Also, PX, bear in mind that Parnage is basically using "top 3 games ever made in their genre" as his standard here. Even with a strong pedigree like that, probably 2/3 of that list would be invalidated by his standard as being "good but not good enough". Relative to other JRPGs, FF9/10 would not rank as highly as PST/Arcanum rank among CRPGs, so if he was using an equivalent standard, those 2 games would also be "not good enough".
Like, by any reasonable standard, 2001 was a great year for games, but my point is that judging CRPGs by comparison to PST/Arcanum is not a "reasonable standard".
On February 23 2015 09:59 PrinceXizor wrote: Its only slowly over time, it tends to happen in jumps, someone with a vision drags the medium along with him all at once, and then the people iterate on that until the next great mind comes along.
I mean, on the flip side, if you have a dry spell where that leap's not happening, it feels like the industry's going nowhere, when it's really just waiting for the next big thing.
On February 23 2015 10:00 TheYango wrote: Also, PX, bear in mind that Parnage is basically using "top 3 games ever made in their genre" as his standard here. Even with a strong pedigree like that, probably 2/3 of that list would be invalidated by his standard as being "good but not good enough". Relative to other JRPGs, FF9/10 would not rank as highly as PST/Arcanum rank among CRPGs, so if he was using an equivalent standard, those 2 games would also be "not good enough".
On February 23 2015 09:59 PrinceXizor wrote: Its only slowly over time, it tends to happen in jumps, someone with a vision drags the medium along with him all at once, and then the people iterate on that until the next great mind comes along.
I mean, on the flip side, if you have a dry spell where that leap's not happening, it feels like the industry's going nowhere, when it's really just waiting for the next big thing.
The obvious solution is to find the Troika Dev's and get the band back together.
On February 23 2015 10:00 TheYango wrote: Also, PX, bear in mind that Parnage is basically using "top 3 games ever made in their genre" as his standard here. Even with a strong pedigree like that, probably 2/3 of that list would be invalidated by his standard as being "good but not good enough". Relative to other JRPGs, FF9/10 would not rank as highly as PST/Arcanum rank among CRPGs, so if he was using an equivalent standard, those 2 games would also be "not good enough".
On February 23 2015 09:59 PrinceXizor wrote: Its only slowly over time, it tends to happen in jumps, someone with a vision drags the medium along with him all at once, and then the people iterate on that until the next great mind comes along.
I mean, on the flip side, if you have a dry spell where that leap's not happening, it feels like the industry's going nowhere, when it's really just waiting for the next big thing.
The industry attempts jumps, but they just don't get fully realized or the risks taken by games are good, but the games are not. its those failures that inspire the next generation of top game designers.
and honestly, on that list the final fantasys are probably the weakest.
On February 23 2015 10:04 PrinceXizor wrote: and honestly, on that list the final fantasys are probably the weakest.
Sure, but would you confidently consider more than 1/3 of those games to be top 3 games of all time in their genre?
On February 23 2015 10:03 Parnage wrote: The obvious solution is to find the Troika Dev's and get the band back together.
The major players are still in the industry. Tim Cain's at Obsidian (inheriting Troika's pedigree of releasing buggy-as-shit games), Leonard Boyarsky is at Blizzard, and is a key designer on Diablo 3 (lol), and Jason Anderson worked on Wasteland 2 at inXile.
On February 23 2015 10:04 PrinceXizor wrote: and honestly, on that list the final fantasys are probably the weakest.
Sure, but would you confidently consider more than 1/3 of those games to be top 3 games of all time in their genre?
I'm gonna see
On February 23 2015 09:49 PrinceXizor wrote: runescape, FFIX, Black and white, Bejeweled, throne of Bhaal, FFX, Advance wars, Silent hill 2, Ico, GTA 3, Wrath of Cortex, Stronghold, DMC, Halo, Super monkey ball, Melee, Pikmin, Arcanum, animal crossing, Lord of Destruction, galactic battlegrounds, Train simulator, fatal frame .
runescape: yes, FFIX: no, Black and white: Yes, Bejeweled: of course, Bhaal: no, FFX: no, Advance wars: never played, Silent hill 2: yes, Ico: never played, GTA 3: yes, Wrath of Cortex: yes, Stronghold: yes, DMC: yes, Halo: Yeah probably, SMB: i mean wtf is its genre?, Melee: no, Pikmin: yes, Arcanum: yes, animal crossing, no, Lord of Destruction: yes, Galactic battlegrounds, no, Train simulator: yes, Fatal frame: its probably #4.
though a good portion of those depend on how you define their genre.
Yeah, if Pikmin's genre is "RTS", then there's no way it's top 3, and if Halo's genre is "FPS" and not "console FPS" there's absolutely no way it even stands a chance.
I'm surprised you rate Wrath of Cortex so highly given how huge the 3d platformer genre is. I'd have trouble convincingly labeling it top 3 given that I've liked a ton of 3d platformers, but don't feel like I'm good enough or experienced enough at the genre to definitively pick 3 best.
But parn you should really just play wasteland 2 while you wait for the next inXile game Tides of Numenara which will undoubtedly disappoint because its main title is Torment:
On February 23 2015 10:24 TheYango wrote: Yeah, if Pikmin's genre is "RTS", then there's no way it's top 3, and if Halo's genre is "FPS" and not "console FPS" there's absolutely no way it even stands a chance.
I'm surprised you rate Wrath of Cortex so highly given how huge the 3d platformer genre is. I'd have trouble convincingly labeling it top 3 given that I've liked a ton of 3d platformers, but don't feel like I'm good enough or experienced enough at the genre to definitively pick 3 best.
I view pikmin as a 3d puzzler rather than RTS. Halo i think is 3 in FPS though, are we retconning doom clones into FPS and not doom clones?
but wrath of cortex absolutely belongs in the top 3. that game is outstanding.
Going to assume DMC = Devil May Cry, in which case yes, DMC3 is the best for the "crazy-stylish, action" genre. Literally like watching combo videos in non-fighting games type action.
DMC3 will also have a special place as my probable favorite PS2 game of all-time (sharing 1st with Dark Cloud 2).
Speaking of RPG's, ya'll boys ever tried playing Xenosaga (PS2). That game was a trip....
edit:
On February 23 2015 10:37 Frolossus wrote: i'd also put spyro 2 and 3 way above any crash game for 3d platformers
THANK YOU. While everybody was going crazy over Crash Bandicoot, I was the only one amongst my friends who played/liked Spyro.
On February 23 2015 09:49 PrinceXizor wrote: runescape, FFIX, Black and white, Bejeweled, throne of Bhaal, FFX, Advance wars, Silent hill 2, Ico, GTA 3, Wrath of Cortex, Stronghold, DMC, Halo, Super monkey ball, Melee, Pikmin, Arcanum, animal crossing, Lord of Destruction, galactic battlegrounds, Train simulator, fatal frame .
runescape: yes, FFIX: no, Black and white: Yes, Bejeweled: of course, Bhaal: no, FFX: no, Advance wars: never played, Silent hill 2: yes, Ico: never played, GTA 3: yes, Wrath of Cortex: yes, Stronghold: yes, DMC: yes, Halo: Yeah probably, SMB: i mean wtf is its genre?, Melee: no, Pikmin: yes, Arcanum: yes, animal crossing, no, Lord of Destruction: yes, Galactic battlegrounds, no, Train simulator: yes, Fatal frame: its probably #4.
though a good portion of those depend on how you define their genre.
how does runescape qualify as a top 3 mmo?
i'd also put spyro 2 and 3 way above any crash game for 3d platformers
On February 23 2015 10:32 PrinceXizor wrote: I view pikmin as a 3d puzzler rather than RTS. Halo i think is 3 in FPS though, are we retconning doom clones into FPS and not doom clones?
CS1.6 (or HL1, if you want to count the core game and not the mod as it's own game) and Q3 are like auto 1+2 for FPS for me, 3rd spot gets super dicey depending on what you do and don't count as an FPS (e.g. tons of hybrids that *could* count). I just don't think Halo would make the cut unless you excluded PC to make those first 2 not auto-includes.
On February 23 2015 10:32 PrinceXizor wrote: but wrath of cortex absolutely belongs in the top 3. that game is outstanding.
It's been too long since I've played it and I didn't own the game, so I can't really argue it (plus I'm not exactly an expert on 3d platformers). I'm sure you've got your own arguments as to why it places where it does. Out of curiosity, where would you put other common choices like SM64, Banjo-Kazooie or Sonic Adventure?
On February 23 2015 10:37 TheYango wrote: It's been too long since I've played it and I didn't own the game, so I can't really argue it (plus I'm not exactly an expert on 3d platformers). I'm sure you've got your own arguments as to why it places where it does. Out of curiosity, where would you put other common choices like SM64, Banjo-Kazooie or Sonic Adventure?
SM64 is a weird one, because its more influential than it is good, similar to Halo, which defined modern FPS. While SM64 is a good game, i dunno if it'd say its above Wrath, unless we're talking about influential, in which case its #1. Banjo is an iterative of SM64's gameplay, IIRC they even share some textures. I think its more of a cult following kinda game than one of the top of its genre, certainly not bad, probably even great, but it doesn't match up to SM64 which i would put at #3.
I cannot comment on sonic adventure fairly. i grew up on genesis.
EPT
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