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you love coding, you love starcraft, now's your chance to put your skills to work on your passion.
ggtracker helps players win more and go deeper into the games they love, with personalized stats, charts and coaching. We're applying the power of data to make Starcraft more fun and interesting for fans and players.
Our alpha site has been up for less than a month. Although we've only built a few of our ideas and bought no ads at all, we already have hundreds of users coming back to the site regularly. People seem to especially appreciate our emphasis on clear presentation and usability.
For example, here's a chart from my profile page, where you can see that I'm steadily getting better at keeping my worker production up:
Our goal is to make the ultimate tool for coaching, self-coaching and self-tracking. You shouldn't be endlessly laddering with no particular signs of improvement and no meaningful guidance. You should be able to see your skills improving, and get data-driven insight about what you need to work on to take yourself to the next level.
Here's the TL thread introducing ggtracker. (If you have general comments or ideas about ggtracker, it'd be cool to discuss them there. This is meant to be the thread about working for ggtracker.)
Who will I be working with?
+ Show Spoiler +I'm David Joerg, ggtracker's founder. ( full background on linkedin) I studied Computer Science at Harvard, and in 1999 co-founded a mobile software company called Vindigo. Vindigo’s award-winning personal navigation software was the inspiration for Foursquare. After that I did ten years of advanced work in automated trading. As it turns out, analyzing Starcraft replays has a lot in common with analyzing trading.
Skills & Requirements
+ Show Spoiler +You should: - be a talented software engineer, ready and eager to learn, ship working software and make great things happen
- take an interest in all aspects of software development: front-end, back-end, testing, specification, design, persistence, protocols, robustness, deployment, it's all interesting, isn't it?
- have a flair for rigorous analytical thinking
- have a positive, can-do attitude
You can work remotely. Or if you can come to New York City, all the better!
How to apply
- email to dsjoerg at ggtracker dot com
- upload a game to ggtracker, and include a link to it in your application
- include a list of things you've built, a brief bio, and your online profiles (Github, stackoverflow, LinkedIn, personal website, etc)
Thanks!
ps. also looking to hire a graphic designer for the logo and site style.
EDIT: un-spoilered the How to apply section so that hopefully more people pay attention to it 
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i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this.
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On April 18 2012 10:55 johnnywup wrote:
i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this.
It's really attention grabbing actually.
GLGL to ggtracker and applicants.
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On April 18 2012 10:55 johnnywup wrote:
i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this.
It's actually more of the term that a lot of modern programmers use. Hackers by definition are what most people would call programmers, hackers are not people that try to break into computer systems to steal info, those are "breakers", As such, the people that would be serious applicants for this type of job would know what "Hack" means in this case.
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On April 18 2012 10:55 johnnywup wrote:
i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this.
I disagree, I clicked on it to know why 1. TL would accept the title "Hack StarCraft" even with misconceptions of what is
"hacking" per se.
and 2. What "hacking StarCraft" entails.
Worked well.
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Hack StarCraft is a title that is going to reach the people the OP wants to reach, I think. Everyone else thinking the title is about maphack or whatever doesn't seem like a big deal.
I'd apply if I didn't already have plans for this summer. This tool sounds pretty sweet, both technically and for the community, so I hope you find who you're looking for!~
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What kind of requirements are you looking for in an applicant? I'm highly interested in applying, however I'm still a university student (junior), albeit in computer science. Just don't want to waste your time with a frivolous application!
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damn, this guy is a serious baller. wish i was a better engineer.
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Excellent site. The graphs really bring the information from the replays alive. Great presentation.
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Any room for a coffee boy? I'll work for "thanks" even.
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On April 18 2012 10:55 johnnywup wrote:
i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this.
Hacking in a programming sense is very much different from hacking in a computer security sense (programmers usually differentiate between hacking and cracking). A hacker is basically a skilled/clever programmer, and a hack is a messy but creative solution to a problem.
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United States129 Posts
Have to admit, as a fan of branding myself I find the name "GGTracker" horribly hard to come up with a creative logo for. 
Might think it over and apply at some point but more than likely it will slip my mind at some point. XD
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sounds cool but I suck at anything like this
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What language? I am à software developer in java. Is it à fulltime commitment?
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On April 18 2012 10:55 johnnywup wrote:
i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this.
Disagree... I checked the thread out and I almost never look at sponsored threads. :D
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On April 18 2012 10:51 dsjoerg wrote:
....
ps. also looking to hire a graphic designer for the logo and site style.
Get this guy: http://raihn.wordpress.com/
He's done some really great work!
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On April 18 2012 15:54 Get.Midikem wrote:
What language? I am à software developer in java. Is it à fulltime commitment?
From the website:
be familiar with or willing to learn Python/Django, Ruby on Rails, and Javascript/HTML/CSS/jQuery
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For those interested: the original term for "hacker" means someone writing code in an unstructured manner. Now, of course, it has a different meaning.
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On April 18 2012 11:46 Imbu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:55 johnnywup wrote:
i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this. It's actually more of the term that a lot of modern programmers use. Hackers by definition are what most people would call programmers, hackers are not people that try to break into computer systems to steal info, those are "breakers", As such, the people that would be serious applicants for this type of job would know what "Hack" means in this case.
You are absolutely wrong, hacking means taking something apart and/or modifying something to make it better, faster and more efficient or just make it do things hackers like. In this case this means changing the Starcraft game engine or game logic script. A classic example of hacking Starcraft would be to make a LAN version.
What ggtracker does is analyze (data mine if you will), create some sort of wrapper but never hack anything.
Of course what common culture thinks of hacking is also wrong, true hackers would never use it for bad, but for their own curiosity, to not accept things as they are and see how they work in order to improve them.
The first usage of hacker was done in the model railroad club, where they would tweak the model trains and tracks to make their train run faster. Since then the term got a massive amount of negative publicity, which led people to believe that hackers are criminals.
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I am having trouble uploading multiple replays at a time, how exactly do I do that?
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Looks like webdev, nothing interesting for me. I would be interested in realtime data charts during casting. But I understand that ggtracker business model is based on ads, so it needs to be web based.
And about "hacking" topic. It is quite clear that to hack means you attach/change/sniff/crack something else. Hacking a waterpipe means you want some juice out of it for yourself, right? GGtracker just actually analyze stuff, using thirdparty lib. That lib might have used hacking techniques to get parsing alorithms, who knows.
I would rather choose "Analyze replays" instead of "Hack StarCraft". But yeah, I woudn't click on this thread if I saw "Analyze replays"...
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On April 18 2012 20:20 Ashur wrote:
I would be interested in realtime data charts during casting.
I'd assume that kind of data sniffing would be considered breaking the TOS and could lead to a ban in bnet.
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On April 18 2012 20:25 Azhrak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 20:20 Ashur wrote:
I would be interested in realtime data charts during casting. I'd assume that kind of data sniffing would be considered breaking the TOS and could lead to a ban in bnet.
True and false. Your antivirus reads SC2 memory too. Such a tool would give that data only a meaning. I would love to see more charts of income, etc. in game. Something like GGTracker live, where they would have to use other lib than sc2reader. I mean, I do not care about games I played, I want that information live and see it during gameplay (not yours ofc, that is considered cheating).
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On April 18 2012 18:07 Azzur wrote:
For those interested: the original term for "hacker" means someone writing code in an unstructured manner. Now, of course, it has a different meaning.
So an unskilled programmer would be called a hacker, your full of it :D
But don't worry it's often misused for some unstructured or sloppy piece of code. This implies lack of understanding, which is usually not the case with hackers. A hack may just as well be the prettiest written piece of code, even better written than the original program. A hack merely implies that someone used the system (hacked into the system) for which it was not designed.
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Estonia4644 Posts
On April 18 2012 16:15 _MagnuM_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:51 dsjoerg wrote:
....
ps. also looking to hire a graphic designer for the logo and site style.
Get this guy: http://raihn.wordpress.com/He's done some really great work!
T_T
I hate when this happens
When people suggest artists suddenly become designers
The skillsets and challenges at hand are two different worlds ;_;
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Damn, if only this were 1 year from now and I had my CompSci degree already lol.
Here's to hoping that esports jobs for programmers don't go anywhere in the next few years!
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I'm getting ready to graduate school in may and want a freaking esports/sc2 related job sooooo baddd, but this is not one I can handle I have no programming skills! goodluck!
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Hmm, this seems interesting! Would be nice to hack some Starcraft. As it is ok to work from remote, I may actually apply to this. 
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On April 18 2012 23:50 TheLastTemplar wrote:
I'm getting ready to graduate school in may and want a freaking esports/sc2 related job sooooo baddd, but this is not one I can handle I have no programming skills! goodluck!
Become an entrepeneur? I mean it's not for everyone, but nowadays you can outsource almost anything besides of course your main business activity
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On April 18 2012 11:46 Imbu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:55 johnnywup wrote:
i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this. It's actually more of the term that a lot of modern programmers use. Hackers by definition are what most people would call programmers, hackers are not people that try to break into computer systems to steal info, those are "breakers", As such, the people that would be serious applicants for this type of job would know what "Hack" means in this case.
Actually, those you call "breakers" are called "crackers"
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
This looks like a pretty cool gig. I'm still in school but will point a couple of my software engineer friends towards this.
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Thanks everyone for the good wishes!
Tarrius, our requirements are spelled out in the "Skills & Requirements" section I'll add that education is good, but the more critical thing is a track record of completing large projects independently that have been used and enjoyed by real live users.
Get.Midikem, we're in python, ruby and Javascript currently, although I'm open to shifting from RoR to Java/Play.
The plan is to hire someone for a full-time position, although in exceptional cases I'd consider something like half-time.
Regarding "Hack Starcraft"… while you won't be hacking on the Starcraft application itself, you'll be getting very deep into the nitty-gritty of how Starcraft really works.
Thanks guys, good questions and I appreciate all the interest!
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Is this a properly salaried or for-equity position?
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Yeah, like would someone get payed for doing this full-time?? Otherwise, there won't be many, if any, people qualified that can't get a well paying job elsewhere and would honestly be into doing this.
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I use this all the time. I love it! I highly recomend it to people trying to get better!
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Yep, this is a full-time paid position
EDIT: full-time!
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There's been a little downtime today, apologies. Fixed the issue and all systems are go.
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Would there be any market to have people who are only really fluent in Java apply? I graduate in 2 months, and would like to know if this is a full-time 5 days a week job or is it something you can during the weekend or evenings?
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Everyone who has any real grasp of what "hacker" or "hacking" means has had so many pointless discussions about it that they're unlikely to be willing to discuss it ever again, especially on an internet forum related to gaming, where people identify as gamers.
So, have at it!
And GL to anyone applying. Sure sounds like a good job.
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Would love to join you, but I've only been studying Software Engineering for three semesters and I don't have any experience yet at all :/
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I would love to join. However, I am not very good at sc2 (Gold League) and I haven't started university yet. I am taking computer science in uni though so its right up my alley. Plus I have no experience 
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I keep reading these "I'm just now starting to study" replies and I really, really hate reading stuff like that. Here's an important thing that you need to realize:
Studying CS will not make you a rockstar developer. It'll most likely (depends on the university, but is probably still generally true) give you a broad basic understanding of everything but not a huge amount of real applicable skills.
If you're really serious about coding in any capacity (whether it be the web, integrated systems, whatever floats your boat) the key to becoming proficient is, just like in SC2, practice. And that's where the fun begins: you don't need anything that you do not already have in order to start. You're posting on these forums on a computer and that is all you'll need.
Don't let a mostly arbitrary degree that you're chasing dictate your progress. Having the degree will certify an absolute minimum of proficiency, nothing more. No good employer will ever require you to have a degree (I'd even say a math degree is potentially worth more to a coder than a CS degree.)
Just start coding ..and never stop. Because in an ordinary human lifespan, you will never be able to learn everything there is to learn (not even about a field you might specialize in, simply because things move too fast)
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On April 19 2012 09:10 Fyrn wrote:Don't let a mostly arbitrary degree that you're chasing dictate your progress. Having the degree will certify an absolute minimum of proficiency, nothing more. No good employer will ever require you to have a degree (I'd even say a math degree is potentially worth more to a coder than a CS degree.) Just start coding ..and never stop. Because in an ordinary human lifespan, you will never be able to learn everything there is to learn (not even about a field you might specialize in, simply because things move too fast)
:D
Motivation at its highest. Thank you kind sir.
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On April 19 2012 12:06 HexSCII wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 09:10 Fyrn wrote:Don't let a mostly arbitrary degree that you're chasing dictate your progress. Having the degree will certify an absolute minimum of proficiency, nothing more. No good employer will ever require you to have a degree (I'd even say a math degree is potentially worth more to a coder than a CS degree.) Just start coding ..and never stop. Because in an ordinary human lifespan, you will never be able to learn everything there is to learn (not even about a field you might specialize in, simply because things move too fast) :D Motivation at its highest. Thank you kind sir.
So true :D If you're saying the truth, I'm pretty much f***ed D:
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On April 19 2012 09:10 Fyrn wrote:I keep reading these "I'm just now starting to study" replies and I really, really hate reading stuff like that. Here's an important thing that you need to realize: Studying CS will not make you a rockstar developer. It'll most likely (depends on the university, but is probably still generally true) give you a broad basic understanding of everything but not a huge amount of real applicable skills. If you're really serious about coding in any capacity (whether it be the web, integrated systems, whatever floats your boat) the key to becoming proficient is, just like in SC2, practice. And that's where the fun begins: you don't need anything that you do not already have in order to start. You're posting on these forums on a computer and that is all you'll need. Don't let a mostly arbitrary degree that you're chasing dictate your progress. Having the degree will certify an absolute minimum of proficiency, nothing more. No good employer will ever require you to have a degree (I'd even say a math degree is potentially worth more to a coder than a CS degree.) Just start coding ..and never stop. Because in an ordinary human lifespan, you will never be able to learn everything there is to learn (not even about a field you might specialize in, simply because things move too fast)
It is true, getting a degree is proving that you can handle the level of work and thought. If you wish to be good at something you have to love it so much that it's your number one past time activity. Sorry to say but stating "I haven't finished college or university yet so I don't know anything about it" doesn't strike me as you having much dedication or interest to do this type of work.
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Well, degrees do open doors, especially if you're after a job in a "traditional", larger, established company.
This is especially true for Zcience here - Germans _love_ degrees. In Germany, having a CS degree will pretty much guarantee you an entry level job with decent salary, so you'll have plenty of time to move up the ladder while having a secure income
And of course there are companies where you need either a MIT degree or 15+ years of proven experience to start as the janitor's assistant. Damn, I wish I had a MIT degree, or someone reputable that could attest to my genius before 2000.
It's like hitting gold, then being paid for trying to get to GM. Brought to you by Videogame Analogies - demystifying the world to nerds since 1972.
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I am astonished that you ask a link to web profile for a job.
Maybe it is common practice in the US, but I can tell that it is a really toxic one.
You can't ask everyone to be popularity bitchs to do some brillant work. Some people are more reserved by nature and want a clear separation between work and personnal life (Day[9] for instance). You have to respect that
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On April 19 2012 21:24 BXiT wrote:
I am astonished that you ask a link to web profile for a job.
Maybe it is common practice in the US, but I can tell that it is a really toxic one.
You can't ask everyone to be popularity bitchs to do some brillant work. Some people are more reserved by nature and want a clear separation between work and personnal life (Day[9] for instance). You have to respect that
Do you really think that if you have brilliant work to show, but not a github account, it will be held against you?
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wow.. I am just impressed at 2 things here..
1. This guy loves stats as much as I do.
2. He is older like me!!
Good Stuff man... I would consider changing the name from Hack to something different.
suggestions: SC2 Stats Help, SC2 Tweaks, StatCraft (my favorite!), .. etc.. has to be something better. Regardless of the original meaning of the word.. in the esports community.. the word Hack has a very negative connotation.
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On April 19 2012 22:22 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 21:51 Chop-Chopin wrote:On April 19 2012 21:24 BXiT wrote:
I am astonished that you ask a link to web profile for a job.
Maybe it is common practice in the US, but I can tell that it is a really toxic one.
You can't ask everyone to be popularity bitchs to do some brillant work. Some people are more reserved by nature and want a clear separation between work and personnal life (Day[9] for instance). You have to respect that Do you really think that if you have brilliant work to show, but not a github account, it will be held against you? I'm pretty sure links are optional, so it's not an issue anyway, but I really really doubt a person without a GH/SO account can have brilliant work to show. "Reserved by nature" is just an excuse to avoid feedback and thus polish out the flaws. Of course there are exceptions, a lot of them, very talented developers too, but then again they don't have any problems finding a job either. Also it's not about being a "populairty bitch", it's about getting your name out there, raising it's value. Employers prefer active community members, like it or not. OS projects also show that programming is a passion for you and not just a 9-5 job. Again, like it or not, it's the way it is. And it's not just US, it's the way whole IT world is. You'd know that if you'd be more open to it  tl;dr: unless you've graduated MIT at 18 or hacked google or have 200+ IQ, there is no excuse not to have GH/SO and/or being active in other ways. You're shooting yourself in the foot by avoiding that.
Well, I was disagreeing BXiT, but I guess what he was referring to was someone like you, talking about "excuses" not to have a GH/SO account. It's cool of topic-starter to be willing to look at whatever code you've shared to get an opinion of your skills, but you'll find that among the people who do participate, the most skilled people are quite likely not to be sharing much.
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i've been hiring software developers since 1997... there are many ways for a developer to demonstrate their skills. sharing a code sample (via github, email, whatever) is one way for a developer to demonstrate their skills. another way is to show off completed finished products that users are enjoying. yet another way is to do a "code test", either remotely or in house. or references from past employers. excellent grades from a top CS school is also meaningful. i've been involved in all of those methods, both as a candidate and employer.
none of the above are requirements, just different ways to show that you are good.
one of the best programmers i've ever worked with never went to college.
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This is such a cool application! If my comp sci skills were a little higher level I would apply for this in an instant. Got to grind through some more textbook quests in the MMO of life to level that shit up first.
I just went to the site in question and started uploading 2-300 games. I love the status messages! "taking a nap...", "playing diablo 3..." "making a pizza..." "maphacking..." humor! on the internet too! who would have guessed!
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Lol, this makes Starcraft II more of a job than a game.
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If I had the skills, I'd apply for sure. Sounds really cool, good luck to the applicants as well as you, David!
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Are you only looking for full time positions? I'd love to help out but I can't do it on a full time basis, only something like contractor work.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/eaceaser
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Only looking for full time, ceaser, thanks for your interest.
Hug-A-Hydralisk, I know what you mean and I've wondered the same thing.
Of course, ggtracker won't be for everyone. Like any sport, some people play casually and that's great.
But some people get a lot of enjoyment through sport by not only competing, but by striving to improve. And for those people, I hope they'll enjoy tools that let them see their progress, rather than just laddering endlessly and wondering if anything is really changing. Does that make a job? I'd say not really, just because it's organized and you can see your progress doesn't make it a job. What makes something a job and a grind is the feeling that you have to do it whether you want to or not, and that it's not very fulfilling... if anyone here feels that way about Starcraft, I say go try some other pursuit for a while, regain your perspective, and let the things you love about SC2 pull you back in.
Just my 2 cents of course...
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Oh man this sounds awesome. I've been thinking about something like this as well. Unfortunately, I have scholarship restrictions so I can't apply for full time T.T. Good luck! Can't wait to see what comes out of it!
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On April 18 2012 10:55 johnnywup wrote:
i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this.
Actually "Hackers" are people who learn how to go in and modify systems (Students in a Computer Programming class after learning code, database, etc. May be considered Hackers by the time they graduate out of the class). "Crackers" are people who go in and modify systems with the intention to do damage to someones system.
So Hack can be considered an appropriate term for the title.
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how quickly are you looking to hire?
I believe i can show you something that will pique your interest, but I need a few more days before it's ready for public alpha
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On April 20 2012 21:40 SolidTBo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 10:55 johnnywup wrote:
i think "hack starcraft" is a bad title for this. Actually "Hackers" are people who learn how to go in and modify systems (Students in a Computer Programming class after learning code, database, etc. May be considered Hackers by the time they graduate out of the class). "Crackers" are people who go in and modify systems with the intention to do damage to someones system. So Hack can be considered an appropriate term for the title.
Unfortunately, the term was hijacked by the mundane media and it's meaning in contemporary English is the same as 'crack'.
On topic, I'm really regretting that I haven't gotten around to developing a coding portfolio for myself. Something to do with a videogame by some company called "Blizzard", if I recall correctly.
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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On April 19 2012 09:10 Fyrn wrote:I keep reading these "I'm just now starting to study" replies and I really, really hate reading stuff like that. Here's an important thing that you need to realize: Studying CS will not make you a rockstar developer. It'll most likely (depends on the university, but is probably still generally true) give you a broad basic understanding of everything but not a huge amount of real applicable skills. If you're really serious about coding in any capacity (whether it be the web, integrated systems, whatever floats your boat) the key to becoming proficient is, just like in SC2, practice. And that's where the fun begins: you don't need anything that you do not already have in order to start. You're posting on these forums on a computer and that is all you'll need. Don't let a mostly arbitrary degree that you're chasing dictate your progress. Having the degree will certify an absolute minimum of proficiency, nothing more. No good employer will ever require you to have a degree (I'd even say a math degree is potentially worth more to a coder than a CS degree.) Just start coding ..and never stop. Because in an ordinary human lifespan, you will never be able to learn everything there is to learn (not even about a field you might specialize in, simply because things move too fast)
What you will get out of a (good) CS program is how to best go about writing code. Things like version control discipline and thorough unit testing/error handling. I highly recommend this article from 1996 about the development practices that went into writing software for the space shuttle: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html
Now, obviously what they did is overkill if you're not writing control code for a spacecraft, but the lesson to take away from it is to think first, plan, and then write code. If you just sit down and start coding away, you'll inevitably be left with a buggy mess that you will spend twice as long fixing when it bites you in the ass. Take a deep breath and do it right the first time. Make that your normal way of doing things, and THEN never stop coding.
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On April 23 2012 08:44 Badinoff wrote:
think first, plan, and then write code.
This is correct, once you know what you're doing. If you're learning (and sometimes even if you're beyond the learning), just coding away is the way to go. And web development is the best way to go while learning because you see results extremely fast (you can just refresh the browser after every freaking line you wrote, see the endresult right away!)
The single best way to get typical patterns and best practices into your head or learn about common mistakes is to actually do it and then realize there's a better way to do it. For example: I found out that the singleton pattern is an actual thing years after I first implemented it. Same with MVC and other practices (that is years before Yahoo came along, heheh. Nowadays it obviously shouldn't take years to realize something like this ;p)
Sure, I could've read about it, studying the subject ..but if you rarely (or never, in my case) do that, you develop an understanding for code far beyond that of anyone who might've read every book on a language until you get to a point where the language doesn't even matter anymore because it's just minor syntax difference for you (that, however, doesn't work when doing only web development. What's a type? I don't know!)
Oh damn, SC2 analogy time: it's like learning about every build there is and eventually training to do them all. Then still getting destroyed because something unexpected happened and simply training these builds didn't prepare you how to react properly. I know some pretty bright coders that struggle a lot with new concepts or languages simply because they're so set in the ways that some book or lecture taught them, they rarely experiment and can't cope when they have to think "outside the box" (yea, I hate that term too, but it applies..) - however, that makes the difference between "junior" and "senior" titles in positions (for me, at least. I know there's terrible "seniors" too.)
However, we both agree on the end result: never stop coding!
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Pls peops, if you have no clue what the title means and which persons are adressd with it stop bitching about it...
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What you will get out of a (good) CS program is how to best go about writing code.
I wish this were true. Some CS programs, like the one I took at Harvard, were all about computational complexity, the semantics of different programming languages, a bit about the internals of hardware and the OS, some graph theory and proving things about languages and turing machine, etc. Nothing really about software engineering. They saw that as something you'd learn out in the real world, not something of any academic importance and therefore not taught.
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On April 25 2012 01:36 dsjoerg wrote:Show nested quote +What you will get out of a (good) CS program is how to best go about writing code. I wish this were true. Some CS programs, like the one I took at Harvard, were all about computational complexity, the semantics of different programming languages, a bit about the internals of hardware and the OS, some graph theory and proving things about languages and turing machine, etc. Nothing really about software engineering. They saw that as something you'd learn out in the real world, not something of any academic importance and therefore not taught.
Hehe, sounds about right. Here in Berlin, at the Technical University (the better of the three), you'll have Java, Haskell, hardware architecture, midlevel math and random nonsense like that. Some of these programs haven't been revised for decades and most are just too general. All of them require you to specialize yourself and be passionate about it. I frankly have no idea why BS in CS is even on job postings at all most of the time.. the only person it serves is the non-tech HR person that sifts through them and proceeds to discard the best applications.
(This only applies to large "traditional" companies, where you'll eventually meet an Oracle rep with a really large grin on his face and 99.8% of the employees really have no idea wtf you're doing. The Office style.)
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On April 25 2012 01:36 dsjoerg wrote:Show nested quote +What you will get out of a (good) CS program is how to best go about writing code. I wish this were true. Some CS programs, like the one I took at Harvard, were all about computational complexity, the semantics of different programming languages, a bit about the internals of hardware and the OS, some graph theory and proving things about languages and turing machine, etc. Nothing really about software engineering. They saw that as something you'd learn out in the real world, not something of any academic importance and therefore not taught.
The computer science program at RPI was similar with little to no emphasis on software engineering. There is one tack on course at the end of your studies that introduces the concepts of software engineering and maintainability, but one course isn't really sufficient. Annectdotally, I've found that often times professors and especially graduate TAs write code that can be virtually impossible to understand. It may be that their own lack of experience developing/maintaining software is another factor that keeps them from being able to bring that material into the classrom.
On the other hand, I've seen many colleges now have "Software Engineering" as a separate disipline with its own faculty and degree requirements. Friends in these programs appear to learn much more about building software and much less about OS internals and Prolog.
I am unsure that one approach actually creates better developers than the other though. Just a different kind.
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I really want to apply for this position, but I don't think I have the time. :-( Also, I'm an embedded engineer, so webdev would be a somewhat new skill for me. I hope you find someone; I really like the site. If you're still looking, let us know. The original advert was 2 months ago.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vOKdR.jpg?1)
