EPT
Every thread about female gamers(or exclusive competitions for females) gets the discussion going and with it some really nasty comments. Lets all just be happy for this as it is a step towards good! NESL Iron Lady Launches! - Page 6
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This is not a discussion topic on whether you think women should run separate tournaments. This is a thread for the NESL Iron Lady events. If you would like to sign up or wish them well or offer aid and support, this is the place. If you want to complain about the work they've put in or their message, don't. This is your warning. - Jibba 16:18PM EST / 05:18 KST | ||
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TOCHMY
Sweden1692 Posts
Every thread about female gamers(or exclusive competitions for females) gets the discussion going and with it some really nasty comments. Lets all just be happy for this as it is a step towards good! | ||
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br0fivE
Canada349 Posts
cause we all know how popular WNBA is.... Goodluck with the league! Show off some mad skillz! | ||
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CurLy[]
United States759 Posts
How do we get more females to game? Show them that other females are doing it too. How do we show them? With an awesome female league!! Good luck ladies  | ||
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CaptainCrush
United States785 Posts
On June 11 2011 02:09 br0fivE wrote: Really wish ESPORTS wasnt going in the direction of every other Official sport. (M/F Only) cause we all know how popular WNBA is.... Goodluck with the league! Show off some mad skillz! Well most of the women in the WNBA are pretty unattractive to be honest... plus the game moves at a much slower pace than mens Bball which is why most fans watch the mens league. However, SC2 will run at the same pace regardless of whether a male or a female is at the keyboard. There may be more mistakes depending on who is playing, but mistakes can make for entertaining games too. And I think that these girls stand a pretty good chance of being more attractive than WNBA players! If there is a girl out there who is even semi-attractive and is better than me (not hard, I'm gold league :/ ) then I'd be interested in watching! | ||
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
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Perseverance
Japan2800 Posts
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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HoldenR
Netherlands256 Posts
Regardless of your actual reason having effect(have you actually researched whether more girls become interested in SC2 due to there being female only leagues?), it's about the image this represent. This can be interpreted in the following ways: 1. Females want special treatment. This is (hopefully!) not the case, but you can't blame anyone for thinking it. After all, the trend of "gamer girrrrls" is huge. I'm not saying it applies to you, but it's an image you create of yourself for a lot of people. 2. Females cannot compete with men. In sports that require physical activity, this exists because women do not have the same muscle buildup as men, the same length, the same strength, etc. That's fair. However, clicking a mouse/keyboard has nothing to do with your gender. Neither does your ability to play a video game. Again, it might not be what your goal is, but it's the image you're giving off to the rest of SC2. 3. It's okay to be sexist against the majority. Seriously, imagine if an event came out that said "no women allowed". Not only would there be a huge uproar, it would not get any publicity on TL(and for good goddamn reason), and it would likely fall apart before it even started. Just because you guys are a minority - there's no denying that - doesn't make this okay. I tried to be as polite as possible in saying what I, and many others, take from this. I do not care what gender anyone is - male or female - it's about who they are as a person. I'd just as soon be a fan of WhiteRa if he was a woman - because WhiteRa is a terrific person with an awesome personality, not a terrific man or guy. Maybe it is harder for girls online than it is for guys, but you will only make it worse by segregating yourselves. This is not good for e-sports, but what's worse, it's not good for women who play video games. You're only making yourselves a clearer target for harassment. (I didn't see any mod edits stating we weren't allowed to talk about it, and I realize many people have expressed their viewpoints against it, but it needs to get through to the people organizing this that they are harming the interests of girls who play video games.) | ||
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farvacola
United States18835 Posts
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On June 11 2011 03:20 HoldenR wrote: Not thought through at all. Regardless of your actual reason having effect(have you actually researched whether more girls become interested in SC2 due to there being female only leagues?), it's about the image this represent. This can be interpreted in the following ways: No. No, it can't. Let me stop you right there.You are wrong, the rest of your post is a travesty, and if you don't understand why, go back and read my previous post. I mean, "special treatment?" How can this possibly be interpreted as special treatment? You are not invited. That's it. It is not for you. That is not special treatment. They're not asking for an extra elimination bracket in tournaments with male gamers, they're not asking for an extra worker at the start of the game against non-male players, they're not asking for larger prize pools for female tournament winners - you're simply not invited. That has absolutely nothing to do with 'special treatment' in any intelligible definition of the word. Just because men are not dominating an event or a venue does not equate to "reverse sexism." There are one, maybe two female-only tournaments out there, and more fucking tournaments than you can shake a stick at for male gamers. The idea that you equate that with discrimination is laughable, and shows that you don't understand the meaning of the word and that you didn't really think about what constitutes discrimination before writing your post. And I think they can worry about their image on their own - they don't need you to give them advice in that regard. | ||
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HoldenR
Netherlands256 Posts
On June 11 2011 03:34 PanzerKing wrote: No. No, it can't. Let me stop you right there.You are wrong, the rest of your post is a travesty, and if you don't understand why, go back and read my previous post. I mean, "special treatment?" How can this possibly be interpreted as special treatment? You are not invited. That's it. It is not for you. That is not special treatment. They're not asking for an extra elimination bracket in tournaments with male gamers, they're not asking for an extra worker at the start of the game against non-male players, they're not asking for larger prize pools for female tournament winners - you're simply not invited. That has absolutely nothing to do with 'special treatment' in any intelligible definition of the word. Just because men are not dominating an event or a venue does not equate to "reverse sexism." There are one, maybe two female-only tournaments out there, and more fucking tournaments than you can shake a stick at for male gamers. The idea that you equate that with discrimination is laughable, and shows that you don't understand the meaning of the word and that you didn't really think about what constitutes discrimination before writing your post. And I think they can worry about their image on their own - they don't need you to give them advice in that regard. There are exactly zero tournaments for male gamers. There are tournaments for gamers, and then we have here, tournaments for FEMALE gamers. It is not the fault of people who participate in tournaments that women don't enter them - they are free to. If you can't see how this is special treatment(hint: it's basically telling women it's okay to be worse, they'll still "compete with male superstars" without having the same quality), you're as blind as a bat. I can sympathize with women that they get singled out online in video games, I really can, but with these kind of tournaments and ideals, they are only promoting the idea that they're different. Which is really, really bad. I have nothing further to say to someone foaming at the mouth with rage. | ||
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farvacola
United States18835 Posts
On June 11 2011 03:34 PanzerKing wrote: No. No, it can't. Let me stop you right there.You are wrong, the rest of your post is a travesty, and if you don't understand why, go back and read my previous post. I mean, "special treatment?" How can this possibly be interpreted as special treatment? You are not invited. That's it. It is not for you. That is not special treatment. They're not asking for an extra elimination bracket in tournaments with male gamers, they're not asking for an extra worker at the start of the game against non-male players, they're not asking for larger prize pools for female tournament winners - you're simply not invited. That has absolutely nothing to do with 'special treatment' in any intelligible definition of the word. Just because men are not dominating an event or a venue does not equate to "reverse sexism." There are one, maybe two female-only tournaments out there, and more fucking tournaments than you can shake a stick at for male gamers. The idea that you equate that with discrimination is laughable, and shows that you don't understand the meaning of the word and that you didn't really think about what constitutes discrimination before writing your post. And I think they can worry about their image on their own - they don't need you to give them advice in that regard. It's not about "special treatment" in the discriminatory sense, but rather that a game like Sc2 relies on an interplay between those who are good and those who are bad, and the tendencies of players considered "good" amount to what we call the "metagame". Pitting females against females, which in most cases will amount to less than exemplary players playing against less than exemplary players, will end up with a female-specific metagame that is simply not going to size up. Getting your ass kicked by a better player is essential in terms of advancing in Sc2, and creating an isolated tournament thats based on anything other than skill will only cheat its constituent players from adavancing as fast as everyone else | ||
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Glurkenspurk
United States1915 Posts
On June 11 2011 03:34 PanzerKing wrote: No. No, it can't. Let me stop you right there.You are wrong, the rest of your post is a travesty, and if you don't understand why, go back and read my previous post. I mean, "special treatment?" How can this possibly be interpreted as special treatment? You are not invited. That's it. It is not for you. That is not special treatment. They're not asking for an extra elimination bracket in tournaments with male gamers, they're not asking for an extra worker at the start of the game against non-male players, they're not asking for larger prize pools for female tournament winners - you're simply not invited. That has absolutely nothing to do with 'special treatment' in any intelligible definition of the word. Just because men are not dominating an event or a venue does not equate to "reverse sexism." There are one, maybe two female-only tournaments out there, and more fucking tournaments than you can shake a stick at for male gamers. The idea that you equate that with discrimination is laughable, and shows that you don't understand the meaning of the word and that you didn't really think about what constitutes discrimination before writing your post. And I think they can worry about their image on their own - they don't need you to give them advice in that regard. There aren't any "tournaments for male gamers" Anyone can play in any tournament. Unless it's invite only or something. Girls don't need their own tournament, it's silly and not logical. Just because it so happens that at the moment there are more men than women that are winning tournaments does not mean we need to make special tournaments just for them to feel better and make them seem like they have competition too. If you want to be a competitive tournament player you need to put in the time and effort in order to do so. | ||
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PaPoolee
Netherlands660 Posts
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On June 11 2011 03:41 HoldenR wrote: There are exactly zero tournaments for male gamers. There are tournaments for gamers, and then we have here, tournaments for FEMALE gamers. It is not the fault of people who participate in tournaments that women don't enter them - they are free to. If you can't see how this is special treatment(hint: it's basically telling women it's okay to be worse, they'll still "compete with male superstars" without having the same quality), you're as blind as a bat. I can sympathize with women that they get singled out online in video games, I really can, but with these kind of tournaments and ideals, they are only promoting the idea that they're different. Which is really, really bad. I have nothing further to say to someone foaming at the mouth with rage. If you REALLY think that there are no differences between men and women, then I don't know what I could possibly say to you that would explain how wrong you are. Maybe you should go read my prior post like I said, and think before you type next time. | ||
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Glurkenspurk
United States1915 Posts
On June 11 2011 03:46 PanzerKing wrote: You are not invited to their fucking tournament. You have nothing to say about whether that is acceptable or not - you shouldn't even be posting in this thread. You're just another self-important angry white guy who sees discrimination against him around every corner, when it's just a figment of your imagination. And if you REALLY think there aren't differences between men and women, then I don't know what I could possibly say to you that would explain how wrong you are. Maybe you should go read my prior post like I said, and think before you type next time. There are zero differences between men and women when it comes to poking keys and moving the mouse. | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
But this will be fun though | ||
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pHaRSiDE
United States752 Posts
On June 11 2011 03:41 HoldenR wrote: There are exactly zero tournaments for male gamers. There are tournaments for gamers, and then we have here, tournaments for FEMALE gamers. It is not the fault of people who participate in tournaments that women don't enter them - they are free to. If you can't see how this is special treatment(hint: it's basically telling women it's okay to be worse, they'll still "compete with male superstars" without having the same quality), you're as blind as a bat. I can sympathize with women that they get singled out online in video games, I really can, but with these kind of tournaments and ideals, they are only promoting the idea that they're different. Which is really, really bad. I have nothing further to say to someone foaming at the mouth with rage. When are you and other haters going to learn to actually read and understand what the reason is behind this league. I'm not even going to repeat it again, I am just going to keep on reporting post that keep on trying to create the false division in the sc2 of girls and guys. The females do compete in those tournaments, but guess how many of them you hear about? None. Like I already said 1000000 times, its about shining a spot light on different people in the scene rather than the same people always winning. It has nothing to do with skill but its the same principle of why people host bronze cups, or platinum cups etc. Those people never beat grandmasters, so by your thinking, they never deserve any spot light ever. This is a broken opinion you have, and if you want to have it, then have it. But don't come to our thread trying to to make it seem like we are horrible people for attempting to bring more diversity to the scene. You are seriously messed up...Get off your high horse and you might have a better outlook on things like this. It amazes me how many dudes think there is a lack of Men's rights in SC2 gaming.. When you learn to read and understand what has been written time and time again in this thread by me and others, you might change your thoughts. | ||
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HoldenR
Netherlands256 Posts
On June 11 2011 03:46 PanzerKing wrote: If you REALLY think that there are no differences between men and women, then I don't know what I could possibly say to you that would explain how wrong you are. Maybe you should go read my prior post like I said, and think before you type next time. There is no need to read anything by you. I could deconstruct your entire post, and all it would do is make you scream and shout louder without reading what I said - like you did the first time, and did just now. Good job being racist about it too, my lord. My post was aimed at the people organizing this tournament - they can take from it what they will. If they want to ignore entirely like you, they are free too. That's not sad for me, that's sad for women who play video games. This is a step in the wrong direction to them seeing equal treatment in video games, and they're choosing to take it themselves. And please stop bringing up as if I want to participate in this, or any, tournament. I find SC2 extremely enjoyable to watch, but I'm stuck between diamond and platinum and have no interest in becoming better. This has nothing to do with me not being invited. Please, either don't reply again, or first take a long break to calm down. | ||
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On June 11 2011 03:47 Odal wrote: There are zero differences between men and women when it comes to poking keys and moving the mouse. Nobody is talking about biological differences in play skill. Read my previous post - I'm not going to copy-paste it for you. | ||
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