EPTOff-Topic General Discussion - Page 4683
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:22 Slayer91 wrote: did people really classify star wars as sci fi though I think if you asked people what they considered Star Wars, sci-fi will be the most common answer you get. | ||
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
On April 02 2015 02:55 Frudgey wrote: Well first of all we can have different perspectives of what "a sudden, complete or marked change in something" entails. It might just be the case that I think that a "revolution" in gaming pertains to something "bigger" for lack of a better term. you kind of contradicted yourself here. The modders did the work in war3 but meanwhile dune 2 is revolutionary? we know dune 2 was a shit game, but it paved the way for BW so either you give blizzard credit for BW or you don't give the dota 2 modders credit obviously dota was created by modders but facilitated by battle.net and the blizzard map moding which was unreal On April 02 2015 04:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I think if you asked people what they considered Star Wars, sci-fi will be the most common answer you get. star wars if fucking star wars wtf its sort of a league of its own | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
I'd have said it's scifi fantasy. You got spaceships and you got magic. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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SHr3DD3r
Pakistan2137 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:27 Scip wrote: I mean you can answer to questions with tautologies every time teut but I think you'll find people will get incredibly fucking annoyed with you really quickly they do that anyway you are just being salty toward me because you want to watch naruto i can sense your nikshimi from a mile away | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:29 SHr3DD3r wrote: meh not a fan. I'm not kidding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:17 red_ wrote: I narrowed down your post to this part, to show how you're minimizing WoW's impact on all of gaming. It'd be like saying that CoD:Modern Warfare wasn't revolutionary because it was 'just a new take on FPS,' when it completely changed the face of console gaming, with a little handoff from the Halo games that came before it(like WoW from EQ). Something doesn't have to be 100% original to be revolutionary(thus my 2001:A Space Odyssey analogy with regards to Star Wars visual effects). While I agree with most of your points, you don't really say what impact WoW had on all of gaming. Mind elaborating how the landscape of gaming was different post wow compared to pre wow? On April 02 2015 04:32 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I mean ultimately trying to draw clear genre and subgenre divisions is an exercise in futility. But if you're just tracing influence then Star Wars is definitely does't derive from what is broadly considered science fiction, and relies more on a mishmash of fantasy/western/adventure stories that are all broadly part of the same monomyth. There's obviously huge overlap and crossover and definitions change over time, but Star Wars isn't really what most critics would consider "sci fi" in the critical sense of the word. I think the problem is the general use of the term "sci fi" has changed from what it traditionally meant. Now days people just use it for basically anything that's "future tech" regardless of if it actually fits into the mold of what "sci fi" is. They use sci fi for things that are really just fantasy set with "future tech". | ||
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Sunaj
Canada2041 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:24 Frudgey wrote: Until Cheep made his post, I would have called Star Wars a science fiction. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
The whole point of genre labels is to give a broad framework for identifying and analyzing common tropes/plots/elements/etc. anyways, as long as everyone involved is clear on what general definitions are being employed any label is as good as any other really. | ||
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:25 Slayer91 wrote: you kind of contradicted yourself here. The modders did the work in war3 but meanwhile dune 2 is revolutionary? we know dune 2 was a shit game, but it paved the way for BW so either you give blizzard credit for BW or you don't give the dota 2 modders credit obviously dota was created by modders but facilitated by battle.net and the blizzard map moding which was unreal I see your point. Basically what I said is that "Oh Blizzard didn't create MOBAs they only gave the community the tools to do so", but then I go around and say "Oh Dune 2 was revolutionary" when you are saying that basically the same thing happened. I think what I wanted to get across was that when Dune 2 came out, it was essentially the first RTS. You have a team of people who created a game, which was the first RTS. Yes they paved the way for others, and in a sense they only gave others the tools to do so, while they didn't contribute anything themselves. However, I believe that they did contribute something to the RTS - namely, they created the first one! Where for Warcraft 3, Warcraft 3 was not a MOBA. Instead, people outside of the Warcraft 3 production team used their map editor to create the first MOBA. Granted, it wouldn't have been possible to for them to do so if Blizzard never made the map editor. In a way, Blizzard did help create the first MOBA. However, I maintain that they only gave the tools - the community created the first MOBA. Dune 2 didn't just give the tools - I also think that they created the first RTS. And at the time no one had seen anything like it! But compared to today's standards, yeah Dune 2 didn't age well! I don't know if my distinction makes sense, or even if I made my point clear. And I concede that my point is possibly contradictory, as I don't know if that distinction that I attempted to make is even significant enough. Hope I cleared up the point that I was trying to make though. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:40 Frudgey wrote: I see your point. Basically what I said is that "Oh Blizzard didn't create MOBAs they only gave the community the tools to do so", but then I go around and say "Oh Dune 2 was revolutionary" when you are saying that basically the same thing happened. I think what I wanted to get across was that when Dune 2 came out, it was essentially the first RTS. You have a team of people who created a game, which was the first RTS. Yes they paved the way for others, and in a sense they only gave others the tools to do so, while they didn't contribute anything themselves. However, I believe that they did contribute something to the RTS - namely, they created the first one! Where for Warcraft 3, Warcraft 3 was not a MOBA. Instead, people outside of the Warcraft 3 production team used their map editor to create the first MOBA. Granted, it wouldn't have been possible to for them to do so if Blizzard never made the map editor. In a way, Blizzard did help create the first MOBA. However, I maintain that they only gave the tools - the community created the first MOBA. Dune 2 didn't just give the tools - I also think that they created the first RTS. And at the time no one had seen anything like it! But compared to today's standards, yeah Dune 2 didn't age well! I don't know if my distinction makes sense, or even if I made my point clear. And I concede that my point is possibly contradictory, as I don't know if that distinction that I attempted to make is even significant enough. Hope I cleared up the point that I was trying to make though. I think the distinction makes perfect sense. Though if we're nitpicking, Aeon of Strife, a SC/SCBW mod, was the first popular MOBA/ARTS as we know it today and preceded DotA. There were a bunch of similar games floating around BNet back then as well, though AoS is generally credited as the first MOBA since it was the first one to get major traction. On April 02 2015 04:46 Numy wrote: Kickstarter would be a pretty recent thing that "revolutionized" gaming. That makes sense. My problem is that when you call these shows sci-fi it isn't really that descriptive since the only thing they borrow from sci-fi is the future/spacey stuff where as they borrow heavily from fantasy so it makes more sense to call them fantasy genre or some kind of future/spacey subgenre of fantasy. I like nitpicking on this sort of stuff so I like to "correct" people when they say Star Wars is sci-fi do ho ho. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:36 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Yeah, exactly, it just goes to my point about definitions changing over time. There's certainly nothing wrong with calling Star Wars sci-fi to mean "future-y space-y" stuff, which is why I specific it's only not scifi in the critical sense of the word, which relates to influence/impact which I think is how Star Wars entered into the conversation in the first place. The whole point of genre labels is to give a broad framework for identifying and analyzing common tropes/plots/elements/etc. anyways, as long as everyone involved is clear on what general definitions are being employed any label is as good as any other really. That makes sense. My problem is that when you call these shows sci-fi it isn't really that descriptive since the only thing they borrow from sci-fi is the future/spacey stuff where as they borrow heavily from fantasy so it makes more sense to call them fantasy genre or some kind of future/spacey subgenre of fantasy. Is there such a descriptor? | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:46 Numy wrote: Kickstarter would be a pretty recent thing that "revolutionized" gaming. Hm, I'm not sure on that point. Sure Kickstarter launched a lot of small titles but it's still a very very fringe platform and never really launched any hardhitting blockbusters. The traditional studio/publishing model still dominates the industry. Crowdfunding remains niche, hardly revolutionary. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
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