EPTOff-Topic General Discussion - Page 4657
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 29 2015 05:56 Numy wrote: I just enjoyed S2 a lot more than what Riot decided the direction of the game should be since. Don't really like what dota did either. I like early advantages mattering, I don't like the whole "late game shitfest" that both games are trying to push to. Imo s3 and s4 was super boring. S5 is pretty good so far though, especially after adding new juggernaut. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On March 29 2015 05:56 Numy wrote: I just enjoyed S2 a lot more than what Riot decided the direction of the game should be since. Don't really like what dota did either. I like early advantages mattering, I don't like the whole "late game shitfest" that both games are trying to push to. I never understand this sentiment, since statistically the team that gets the first tower/dragon wins like 75% of the time, so early advantage is obviously a big deal. A level one kill still translates to like a 60% winrate too. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On March 29 2015 05:52 wei2coolman wrote: Why do mods even have relationship with riot? Wasn't the whole point of reddit supposed to be bottom up community driven aggregation of news, events, articles, and dank memes? I don't see why riot should have any hand in moderation crew of reddit. Severs crash. Reddit is flooded with threads complaining. Riot tells Reddit mods what's happening. Information about what's wrong and when it might be fixed reaches people better and Reddit isn't flooded with spam. Everyone wins. Riot wants to sell tickets to events. Let the Reddit mods know when the link will be up so they know what time tons of people will attempt to the person who hits the front page. That way they know what time at least one mod needs to be awake so the spam filter isn't overloaded. Like, come on. Those example took longer to type than it was to think of. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 29 2015 05:59 Ketara wrote: I never understand this sentiment, since statistically the team that gets the first tower/dragon wins like 75% of the time, so early advantage is obviously a big deal. A level one kill still translates to like a 60% winrate too. When I was playing this wasn't high level league. It was like silver-gold level where in prior seasons it felt like I had real impact on the game but when I started playing again at the end of last year it felt like nothing I did early on really mattered unless I fed huge since all that mattered was who won that mid-late game teamfight. Statistics don't really change how one feels when playing. I don't know if it's changed since I tried playing again since I just haven't had any motivation to try league again. The hero model doesn't help my motivation either :<. Well I tried with Neo but my int ping is too shit lately. Dota is pretty similar these days. Can play so well to get huge then you mess up once or twice later on and that's it the other team now has all the momentum. Just feels shit. I also hate Riot's style of kneejerk changes instead of letting it sit for a few months. Well that and not changing draft system for pro games. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Not that I don't enjoy a good Kennen+Karthus comp like the end of s2 saw a bunch, but I liked how the "over 10s teamfights" went. Having the first dragon doesn't mean crap because you've got to look at how much ahead (and why) the team that gets it is. First dragon is more often the consequence than a cause. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 29 2015 06:01 MoonBear wrote: Severs crash. Reddit is flooded with threads complaining. Riot tells Reddit mods what's happening. Information about what's wrong and when it might be fixed reaches people better and Reddit isn't flooded with spam. Everyone wins. Riot wants to sell tickets to events. Let the Reddit mods know when the link will be up so they know what time tons of people will attempt to the person who hits the front page. That way they know what time at least one mod needs to be awake so the spam filter isn't overloaded. Like, come on. Those example took longer to type than it was to think of. Yeah, that shouldn't be part of Riot's interaction with mods, it should be official press release, with community posting it or upvoting it. Or allow riot to directly post content, none of which should rely on direct conversations with mods regarding any of these. This is probably my own very idealistic view on the situation. It just seems like greed of mods in wanting to have some semblence of efame and importance overlapping with Riot's need to want control of all community interaction. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On March 29 2015 06:02 Numy wrote: When I was playing this wasn't high level league. It was like silver-gold level where in prior seasons it felt like I had real impact on the game but when I started playing again at the end of last year it felt like nothing I did early on really mattered unless I fed huge since all that mattered was who won that mid-late game teamfight. Statistics don't really change how one feels when playing. I don't know if it's changed since I tried playing again since I just haven't had any motivation to try league again. The hero model doesn't help my motivation either :<. Well I tried with Neo but my int ping is too shit lately. Dota is pretty similar these days. Can play so well to get huge then you mess up once or twice later on and that's it the other team now has all the momentum. Just feels shit. I also hate Riot's style of kneejerk changes instead of letting it sit for a few months. Well that and not changing draft system for pro games. I mean, the game not feeling good is a big deal and I'm not trying to diminish that. I'm just saying that its easy to see in this instance that said feelings are not an accurate representation of what the game is actually like. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On March 29 2015 06:06 wei2coolman wrote: Yeah, that shouldn't be part of Riot's interaction with mods, it should be official press release, with community posting it or upvoting it. Or allow riot to directly post content, none of which should rely on direct conversations with mods regarding any of these. This is probably my own very idealistic view on the situation. It just seems like greed of mods in wanting to have some semblence of efame and importance overlapping with Riot's need to want control of all community interaction. I mean like this seems like a totally reasonable conversation? Mods: Hey Riot, dealing with all this thread spam is really hard. Can you let us know in advance before a big announcement so our spam filter doesn't die because the Reddit admins don't give us a lot of tools to deal with it? Riot: Sure, but some of this is super secret. So before we tell you stuff like advance notice of ticket sales we need you to sign an NDA. And rather than use Reddit's message system let's just use a Skype chatroom because it's the easiest way for all of us to talk. Mods: Sure. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On March 29 2015 06:13 MoonBear wrote: I mean like this seems like a totally reasonable conversation? Mods: Hey Riot, dealing with all this thread spam is really hard. Can you let us know in advance before a big announcement so our spam filter doesn't die because the Reddit admins don't give us a lot of tools to deal with it? Riot: Sure, but some of this is super secret. So before we tell you stuff like advance notice of ticket sales we need you to sign an NDA. And rather than use Reddit's message system let's just use a Skype chatroom because it's the easiest way for all of us to talk. Mods: Sure. Like it or not i think reddit has become a media source of its own, especially in the league community. except reddit and reddit mods are not held accountable for violations of journalism ethics. If it was Thoorin or Richard lewis or any Travis or any 'journalist' getting advanced knowledge in exchange for signed NDAs or elsewise would it be reasonable? no. It's at the point where any league coverage that doesn't make it to reddit is essentially non-existent in the community. and having that level of control over the media of a scene while also being beholden to riot, even if its only in a small way, is a definite issue. The level of control reddit and by association the mods have, should be governed by the ethics upheld by the rest of the media. (in theory) full disclosure of relationships, potentially losing their mod-ship and all that, asking Riot to put out a press release a day before or hours before a thing happens instead of being able to skip that step because the reddit mods can do the work for them, is reasonable, and gives all journalists a fair shake, rather than making them even more beholden to reddit. getting the first scoop will create bias. period. whether there is an actual quid pro quo or not, there will be a specter of it on every action they take. and their actions will be biased in some small way. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21247 Posts
On March 29 2015 06:18 PrinceXizor wrote: If it was Thoorin or Richard lewis or any Travis or any 'journalist' getting advanced knowledge in exchange for signed NDAs or elsewise would it be reasonable? no. . This is exactly how real journalism works... | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23342 Posts
On March 29 2015 05:50 TheYango wrote: Well I mean even among things where there's no direct analogues, my favorite version of the game was also one that was pretty generally unpopular, so even if you took DotA out of the equation, I can accept that my view on what League should be like is pretty unorthodox. I was already kinda bitching about things before I even got my DotA 2 beta key and started playing DotA again. One thing I always wonder is what Lee Sin would be like as a champion if rather than removing the double-E bug and buffing the shit out of everything, they didn't buff him and balanced him around the double-E bug. zz that doesnt make any sense double e bug is just a flat damage increase and was really silly designing a champ around a bug is generally a shitty idea it kind of worked with alistar but not really personally i think lee sin is more intereseting as achampion when W only works on allied champions right now lee sin is played because he has 2 flashes and a knockback would be more interesting if he was stronger but didn't have a free flash and you had to use w intelligently | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On March 29 2015 06:18 PrinceXizor wrote: Like it or not i think reddit has become a media source of its own, especially in the league community. except reddit and reddit mods are not held accountable for violations of journalism ethics. If it was Thoorin or Richard lewis or any Travis or any 'journalist' getting advanced knowledge in exchange for signed NDAs or elsewise would it be reasonable? no. It's at the point where any league coverage that doesn't make it to reddit is essentially non-existent in the community. and having that level of control over the media of a scene while also being beholden to riot, even if its only in a small way, is a definite issue. The level of control reddit and by association the mods have, should be governed by the ethics upheld by the rest of the media. (in theory) full disclosure of relationships, potentially losing their mod-ship and all that, asking Riot to put out a press release a day before or hours before a thing happens instead of being able to skip that step because the reddit mods can do the work for them, is reasonable, and gives all journalists a fair shake, rather than making them even more beholden to reddit. The Reddit mods don't actively seek out information and their not journalists. They're just people who who try not to have their subreddit catch fire or drown under spam. Having access to information in advance doesn't make them any money or anything, it just makes their lives easier. So I can sympathise with their position. And I'm not really concerned about the existence of the NDA itself. I agree on the issue of the conflict of interest (both perceived and actual) and I've written about it already. I also agree it would be good to have a public policy that describes how Riot and the subreddit mods will interact so it's clear what the limits are and stuff. But the NDA itself I don't think is worth being outraged about. The internet has enough outrage anyway. On March 29 2015 06:23 wei2coolman wrote: The biggest problem I have with it, is it establishes a relationship between rito and the mods where there are no similar relationship with smaller content creators, especially considering how shitty the mods deal with non rito content creator. If at TL we felt we needed a dedicated channel of communication with Riot for some sensible reason I wouldn't be against it. I mean, a lot of staff have various Rioters on their Skype contacts list anyway. (Mine are mainly tech people from my old Wrench days and people who I knew before they got hired though.) Note: This is my personal view, and does not represent the views of the Admins or TL itself. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On March 29 2015 06:26 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: This is exactly how real journalism works... not exactly. that may be how review works, NDAs, embargos and all. but not how journalism works. a journalist with a relationship with an entity has to not only disclose that relationship, but often pass that information to another writer without that relationship. a source might be a riot employee, but rarely is it the business end of riot itself for example. even rarer would that journalist take that information themselves without disclosure of a business relationship and then write about it. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On March 29 2015 06:26 Slayer91 wrote: zz that doesnt make any sense double e bug is just a flat damage increase and was really silly designing a champ around a bug is generally a shitty idea it kind of worked with alistar but not really personally i think lee sin is more intereseting as achampion when W only works on allied champions right now lee sin is played because he has 2 flashes and a knockback would be more interesting if he was stronger but didn't have a free flash and you had to use w intelligently Azir is a champ that was designed and buffed around bugs actively. the community found something about him and the designer set out to implement the bug in the code because it was cool. Alistar is the most notable one. Leblanc is currently in the process of being balanced around the whole buffering thing that popped up as a bug. there are more but those are the notable ones right now i think. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On March 29 2015 06:29 PrinceXizor wrote: not exactly. that may be how review works, NDAs, embargos and all. but not how journalism works. a journalist with a relationship with an entity has to not only disclose that relationship, but often pass that information to another writer without that relationship. a source might be a riot employee, but rarely is it the business end of riot itself for example. even rarer would that journalist take that information themselves without disclosure of a business relationship and then write about it. On the issue of business relationships I don't see the moderators and Riot having one? It seems to just be a convenient way to talk to each other, and the NDA gives Riot comfort that anything they say won't be used inappropriately. (Like, say a mod selling information or giving it to a competitor company or whatever.) And for journalists I mean not really? A lot of journalists write in-depth about issues but they're not experts in their field. So they go find someone who is. Or maybe they approach the company or employees directly. And these people are happy to help, but for whatever reason they're not comfortable with having their name and the fact they talked disclosed. This could be for totally innocent and valid reasons. For example, maybe you're a Community Credit Union and you're happy to talk about how ELA requests to the central bank work, but you know what if you're disclosed as the source of information then weird angry people on the internet will spam your company with death threats and honestly it's not worth your time and effort dealing with them. NDAs like that aren't as rare as you think they might be. EDIT: To be clear, an NDA is just an agreement where you say "anything we say to each other is confidential and we can only mention this to other people if we both agree and both of us are free to walk away at any point in time". It's not like there's any money or whatever involved. I think you might be confusing this with a business contract where there's an NDA clause stuck on the end. That's different. | ||
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Crusnik
United States5378 Posts
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