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On August 07 2015 01:36 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 01:34 Alaric wrote:
What do you mean by "remaking the best WoW"? Can't watch the stream atm (and never played WoW). A lot of people herald TBC as the best expansion. It had some good stuff and bad stuff like all of them though. Wrath did a lot right to build on it but then did a lot wrong to go backwards. Combining those 2 expansions may make something really good though
Recently playing through Outland again reminded me why I loved BC so much.
+ Show Spoiler +Yes, I fell off the wagon and have been playing a bit. No words can convey the shame I feel. I blame my friend.
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The feral form troll slide was classic.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 07 2015 01:36 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 01:34 Alaric wrote:
What do you mean by "remaking the best WoW"? Can't watch the stream atm (and never played WoW). A lot of people herald TBC as the best expansion. It had some good stuff and bad stuff like all of them though. Wrath did a lot right to build on it but then did a lot wrong to go backwards. Combining those 2 expansions may make something really good though
As a not-so-serious WoW player, I liked how TBC was designed better in a lot of ways, but WotLK made a lot of those things more accessible to me.
Basically going TBC->WotLK felt to me analogous to Magic->Hearthstone, BW->SC2, or Dota->LoL.
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On August 07 2015 02:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 01:36 Numy wrote:On August 07 2015 01:34 Alaric wrote:
What do you mean by "remaking the best WoW"? Can't watch the stream atm (and never played WoW). A lot of people herald TBC as the best expansion. It had some good stuff and bad stuff like all of them though. Wrath did a lot right to build on it but then did a lot wrong to go backwards. Combining those 2 expansions may make something really good though As a not-so-serious WoW player, I liked how TBC was designed better in a lot of ways, but WotLK made a lot of those things more accessible to me. Basically going TBC->WotLK felt to me analogous to Magic->Hearthstone, BW->SC2, or Dota->LoL.
Flying mounts are cancer.
The latest expansion is probably the best one if you ignore raiding and daily quests. Did not get into Arena in WoD much but its basically improved every expansion regardless of people liking to QQ about dumb shit.
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On August 07 2015 02:19 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 02:08 TheYango wrote:On August 07 2015 01:36 Numy wrote:On August 07 2015 01:34 Alaric wrote:
What do you mean by "remaking the best WoW"? Can't watch the stream atm (and never played WoW). A lot of people herald TBC as the best expansion. It had some good stuff and bad stuff like all of them though. Wrath did a lot right to build on it but then did a lot wrong to go backwards. Combining those 2 expansions may make something really good though As a not-so-serious WoW player, I liked how TBC was designed better in a lot of ways, but WotLK made a lot of those things more accessible to me. Basically going TBC->WotLK felt to me analogous to Magic->Hearthstone, BW->SC2, or Dota->LoL. Flying mounts are cancer. The latest expansion is probably the best one if you ignore raiding and daily quests. Did not get into Arena in WoD much but its basically improved every expansion regardless of people liking to QQ about dumb shit.
Uhhh flying mounts are amazing.
As much as I dislike the reduction of the general server/"MM" community, having group finder is fucking amazing.
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United States47024 Posts
How is competitive PvP in WoD?
On August 07 2015 02:21 jcarlsoniv wrote:
As much as I dislike the reduction of the general server/"MM" community, having group finder is fucking amazing.
I liked group finder for 5-mans, but raid finder is kind of where I drew the line.
5-mans are short enough and frequent enough that group finder takes a lot of the hassle out of grinding them out, which is a good thing. But the structure of raiding seems made to promote the more tightly-knit interactions of a closer group. I can understand wanting to make the experience more accessible to people, but at the same time, it doesn't quite feel right to me.
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Haven't touched raid finder yet, only level 75 right now
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On August 07 2015 02:21 TheYango wrote:How is competitive PvP in WoD? Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 02:21 jcarlsoniv wrote:
As much as I dislike the reduction of the general server/"MM" community, having group finder is fucking amazing. I liked group finder for 5-mans, but raid finder is kind of where I drew the line.
It's not.
You get gear, You que, and then you smash at each other till something dies or the dampening gets too big for healers to keep up.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 07 2015 02:23 Cixah wrote:
It's not.
You get gear, You que, and then you smash at each other till something dies or the dampening gets too big for healers to keep up.
Ok, so I was right in believing that TBC was still the pinnacle of PvP being remotely competitive in any way whatsoever.
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Battlegrounds are fun, I've never felt like "competitive" Arenas were anything too fun.
The only problem I have with Raid Finder is that it feels like killing bosses is nothing from a lore perspective. There's no like "We killed Illidan!" or "We killed Arthas!", there's "We're on Mythic now", which isn't as fun. I like getting casual players into Raids without needing a Guild, but it takes away from the epic scale of the World itself.
Emerald Dream Hype tho
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United States47024 Posts
I mean, I always felt the whole purpose of raiding was to incentivize the higher level of social gameplay that's really necessary to enjoy WoW at the endgame (I'm sort of channeling the Extra Credits sub-series on this lol). Raid finder just makes it so that a player doesn't have to progress past the "solo queue player" level of social gameplay to experience all the content, which just feels wrong to me for an MMORPG.
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lol what the fuck?
You're a paladin! And you're a Paladin!
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TI showing how good soundproof booths are : )
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On August 07 2015 02:32 TheYango wrote:
I mean, I always felt the whole purpose of raiding was to incentivize the higher level of social gameplay that's really necessary to enjoy WoW at the endgame (I'm sort of channeling the Extra Credits sub-series on this lol). Raid finder just makes it so that a player doesn't have to progress past the "solo queue player" level of social gameplay to experience all the content, which just feels wrong to me for an MMORPG.
I think the option should be there, though. Not everyone who plays an MMO is going to become socially involved, at least not quickly. If you don't have friends coming in, it can be daunting to find people to play with, even before LFG and LFR.
I think having the ability to see the content without needing a guild is good. Pugging back in the day was much of the same, though occasionally you might meet a friend that you would continue with afterwards. As long as it doesn't take away from the people who actually put the time in to see the content the "normal/correct" way.
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United States47024 Posts
IDK, maybe it's just me, but I just felt like there's nothing wrong with social gameplay being a hard requirement for high level play in an MMO. That's what the fundamental concept of the game is built on.
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On August 07 2015 02:32 TheYango wrote:
I mean, I always felt the whole purpose of raiding was to incentivize the higher level of social gameplay that's really necessary to enjoy WoW at the endgame (I'm sort of channeling the Extra Credits sub-series on this lol). Raid finder just makes it so that a player doesn't have to progress past the "solo queue player" level of social gameplay to experience all the content, which just feels wrong to me for an MMORPG.
This is basically the crux of my "part of the reason WoW is declining is the destruction of its social fabric/incentives" argument.
Every gameplay element which forced players together is gone. By and large those gameplay elements sucked, were tedious, etc., but the social incentives they provided haven't been replaced. As such unless you're one of the tiny minority who want a challenge more difficult than LFR there's zero reason to give a crap about anyone else.
WoW has been streamlined to such a degree that it's essentially single player for most people, and as a single player game WoW isn't all that interesting.
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On August 07 2015 02:34 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 02:32 TheYango wrote:
I mean, I always felt the whole purpose of raiding was to incentivize the higher level of social gameplay that's really necessary to enjoy WoW at the endgame (I'm sort of channeling the Extra Credits sub-series on this lol). Raid finder just makes it so that a player doesn't have to progress past the "solo queue player" level of social gameplay to experience all the content, which just feels wrong to me for an MMORPG. I think the option should be there, though. Not everyone who plays an MMO is going to become socially involved, at least not quickly. If you don't have friends coming in, it can be daunting to find people to play with, even before LFG and LFR. I think having the ability to see the content without needing a guild is good. Pugging back in the day was much of the same, though occasionally you might meet a friend that you would continue with afterwards. As long as it doesn't take away from the people who actually put the time in to see the content the "normal/correct" way.
I kind of agree with Yango. The people who get together frequently, learn coordination with each other, and succeed in raids should be the ones who get the furthest in the content and get rewarded accordingly. That may still be the case, I haven't raided in 5+ years, but it sounds like a lot of that content has opened up to the casual player. Which, now that I am on that side of the fence, I can understand why they did it and the appeal - I am looking forward to experiencing end game stuff without being super invested in the game.
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You guys are making me nostalgic for WoW. I think you make great points on the social "progression" aspect.
Some of it has to be when things are new and you're young and innocent and it's just awesome. Hard to recreate that.
The most fun I had playing arena was when they opened up the test realm for it, and my brothers and I queued for 5s with all corruption warlocks and all of our names were combinations of 1 and I. Or we would play last man standing and just run around and see who could survive the longest while quoting star wars lines in all chat.
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On August 07 2015 02:36 TheYango wrote:
IDK, maybe it's just me, but I just felt like there's nothing wrong with social gameplay being a hard requirement for high level play in an MMO. That's what the fundamental concept of the game is built on.
I somewhat agree, but at the same time, considering that MMOs aren't the powerhouse they were before the MOBA boom, they want to include as many people as possible. Games today are built on "jump in, jump out, play whenever", and for some people, they just don't have time to be social when they game. If you want those people to play (and sub), you need to accommodate them at least a little bit.
I prefer to play with friends, to be clear. I only resubbed when I knew my IRL buddies were playing again, and fell out when they just started raiding and I had no time to go with them.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/kJC3Igd)
