, silly me, PL teams just don't care about europa.
So, how can you prove against these 2 points that pl's average teams are better than liga's.
English teams really don't care about the Europa League. Playing on Thursdays is considered an embarrassment rather than an honor. AVB was widely criticized last season for using strong lineups in the Europa instead of focusing only on the PL.
I couldn't care less about the PL vs. La Liga debate, but trust me, teams from Spain take the Europa League much more seriously than their English counterparts.
1) " Time and time again average liga teams have knocked out top PL teams over the years in europe" The odd team knocking out a superior opponent proves nothing. Celtic have beaten barca in europe, yet everyone knows they would struggle in a top league. You have to look at success over a period of time, and English leagues have shown they are just as good in Europe, yet they struggle in their league, so the conclusion that the league is harder is pretty easy to make.
2) "Middle ground liga teams are stomping europa league. "
Umm Swansea that came 9th in the premier league just stomped Valencia and other teams like Tottenham arn't doing too bad.
To be fair in the last couple of years the competition may of dropped, but i think the lack of respect of the premier league mainly comes from city and man u's recent terrible performances. But this year it is hands down the most competitive league, every team is better, every team is good, and its looking more like a top 6 this year, with arsenal, Tottenham, man u, man city, liverpool and Chelsea all looking strong
On September 25 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: But the competition in England is much higher. Which basically means that the "middle ground" in England is stronger.
Here's the flaw in your pov. The competition is higher cause the top teams are weaker than barca/rm in comparison. For example, if we swap man.u and chelsea with barca/rm what do you think will happen? The competition in liga will rise and in pl will drop.
Now about your "middle ground" thingie. 1) Time and time again average liga teams have knocked out top PL teams over the years in europe. La coruna, villareal and bilbao from the top of my head. The opposite hasn't happened for god knows how long.
2) Middle ground liga teams are stomping europa league. But I forgot, silly me, PL teams just don't care about europa.
So, how can you prove against these 2 points that pl's average teams are better than liga's.
1) Is not really true. Chelsea, Manchester United, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham and Liverpool could all compete with Barcelona and RM right now as they have been doing for years now. The only reason why you can't remember any "middle ground" english teams knocking out top spanish teams is because the top in the Premier League stretches across both Champions League and Europa League. There are 6 top teams in England at the moment.
2) The only team that cared about the Europa League was Chelsea because Benitez had to win a trophy. Chelsea did win it. Just like they won the Champions League the year before, eliminating Barcelona in the process. For Tottenham, Champions League qualification was what really counted. And Manchester City is still somewhat of a wildcard team internationally. Sometimes they look brilliant and then the next day the play terribly.
EPT
But they also said that the average possession of the season was just 0.2% lower than last year at the same time. Yesterday they had 65% at some point so...
