On November 17 2022 07:58 argonautdice wrote: So glad that TIME is able to make it. I hope he does well! Also rooting for mah boi Neeb and obviously Scarlett
Wow, so I guess based on the fresh news that Blizz is suspending service in China, this might be TIME's last big tournament
Every single EPT global tournament has been won by Zerg this year, I think this trend should stop with Dark and Reynor not playing this time. Of course Serral might just dominate and win again, but he normally doesnt do as well in DH tournament.
why the main steam still re-run the Regional 15 minutes pass the starting time? Should the show start 15 minute BEFORE the starting time? Will LMAO if they have "technical difficulty" because there was not enough equipment on location to start the show.
Edit: Oh, so the main channel is not running the Group Stage 1 and 2, right? nvm then.
On November 19 2022 10:18 tigera6 wrote: Time lost 3 straight series in Group Stage 3 and Bracket to Nightmare was....Nightmarish.
Nightmare's having a pretty good knockout bracket run, 2-0 drogo 2-1 nice and 2-0 Time are some of his best results ever.
Also wow Meomaika beat Spirit, second DHM in a row that he's beaten a good EU player (Harstem in Valencia.) Wonder if he's actually better than we give him credit for or if his tricks just aren't well known enough.
Poor Clem, he's probably getting a TvT against Bunny immediately. Maru also has a chance to beat up Solar again in the quarterfinals, Solar just can't catch a break.
Overall a fair bracket, the top four (Clem/Serral/herO/Maru) all have a quadrant to themselves.
On November 19 2022 16:29 M3t4PhYzX wrote: why does this tournament have such a convoluted, weird format/system?
makes it much harder to follow than it should be.. damn.
Personally, I like it a lot.
Decent format.. but overly convoluted. Maybe a bit too many "second chances" in the qualifiers. Also I still have no idea how ro32 qualifiers (from event not regionals) even work, tbh..
Does anyone know what happened to TIME? Was the jetlag too much or he had troubles practicing recently? Because his results are way worse than expected unfortunately :/.
On November 19 2022 16:29 M3t4PhYzX wrote: why does this tournament have such a convoluted, weird format/system?
makes it much harder to follow than it should be.. damn.
Personally, I like it a lot.
Decent format.. but overly convoluted. Maybe a bit too many "second chances" in the qualifiers. Also I still have no idea how ro32 qualifiers (from event not regionals) even work, tbh..
It's great from ro32 onwards though.
I think it's funny how they give so many 2nd chances to the weaker open bracket players who lose multiple matches in the first day, but Byun vs Serral in the ro16 and there's no 2nd chance at all lol. I mean I guess technically the ro24 guys lost at least 1 match in the first day, but if Serral loses to Byun or Clem loses to Bunny, I think many people would be pretty disappointed
On November 19 2022 22:47 RandomPlayer wrote: Serral Maru finals confirmed
I think herO-Serral would be a more interesting final. herO's beaten Serral, but seeing the builds he'd try in a big offline bo7 would be a treat. Or it could go the way of almost every ZvP final for the past 4 years...
Doubt that will happen though, it's increasingly looking like the GSL season 2 finals was a fluke and Maru has herO's number.
I guess the tournament is split into 2 part, the "Open Cup" part where everyone get as many chance to play as possible with lots of bracket and groups stage. Then we have the "Tournament" part starting today, which is the single elimination bracket only for the best players who have proven themselves from day 1. Given that its an offline tournament with real audience, I dont mind this format to provide lots of game and viewer experience.
On November 19 2022 22:47 RandomPlayer wrote: Serral Maru finals confirmed
I think herO-Serral would be a more interesting final. herO's beaten Serral, but seeing the builds he'd try in a big offline bo7 would be a treat. Or it could go the way of almost every ZvP final for the past 4 years...
Doubt that will happen though, it's increasingly looking like the GSL season 2 finals was a fluke and Maru has herO's number.
It's pretty easy to explain. herO came prepared with a style that hadn't been seen in years. Maru wasn't ready for it.
The meta has since adjusted and stabilized. There's a reason that style had gone out of style years ago, it's vulnerable if you know to prepare for it. Maru wasn't during those finals, no one was. Now the meta has adjusted and herO is back down to earth in that match up.
On November 19 2022 22:47 RandomPlayer wrote: Serral Maru finals confirmed
I think herO-Serral would be a more interesting final. herO's beaten Serral, but seeing the builds he'd try in a big offline bo7 would be a treat. Or it could go the way of almost every ZvP final for the past 4 years...
Doubt that will happen though, it's increasingly looking like the GSL season 2 finals was a fluke and Maru has herO's number.
It's pretty easy to explain. herO came prepared with a style that hadn't been seen in years. Maru wasn't ready for it.
The meta has since adjusted and stabilized. There's a reason that style had gone out of style years ago, it's vulnerable if you know to prepare for it. Maru wasn't during those finals, no one was. Now the meta has adjusted and herO is back down to earth in that match up.
I think it's partly true but Maru also lost partly because of the map pool: the game that herO won on Cosmic Sapphire would have been a loss if not for the gold map which favors 1) zergs 2) protoss 3) terrans. herO was too wasteful but the gold allowed for his strategy to barely work and various other strategies could have been used successfully on that map, so he had a big strategic edge.
It seems though that herO is back to struggling a bit in the match-up. Fans of MaxPax would say the Danish protoss has figured out the MU, but we have seen in his games against Clem that low stakes tournaments do not mean that much compared to the DreamHack and/or offline tournaments.
I think Maru will struggle vs herO if they both get there, but as a Maru fan I am pretty biased towards being too scared for Maru than I should realistically be
On November 19 2022 22:47 RandomPlayer wrote: Serral Maru finals confirmed
I think herO-Serral would be a more interesting final. herO's beaten Serral, but seeing the builds he'd try in a big offline bo7 would be a treat. Or it could go the way of almost every ZvP final for the past 4 years...
Doubt that will happen though, it's increasingly looking like the GSL season 2 finals was a fluke and Maru has herO's number.
It's pretty easy to explain. herO came prepared with a style that hadn't been seen in years. Maru wasn't ready for it.
The meta has since adjusted and stabilized. There's a reason that style had gone out of style years ago, it's vulnerable if you know to prepare for it. Maru wasn't during those finals, no one was. Now the meta has adjusted and herO is back down to earth in that match up.
I think it's partly true but Maru also lost partly because of the map pool: the game that herO won on Cosmic Sapphire would have been a loss if not for the gold map which favors 1) zergs 2) protoss 3) terrans. herO was too wasteful but the gold allowed for his strategy to barely work and various other strategies could have been used successfully on that map, so he had a big strategic edge.
It seems though that herO is back to struggling a bit in the match-up. Fans of MaxPax would say the Danish protoss has figured out the MU, but we have seen in his games against Clem that low stakes tournaments do not mean that much compared to the DreamHack and/or offline tournaments.
I think Maru will struggle vs herO if they both get there, but as a Maru fan I am pretty biased towards being too scared for Maru than I should realistically be
herO is good enough to beat Maru straight up if Maru is a little off, and tricky enough to steal a game here and there, but I struggle to put his odds against Maru at higher than 30-35%. That still probably makes him the scariest player in the tournament for Maru other than Serral.
I feel that the build that Maru used in the recent match against herO work very well, which is the 1-1-1 opening into 3CC and another 2 racks, which give strong defense, give lots of Bio unit while doing an economic build. If herO try to bash his Stalker pressure into that, he will either die or not doing enough damage. If herO want to do a greedy build with lots of Probe and early expansion, then he can be hit with the normal timing from Terran push.
What made the GSL Final S2 the way it was because Maru thought he was fighiting against some standard Protoss build, where he want to move out early, even with SCV pull, to punish an early econ build. But herO didnt went crazy with probes, he build extra gateway and Robo unit to defend, and Maru hit did nothing and fell behind.
On November 19 2022 17:37 Poopi wrote: Difficult bracket for Maru, hopefully herO still hasn’t found the key to PvT
Maru has one of the easiest draw. He gets to do his usual spanking in solar
Solar can never catch a break and be on the opposite bracket of Maru
Outside of the top 4 seeds which were SET to meet in the SemiFinal, who could give Maru a run? I know the Solar meme but its more about him running to Maru early, not about Maru "getting a break" for getting Solar instead of who? Heromarine? Showtime? Astrea? Neeb? You think Maru would have WAY more difficult series against those guys?
Btw, seems like Nightmare is the magical run this time around.
On November 20 2022 00:39 sudete wrote: Thanks to nightmare, scarlett has a free run to the quarterfinals
And once again PvP rears its ugly head. Knocks out people who are actually decent
Hasn't Neeb started university by now? He has probably less time to practice the various match-ups and is more prone to getting upset imo. NightMare had a bad start in group stage 1, but his knockout bracket run was pretty insane, so his form and momentum is probably through the roof, giving him the confidence needed to perform at his best! I hope to see him play well vs Scarlett, and she is probably happy to play a different opponent than the one she has played a thousand times in DH:NA?
On November 20 2022 00:45 Zergiica wrote: A move protoss. It shouldn't be a win for Zoun, Byun made everything good, had stronger army... Well, PvT is PvT....................
I love watching Byun getting back to top form, but that was a very bad fight from him. The 3 Colossi were completely healthy for the entire fight and keep dishing out damage.
On November 20 2022 00:39 sudete wrote: Thanks to nightmare, scarlett has a free run to the quarterfinals
And once again PvP rears its ugly head. Knocks out people who are actually decent
Hasn't Neeb started university by now? He has probably less time to practice the various match-ups and is more prone to getting upset imo. NightMare had a bad start in group stage 1, but his knockout bracket run was pretty insane, so his form and momentum is probably through the roof, giving him the confidence needed to perform at his best! I hope to see him play well vs Scarlett, and she is probably happy to play a different opponent than the one she has played a thousand times in DH:NA?
Most of Nightmare's run was PvP, which is more likely to produce upsets, but he did beat Time so he's probably in an okay place mechanically . Still expect him to lose to Scarlett, but it might not be a total stomp.
Heromarine 3-0 Gumiho is surprising and disappointing. Some other KR pro was claiming Gumiho is the best TvT right now over Maru. Can't remember who said that think it might have been Byun. Gumiho also has much higher upset potential vs the top players while Heromarine has no chance of getting past Serral so that's an unfortunate result.
On November 20 2022 00:54 JJH777 wrote: Heromarine 3-0 Gumiho is surprising and disappointing. Some other KR pro was claiming Gumiho is the best TvT right now over Maru. Can't remember who said that think it might have been Byun. Gumiho also has much higher upset potential vs the top players while Heromarine has no chance of getting past Serral so that's an unfortunate result.
Maybe if Maru is too lazy to play proper TvT like his series vs Bunny? I think Maru's weakness in TvT is being bored by his own perfect playstyle and trying things out, otherwise nobody seemed to have cracked him properly
On November 20 2022 00:54 JJH777 wrote: Heromarine 3-0 Gumiho is surprising and disappointing. Some other KR pro was claiming Gumiho is the best TvT right now over Maru. Can't remember who said that think it might have been Byun. Gumiho also has much higher upset potential vs the top players while Heromarine has no chance of getting past Serral so that's an unfortunate result.
I think HM has a better shot vs Serral than Gumi, he tend to be quite good vs European
On November 20 2022 00:54 JJH777 wrote: Heromarine 3-0 Gumiho is surprising and disappointing. Some other KR pro was claiming Gumiho is the best TvT right now over Maru. Can't remember who said that think it might have been Byun. Gumiho also has much higher upset potential vs the top players while Heromarine has no chance of getting past Serral so that's an unfortunate result.
I think HM has a better shot vs Serral than Gumi, he tend to be quite good vs European
He performs above his regular level vs Reynor and Clem but his match history vs Serral is pretty bad. He's won 4/28 series played and 1 of those wins was back in 2017.
On November 20 2022 00:54 JJH777 wrote: Heromarine 3-0 Gumiho is surprising and disappointing. Some other KR pro was claiming Gumiho is the best TvT right now over Maru. Can't remember who said that think it might have been Byun. Gumiho also has much higher upset potential vs the top players while Heromarine has no chance of getting past Serral so that's an unfortunate result.
I think HM has a better shot vs Serral than Gumi, he tend to be quite good vs European
He performs above his regular level vs Reynor and Clem but his match history vs Serral is pretty bad. He's won 4/28 series played and 1 of those wins was back in 2017.
But the last time they played in Bo5, HM eliminate Serral from DH Valencia EU
On November 20 2022 00:54 JJH777 wrote: Heromarine 3-0 Gumiho is surprising and disappointing. Some other KR pro was claiming Gumiho is the best TvT right now over Maru. Can't remember who said that think it might have been Byun. Gumiho also has much higher upset potential vs the top players while Heromarine has no chance of getting past Serral so that's an unfortunate result.
I think HM has a better shot vs Serral than Gumi, he tend to be quite good vs European
He performs above his regular level vs Reynor and Clem but his match history vs Serral is pretty bad. He's won 4/28 series played and 1 of those wins was back in 2017.
HM's TvT is around Clem's level in the match-up, so imo it is not performing above his level to beat Clem. As for Reynor, it's more a matter of style / Reynor being too predictable than HM playing better than vs Serral imo. Since HeroMarine likes to dissect his opponents and exploit their weaknesses, he usually has more trouble against the solid overall players like Serral, Zest or Maru
On November 20 2022 01:53 tigera6 wrote: 6 Toss in the Ro16 despite losing Zest and Trap to military service and MaxPax not playing, never saw this coming.
if Cure wins it'll be 5-5-6 for all races, and if DRG wins it'll be 4-6-6 without Dark and Reynor It's pretty even
On November 20 2022 01:53 tigera6 wrote: 6 Toss in the Ro16 despite losing Zest and Trap to military service and MaxPax not playing, never saw this coming.
if Cure wins it'll be 5-5-6 for all races, and if DRG wins it'll be 4-6-6 without Dark and Reynor It's pretty even
And yet Zerg fans continue to unironically say that without the top 4 Zergs the race would do poorly. Everytime a portion of the top 4 miss or do badly in an event the mid tier Zergs stepup.
On November 20 2022 03:06 Nakajin wrote: Clem got rolled over
Yeah, not sure which curse is worse between the TvT and the offline one, but being a Clem fan in those events is getting painful! Bunny was extremely on point though, let's see how far he can go.
Zoun is actually the best or 2nd best late game Skytoss from the previous VR patch. His Sky army composition is just complete and he knows how to take the right fight.
On November 20 2022 03:06 Nakajin wrote: Clem got rolled over
Yeah, not sure which curse is worse between the TvT and the offline one, but being a Clem fan in those events is getting painful! Bunny was extremely on point though, let's see how far he can go.
I think Clem’s unhealthy habits (allegedly) don’t help him during travel. HeroMarine said he was getting sick in every international tournament until he started working out and eating properly, maybe that’s what Clem needs to perform as well as online? Idk but that’s gotta be disappointing for him
On November 20 2022 04:42 JJH777 wrote: herO winning this event would definitely be one of the least impressive premier runs out there. Crazy how the groups and bracket worked out for him.
if he beats Maru and Serral back to back I wouldn't call it one of the least impressive premier runs
On November 20 2022 04:42 JJH777 wrote: herO winning this event would definitely be one of the least impressive premier runs out there. Crazy how the groups and bracket worked out for him.
if he beats Maru and Serral back to back I wouldn't call it one of the least impressive premier runs
watch it end up being wins over Solar and Ragnarok.
On November 20 2022 04:42 JJH777 wrote: herO winning this event would definitely be one of the least impressive premier runs out there. Crazy how the groups and bracket worked out for him.
if he beats Maru and Serral back to back I wouldn't call it one of the least impressive premier runs
watch it end up being wins over Solar and Ragnarok.
Where are you predicting Nightmare's bizarre run to end?
Was there an English cast for the Maru vs. DRG VOD? I've tried looking at ESL's B, C, and D streams but none are online. Can't find one stream that featured the game.
On November 20 2022 05:49 StuDToSs wrote: Was there an English cast for the Maru vs. DRG VOD? I've tried looking at ESL's B, C, and D streams but none are online. Can't find one stream that featured the game.
On November 20 2022 09:13 Antithesis wrote: There is now the actual possibility that Serral's comfortable 3:1 over Ragnarok will be the least one-sided of all quarter-finals.
Happy to see that this possibility is off the table.
Solar put up a very good fight in this series, despite their history and them even being teammates now I still didn't expect it to go down to the last game like that.
Maru is potentially going to only play 2 series tomorrow. He might have a good chance to win. A Maru-Serral final would be epic.
(I do think the long days and him playing a long-arduous series against Reynor in DH Valencia hampered him. Compared to others, I think his level of plays suffer the longer he plays. Maybe that's why he excels in GSL.)
A pretty unsurprising ro4, but there were some nice stories along the way (Astrea's run, Nightmare's breakout performance, Solar playing quite well against Maru for once.) Considering how many good Terran there were in this tournament I'm not surprised that Clem underperformed.
My guess would be Serral 3-1 Bunny, Maru 3-1 herO, Serral 4-2 Maru, but I hope herO can upset.
On November 20 2022 10:34 dysenterymd wrote: A pretty unsurprising ro4, but there were some nice stories along the way (Astrea's run, Nightmare's breakout performance, Solar playing quite well against Maru for once.) Considering how many good Terran there were in this tournament I'm not surprised that Clem underperformed.
My guess would be Serral 3-1 Bunny, Maru 3-1 herO, Serral 4-2 Maru, but I hope herO can upset.
Thx for joining me in making the most unexciting prediction possible
So the final 4. The two best Terrans in the world. The best Protoss in the world and the best foreigner in the world, the only one of the Zerg's Big 4 to be in attendance at this tournament.
Not exactly a surprising result all things considered.
Of course what the crowd WANTS is for Maru vs Serral to be the finals. Since we are so frequently robbed of that, and considering what kind of event this is, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we're going to get Bunny vs herO in the finals, with Bunny winning 4-3.
Of course what the crowd WANTS is for Maru vs Serral to be the finals. Since we are so frequently robbed of that, and considering what kind of event this is, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we're going to get Bunny vs herO in the finals, with Bunny winning 4-3.
Do people really want that? They played 3 time already this year and Serral destroyed him, it wasn't even close.
Of course what the crowd WANTS is for Maru vs Serral to be the finals. Since we are so frequently robbed of that, and considering what kind of event this is, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we're going to get Bunny vs herO in the finals, with Bunny winning 4-3.
Do people really want that? They played 3 time already this year and Serral destroyed him, it wasn't even close.
I mean, was Serral beating Maru every single time until Maru 3-0 him in Asus RoG last year, and then 4-2 him in KoB2? I know Serral is in general favored against Maru because of their style, but the games was somewhat close, sometime a good/bad mine hit could change lots of things. The last couple meeting they meet, Serral trying for dear life to end Maru before lategame, and he broke through most of it.
At least this time around if they meet, Serral wont have the 1-0 advantage and taking out one of the Terran-favored map.
On November 20 2022 17:11 Poopi wrote: Wow Maru struggled even vs Solar, did he play below his level or is ZvT figured out again?
Solar is very strong in standard game or when he can scout the build order early enough. And Maru went the EXACT same build he did against Dark got backfired big time, the Blueflame Helion into Speed Banshee got destroyed by Muta.
On November 20 2022 22:54 Antithesis wrote: Hoping for a finals between Serral and herO. That would be much more exciting and interesting than another round of Serral vs. Maru.
Not if it ends 4-1 in favour of the Zerg. I've seen those PvZ series enough for a lifetime .
Valencia's marathon day was day 3, where they played RO8-Finals
Schedule changed for Atlanta to have day 2 be the super-long day, so day 3 is just semis and finals.
Seeing as how Maru struggled when he had to play the final match at the end of a long day, this might be his best chance to beat Serral yet? Then again, he got beat very convincingly in the TSL9 finals where the conditions were similar (one losers final match against showtime and then finals against serral).
On November 20 2022 17:11 Poopi wrote: Wow Maru struggled even vs Solar, did he play below his level or is ZvT figured out again?
In the interview Maru said it was a long day and he was tired, so hopefully he plays much better today
Yeah I hope so, I don’t wanna watch a one sided finals. Would be cool if Bunny beat Serral though, I will cheer for him as a TvT finals between Bunny and Maru would be epic, or a TvP.
I hoped it would finish earlier today with only two matches but it starts at 7pm CET instead of 4pm :|
Watching the opening match for World Cup and then the Final day of DH Atlanta is okay for me, eventhough that means it start at 1am my timezone. Btw, how did Bunny do against Serral in Group Stage 3, I knew the score was 2-1 but was it close?
Solar is also really good at TvZ. It's hands down his best match up.
Solar doesn't get as much love and respect as the other Zergs because he isn't nearly as good vs Protoss or Zerg as the Big 4 are. But his TvZ is good enough that every Terran player in the world should be wary of him and give him his proper respect.
On November 19 2022 16:29 M3t4PhYzX wrote: why does this tournament have such a convoluted, weird format/system?
makes it much harder to follow than it should be.. damn.
the format is very straightforward once you understand it it's hard to follow because of the lack of information about which games are being casted where (including non-english streams)
On November 21 2022 03:29 tigera6 wrote: Did Bunny not making enough Mines in the latter half of that game? he was trading so well with mass mines and a couple of Libs.
seems he started producing tanks because of the Lurkers
On November 21 2022 03:40 Nakajin wrote: Ah! I see Serral agreed to take the bullet for the bianual loss to convince terran to keep doing hellbat builds.
hmm I think the marauder version isn't that bad, I see it working quite a bit and you can't defend it with just Queens like a regular Hellbat build
On November 21 2022 03:40 Nakajin wrote: Ah! I see Serral agreed to take the bullet for the bianual loss to convince terran to keep doing hellbat builds.
On this map it makes sense though! But it can be countered easily if you think it could happen
Serral is lately faking lurkers and then overwhelming with ling/bane hydra. The fact that he can make the switch to lurkers in 10 secs doesn't help terrans to muster the correct army comp tho.
Bunny looking in better form than Serral atm. He has to control his nerves though, hold on one more game Bunny! I think he has a good shot vs both herO and Maru
On November 21 2022 03:54 tigera6 wrote: Did Serral mis-read the build timing from Bunny? Look like he was completely not ready to protect that 4th base from the beginning.
That made absolutely no sense to me as well, no scouting in the most obvious path either
Damn that's sick, I wanted Serral to win but Bunny really deserves a championship. Hard to see him beating Maru, but with momentum maybe Bunny could beat herO.
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Btw, I think EU Zerg will need to change their style against the 2-base all-in from Terran, just make Roach Ravager and crush them. Lingbane off-creep is just so bad even when they try to get the surround.
On November 21 2022 03:40 Nakajin wrote: Ah! I see Serral agreed to take the bullet for the bianual loss to convince terran to keep doing hellbat builds.
hmm I think the marauder version isn't that bad, I see it working quite a bit and you can't defend it with just Queens like a regular Hellbat build
I also think it helps that he started the fight before morphing to hellbats, he was able to quickly jump on and kill a few queens early
On November 21 2022 04:09 tigera6 wrote: Btw, I think EU Zerg will need to change their style against the 2-base all-in from Terran, just make Roach Ravager and crush them. Lingbane off-creep is just so bad even when they try to get the surround.
Defo, can't see Dark losing to these pushes as easily for example.
Really felt like Bunny outplayed Serral this series. Even game 1 it felt like he was doing more impressive things. Serral's economy is just too strong through.
Keep trying to tell people. Zerg's had it way too easy the last few years even after their big nerfs in 2020. Adjust the map pool, and that Queen nerf that removes their ability to transfuse off creep that they abused RELENTLESSLY vs Protoss and all of a sudden the balance of power has shifted quite considerably.
Zerg's by no means weak right now, but their dominance had so much to do with just how easy tournaments made it for them to consistently stay on top. Addressing it even a little bit has changed the landscape a lot in 2022.
On November 21 2022 04:15 Brutaxilos wrote: Really felt like Bunny outplayed Serral this series. Even game 1 it felt like he was doing more impressive things. Serral's economy is just too strong through.
Well, Serral did zero thing during the entire series to slow Bunny down, no runby, no sneaky banes, no Nydus, no dropping lord. Basically Bunny was able to do whatever he planned and Serral try to fight the Terran army head-on. And his micro wasnt on-point with mines making some great hit then things going downhill.
Btw, in 2022, Bunny has been able to beat Serral-Maru-Reynor-Clem-herO, that put him into some rare tier.
On November 21 2022 04:15 Brutaxilos wrote: Really felt like Bunny outplayed Serral this series. Even game 1 it felt like he was doing more impressive things. Serral's economy is just too strong through.
Well, Serral did zero thing during the entire series to slow Bunny down, no runby, no sneaky banes, no Nydus, no dropping lord. Basically Bunny was able to do whatever he planned and Serral try to fight the Terran army head-on. And his micro wasnt on-point with mines making some great hit then things going downhill.
Btw, in 2022, Bunny has been able to beat Serral-Maru-Reynor-Clem-herO, that put him into some rare tier.
Is Bunny the new god slayer akin to Leffen in super smash bros melee?
When was the last time we had a tvt final at an offline international event btw? I honestly can't recal anything since like, MMA-jjakji at Dreamhack in 2014.
On November 21 2022 04:09 tigera6 wrote: Btw, I think EU Zerg will need to change their style against the 2-base all-in from Terran, just make Roach Ravager and crush them. Lingbane off-creep is just so bad even when they try to get the surround.
I was thinking about this bc we've seen it so many times, especially on that map bc of the crevice you can shove siege tanks, but don't forget that Bunny showed cloak banshee and immediately built four rax after killing the overlord. Serral couldn't have been as prepared for that push as he needed to be.
On November 21 2022 04:27 Nakajin wrote: When was the last time we had a tvt final at an offline international event btw? I honestly can't recal anything since like, MMA-jjakji at Dreamhack in 2014.
What if herO is just trying to tire Maru out so Bunny can win his first championship?? Jokes aside, herO mixed up great plays and weird decisions, reminds me of Zest throws into Cure bases after an excellent macro setup, but this time it’s excellent tactics
On November 21 2022 04:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This game really illustrated why the Disruptor is my favourite new unit in StarCraft 2 though. Really punishes mistakes hard for either player.
Are you kidding? it's the worst new unit in SC2. No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm. No unit in SC1 worked like that for good reason.
On November 21 2022 04:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This game really illustrated why the Disruptor is my favourite new unit in StarCraft 2 though. Really punishes mistakes hard for either player.
Are you kidding? it's the worst new unit in SC2. No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm. No unit in SC1 worked like that for good reason.
Spider Mines worked like that in SC1. And came three free with a 75 mineral basic unit.
On November 21 2022 04:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This game really illustrated why the Disruptor is my favourite new unit in StarCraft 2 though. Really punishes mistakes hard for either player.
Are you kidding? it's the worst new unit in SC2. No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm. No unit in SC1 worked like that for good reason.
It's a version of Mines and Banes that requires some amount of skill and investment. It's not my favorite, but it's far from the worst unit.
On November 21 2022 04:27 Nakajin wrote: When was the last time we had a tvt final at an offline international event btw? I honestly can't recal anything since like, MMA-jjakji at Dreamhack in 2014.
TY vs Inno, GSL vs the World?
I mean if you wanna get all technical GSL isn't region-locked
The last premier TvT final outside of Asia was Bomber vs Cure so it's safe to say it's been a hot second.
On November 21 2022 04:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This game really illustrated why the Disruptor is my favourite new unit in StarCraft 2 though. Really punishes mistakes hard for either player.
Are you kidding? it's the worst new unit in SC2. No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm. No unit in SC1 worked like that for good reason.
Spider Mines worked like that in SC1. And came three free with a 75 mineral basic unit.
Mines don't 1hit nearly as many units as disruptors do.
On November 21 2022 04:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This game really illustrated why the Disruptor is my favourite new unit in StarCraft 2 though. Really punishes mistakes hard for either player.
Are you kidding? it's the worst new unit in SC2. No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm. No unit in SC1 worked like that for good reason.
Spider Mines worked like that in SC1. And came three free with a 75 mineral basic unit.
Spider Mines couldn't wipe out as much supply as Disrupter novas can. Their splash damage is so much smaller, and units in SC1 didn't clump up as tight.
On November 21 2022 04:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This game really illustrated why the Disruptor is my favourite new unit in StarCraft 2 though. Really punishes mistakes hard for either player.
Are you kidding? it's the worst new unit in SC2. No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm. No unit in SC1 worked like that for good reason.
Spider Mines worked like that in SC1. And came three free with a 75 mineral basic unit.
Mines don't 1hit nearly as many units as disruptors do.
You said Disruptors were bad because "No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm."
All true of the Spider Mine.
Now you're saying it has nothing to do with how the units work, but with "the number of units 1hit"?
On November 21 2022 04:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This game really illustrated why the Disruptor is my favourite new unit in StarCraft 2 though. Really punishes mistakes hard for either player.
Are you kidding? it's the worst new unit in SC2. No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm. No unit in SC1 worked like that for good reason.
Spider Mines worked like that in SC1. And came three free with a 75 mineral basic unit.
Spider Mines couldn't wipe out as much supply as Disrupter novas can. Their splash damage is so much smaller, and units in SC1 didn't clump up as tight.
They shouldn't. You don't get three Disruption Novas free with every Zealot. Disruptors actually involve risk and investment on the part of their user.
On November 21 2022 04:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This game really illustrated why the Disruptor is my favourite new unit in StarCraft 2 though. Really punishes mistakes hard for either player.
Are you kidding? it's the worst new unit in SC2. No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm. No unit in SC1 worked like that for good reason.
Spider Mines worked like that in SC1. And came three free with a 75 mineral basic unit.
Mines don't 1hit nearly as many units as disruptors do.
You said Disruptors were bad because "No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm."
All true of the Spider Mine.
Now you're saying it has nothing to do with how the units work, but with "the number of units 1hit"?
On November 21 2022 04:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This game really illustrated why the Disruptor is my favourite new unit in StarCraft 2 though. Really punishes mistakes hard for either player.
Are you kidding? it's the worst new unit in SC2. No "units are under attack" notification, no time to react if you aren't looking at the right place, just instant death in an area almost as large as a storm. No unit in SC1 worked like that for good reason.
Spider Mines worked like that in SC1. And came three free with a 75 mineral basic unit.
Spider Mines couldn't wipe out as much supply as Disrupter novas can. Their splash damage is so much smaller, and units in SC1 didn't clump up as tight.
They shouldn't. You don't get three Disruption Novas free with every Zealot. Disruptors actually involve risk and investment on the part of their user.
I was always talking about the fact that a Disruptor can 1hit nearly half a clumped midgame terran army, and units clump naturally in SC2 compared to SC1, and if you aren't looking at the army when the nova comes in, that's it, you've lost half the army in 1 second and there is no reaction or counterplay to do at that point. No unit in SC1 can singularly swing a game in that extreme a fashion.
It's not like storm which does damage over time, all the damage is done at once, so stuff like reactoin time, which traditionally distinguished "better players" from "worse players" in SC, simply has no place in this interaction. In comparison, something like storm is very different.
I don't understand why Maru doesn't switch into Battlecruisers in this kind of a game. If he's going to turtle like this, he needs to make a break out at some point, and Battlecruisers are the only units that can really do that.
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
On November 21 2022 05:19 TheLordofAwesome wrote: I was always talking about the fact that a Disruptor can 1hit nearly half a clumped midgame terran army, and units clump naturally in SC2 compared to SC1, and if you aren't looking at the army when the nova comes in, that's it, you've lost half the army in 1 second and there is no reaction or counterplay to do at that point. No unit in SC1 can singularly swing a game in that extreme a fashion.
It's not like storm which does damage over time, all the damage is done at once, so stuff like reactoin time, which traditionally distinguished "better players" from "worse players" in SC, simply has no place in this interaction. In comparison, something like storm is very different.
There's literally 2.1 seconds for you to react, and a variety of responses you can have to prevent the damage from happening. Your hypothetical relies heavily on "not looking at your army", but awareness of where your army is, where your opponent's army is, and seeing units on the minimap are things that "traditionally distinguished "better players" from "worse players" in SC", so I don't see your concern. If the Protoss took the risk of moving an extremely valuable and extremely vulnerable unit in place to catch your units unattended, then the benefits of the gamble match the risk. If the Protoss loses their splash damage from this move, that midgame Terran army is going to roll over them. What's the issue?
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
On November 21 2022 05:19 TheLordofAwesome wrote: I was always talking about the fact that a Disruptor can 1hit nearly half a clumped midgame terran army, and units clump naturally in SC2 compared to SC1, and if you aren't looking at the army when the nova comes in, that's it, you've lost half the army in 1 second and there is no reaction or counterplay to do at that point. No unit in SC1 can singularly swing a game in that extreme a fashion.
It's not like storm which does damage over time, all the damage is done at once, so stuff like reactoin time, which traditionally distinguished "better players" from "worse players" in SC, simply has no place in this interaction. In comparison, something like storm is very different.
There's literally 2.1 seconds for you to react, and a variety of responses you can have to prevent the damage from happening. Your hypothetical relies heavily on "not looking at your army", but awareness of where your army is, where your opponent's army is, and seeing units on the minimap are things that "traditionally distinguished "better players" from "worse players" in SC", so I don't see your concern. If the Protoss took the risk of moving an extremely valuable and extremely vulnerable unit in place to catch your units unattended, then the benefits of the gamble match the risk. If the Protoss loses their splash damage from this move, that midgame Terran army is going to roll over them. What's the issue?
I didn't say it was broken, I said it was overly hit or miss.
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
On November 21 2022 05:19 TheLordofAwesome wrote: I was always talking about the fact that a Disruptor can 1hit nearly half a clumped midgame terran army, and units clump naturally in SC2 compared to SC1, and if you aren't looking at the army when the nova comes in, that's it, you've lost half the army in 1 second and there is no reaction or counterplay to do at that point. No unit in SC1 can singularly swing a game in that extreme a fashion.
It's not like storm which does damage over time, all the damage is done at once, so stuff like reactoin time, which traditionally distinguished "better players" from "worse players" in SC, simply has no place in this interaction. In comparison, something like storm is very different.
There's literally 2.1 seconds for you to react, and a variety of responses you can have to prevent the damage from happening. Your hypothetical relies heavily on "not looking at your army", but awareness of where your army is, where your opponent's army is, and seeing units on the minimap are things that "traditionally distinguished "better players" from "worse players" in SC", so I don't see your concern. If the Protoss took the risk of moving an extremely valuable and extremely vulnerable unit in place to catch your units unattended, then the benefits of the gamble match the risk. If the Protoss loses their splash damage from this move, that midgame Terran army is going to roll over them. What's the issue?
I didn't say it was broken, I said it was overly hit or miss.
I was contesting the part where you said it didn't distinguish between better and worse players. One of the reasons I love Disruptors so much is because they do distinguish between good and bad players a lot., and the post which started this conversation was about that: Hero and Maru's first game had some exemplary demonstrations of Disruptor skill in that three-sided Disruptor flank, and some exemplary Disruptor misplay when Hero allowed Maru to sweep in and destroy all his exposed Disruptors.
If even Hero can make such massive blunders with his Disruptors, to me that certainly proves how much skill goes into using them properly.
That you don't like their volatility I can accept. That's just us having different tastes.
On November 20 2022 12:54 Vindicare605 wrote: Of course what the crowd WANTS is for Maru vs Serral to be the finals. Since we are so frequently robbed of that, and considering what kind of event this is, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we're going to get Bunny vs herO in the finals, with Bunny winning 4-3.
Sorry Maru I forgot you were godlike and thought it was over but you almost pulled off another miracle I shall stay hopeful until the very end for this next game
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
What did cure accomplished before the terran buff? Magically he won a GSL right after the patch. And went back to being irreverent straight after that championship.
Bunny lol. He was a pure gatekeeper similar to solar. Now all a sudden he is one of the best in the world?
Terrans fans always make me chuckle
What’s the terran fan base gonna tell us next? That gumiho is a championship contender every tournament
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
What did cure accomplished before the terran buff? Magically he won a GSL right after the patch. And went back to being irreverent straight after that championship.
Bunny lol. He was a pure gatekeeper similar to solar. Now all a sudden he is one of the best in the world?
Terrans fans always make me chuckle
Things do not stay frozen People practice and improve... I find such a silly argument what you are saying...
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
What did cure accomplished before the terran buff? Magically he won a GSL right after the patch. And went back to being irreverent straight after that championship.
Bunny lol. He was a pure gatekeeper similar to solar. Now all a sudden he is one of the best in the world?
Terrans fans always make me chuckle
Progamers win more when their race has potential? My inner Pikachu is very surprised
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
What did cure accomplished before the terran buff? Magically he won a GSL right after the patch. And went back to being irreverent straight after that championship.
Bunny lol. He was a pure gatekeeper similar to solar. Now all a sudden he is one of the best in the world?
Terrans fans always make me chuckle
No different than players like soO/Ragnarok/DRG/Solar/Lambo/Elazer making deep runs in premiers the last few years. All of them besides DRG have made finals in a premier event since 2019. You'd expect a lot of Bunny tier players to make the occasional final just like Zergs have if Z wasn't such a dominant force.
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
What did cure accomplished before the terran buff? Magically he won a GSL right after the patch. And went back to being irreverent straight after that championship.
Bunny lol. He was a pure gatekeeper similar to solar. Now all a sudden he is one of the best in the world?
Terrans fans always make me chuckle
Things do not stay frozen People practice and improve... I find such a silly argument what you are saying...
Tell that to the terran fan boys that instant Whine and complain online when a terran doesn’t win
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
What did cure accomplished before the terran buff? Magically he won a GSL right after the patch. And went back to being irreverent straight after that championship.
Bunny lol. He was a pure gatekeeper similar to solar. Now all a sudden he is one of the best in the world?
Terrans fans always make me chuckle
This is how i can tell you either don't watch the games or if you do you understand little about them. If you think Bunny is the same player he was 2 years ago or even last year then you're clearly not paying attention or unable to accurately gauge skill levels. Probably both.
Bunny has been consistently improving, he got noticeably better when Maru was his teammate on NV, his last 3 GSL performances have been remarkable.
You're either completely ignorant to what is going on in the Korean scene, or you're a troll. I'm convinced it's the latter.
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
What did cure accomplished before the terran buff? Magically he won a GSL right after the patch. And went back to being irreverent straight after that championship.
Bunny lol. He was a pure gatekeeper similar to solar. Now all a sudden he is one of the best in the world?
Terrans fans always make me chuckle
This is how i can tell you either don't watch the games or if you do you understand little about them. If you think Bunny is the same player he was 2 years ago or even last year then you're clearly not paying attention or unable to accurately gauge skill levels. Probably both.
Bunny has been consistently improving, he got noticeably better when Maru was his teammate on NV, his last 3 GSL performances have been remarkable.
You're either completely ignorant to what is going on in the Korean scene, or you're a troll. I'm convinced it's the latter.
You are known as a bias terran fan boy so what you say means pretty much nothing. You constantly try discredit the top 4 Zergs at every chance.
But continue to treat me like a troll like you mention before cause you definitely on mine
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
What did cure accomplished before the terran buff? Magically he won a GSL right after the patch. And went back to being irreverent straight after that championship.
Bunny lol. He was a pure gatekeeper similar to solar. Now all a sudden he is one of the best in the world?
Terrans fans always make me chuckle
This is how i can tell you either don't watch the games or if you do you understand little about them. If you think Bunny is the same player he was 2 years ago or even last year then you're clearly not paying attention or unable to accurately gauge skill levels. Probably both.
Bunny has been consistently improving, he got noticeably better when Maru was his teammate on NV, his last 3 GSL performances have been remarkable.
You're either completely ignorant to what is going on in the Korean scene, or you're a troll. I'm convinced it's the latter.
Yeah I think the French casters slept a bit too much on Bunny because they don’t pay as much attention to GSL. He has improved so much and was the one to keep PartinG honest in TvP back when he was dominating every other terran
On November 21 2022 06:01 TheLordofAwesome wrote: Wait what happened in this game? I tune in and it's 2000 - 100 resources lost????
Hero opened Stargate (EDIT: in-base, Void Ray first) and lost all his air units to a Widow Mine, a Viking and a Cyclone. And also shaded his Adepts into death.
On November 21 2022 06:01 TheLordofAwesome wrote: Wait what happened in this game? I tune in and it's 2000 - 100 resources lost????
Hero opened Stargate (EDIT: in-base, Void Ray first) and lost all his air units to a Widow Mine, a Viking and a Cyclone. And also shaded his Adepts into death.
Things did not improve thereafter.
Lol. I should go watch that, I am still having trouble understanding how Hero could lose all those units and only kill 2 marines/scvs.
On November 21 2022 06:07 Elentos wrote: Whoever wins is going to be exhausted going into the finals. From playing this series and then having to watch a showmatch right after.
I forgot about the showmatch lmao, hopefully the KR players took melatonin or something to sleep at local times
On November 20 2022 12:54 Vindicare605 wrote: Of course what the crowd WANTS is for Maru vs Serral to be the finals. Since we are so frequently robbed of that, and considering what kind of event this is, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we're going to get Bunny vs herO in the finals, with Bunny winning 4-3.
I didn't want to be right. But I had a feeling this was going to happen.
On November 20 2022 12:54 Vindicare605 wrote: Of course what the crowd WANTS is for Maru vs Serral to be the finals. Since we are so frequently robbed of that, and considering what kind of event this is, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we're going to get Bunny vs herO in the finals, with Bunny winning 4-3.
I didn't want to be right. But I had a feeling this was going to happen.
I hope you're right about Bunny winning too! herO's play against Maru didn't look perfect, I think Bunny has a chance if he buckles down in the early game.
On November 21 2022 04:07 tigera6 wrote: A non-Zerg winning DH Global offline tournament? Oh now they gonna have another excuse to nerf the map pool into IEM,
Oh absolutely. Heck I'm expecting half of reddit to start saying that zerg needs a buff
Of course Zergs needs a buff. After years of terrans buffs it’s about time
When players such as cure and bunny are winning championships the race needs a nerf.
When players such as elazer, Lambo, solar, etc are winning championships then we can talk about a Zerg nerf
But most of all my Protoss brothers need a buff
comparing the 2nd and 3rd best terran to the 4th to 6th best Zerg. Not to mention Bunny and Cure have combined won one championship
What did cure accomplished before the terran buff? Magically he won a GSL right after the patch. And went back to being irreverent straight after that championship.
Bunny lol. He was a pure gatekeeper similar to solar. Now all a sudden he is one of the best in the world?
Terrans fans always make me chuckle
What’s the terran fan base gonna tell us next? That gumiho is a championship contender every tournament
Why does motherfucking Maru have to be such good friends with all of his rivals?! they all know him too well. They always bring some dumb shit that shouldn't beat him but does.
On November 21 2022 06:16 Argonauta wrote: I don't know if my stomach can handle 2 PvT in a row... I would have much prefer a TvT. Bunny is the only Terran to win vs Maru.
Yeah I think Bunny would have beaten Maru and proved everyone wrong but sadly he has to defeat herO for the Clem - Serral - herO magical run
On November 21 2022 08:14 Die4Ever wrote: So should Bunny just do 3 reaper opening every game?
It works very well to counter what herO likes to do. herO never goes for safe macro openers. He's always doing some kind of cheeky shit that 2 rax Reaper punishes in one way or another.
On November 21 2022 08:27 tigera6 wrote: If Bunny win this tournament, I would put him ahead of Clem , sorry.
He was already ahead of Clem. Clem has/had better TvZ, but that seems to have closed up. Clem has/had roughly equal TvP, but that now seems to be Bunny favored. But Bunny has much better TvT, and has had much better TvT for a while.
When two players are roughly equal in 2/3 match ups but one of them is considerably better in the third, then player with the better mirror play is better.
Clem is lucky he plays in EU where his weak TvT never gets exploited. Bunny meanwhile has to die to Maru on the regular.
On November 21 2022 08:21 SEB2610 wrote: Not blink?
herO's broke. Bunny was in his natural for too long he can't afford to make units, and tech to Storm and Blink at the same time.
Already had 5 stalkers out (or was it 4?) and blink only costs 50/50 more than zealot legs which he was getting
herO was investing in Storm. Storm without Charge is almost worthless. Given a choice between Blink and Charge if you're going for Storm and Archons, you take Charge 10/10 times.
On November 21 2022 08:27 tigera6 wrote: If Bunny win this tournament, I would put him ahead of Clem , sorry.
He's already ahead of Clem. Clem has/had better TvZ, but that seems to have closed up. Clem has/had roughly equal TvP, but that now seems to be Bunny favored. But Bunny has much better TvT, and has had much better TvT for a while.
When two players are roughly equal in 2/3 match ups but one of them is considerably better in the third, then player with the better mirror play is better.
Clem is lucky he plays in EU where his relatively weak TvT never gets exploited. Bunny meanwhile has to die to Maru on the regular.
Bunny is the only terran with a positive record vs Maru this year apparently: us terrans have found a new deity to worship, let’s bow to Bunny 🐰
On November 21 2022 08:27 tigera6 wrote: If Bunny win this tournament, I would put him ahead of Clem , sorry.
He's already ahead of Clem. Clem has/had better TvZ, but that seems to have closed up. Clem has/had roughly equal TvP, but that now seems to be Bunny favored. But Bunny has much better TvT, and has had much better TvT for a while.
When two players are roughly equal in 2/3 match ups but one of them is considerably better in the third, then player with the better mirror play is better.
Clem is lucky he plays in EU where his relatively weak TvT never gets exploited. Bunny meanwhile has to die to Maru on the regular.
Bunny is the only terran with a positive record vs Maru this year apparently: us terrans have found a new deity to worship, let’s bow to Bunny 🐰
I never bow to the current hotness when it comes to Terran players. I know who I like. Bunny is hot and he's FINALLY getting the credit he deserves from the foreign scene which is LONG overdue.
On November 21 2022 08:27 tigera6 wrote: If Bunny win this tournament, I would put him ahead of Clem , sorry.
He was already ahead of Clem. Clem has/had better TvZ, but that seems to have closed up. Clem has/had roughly equal TvP, but that now seems to be Bunny favored. But Bunny has much better TvT, and has had much better TvT for a while.
When two players are roughly equal in 2/3 match ups but one of them is considerably better in the third, then player with the better mirror play is better.
Clem is lucky he plays in EU where his weak TvT never gets exploited. Bunny meanwhile has to die to Maru on the regular.
Clem's overhyped because of his good record against Serral/Reynor. Still, without a breakout offline performance I don't think you can be considered a true top dog.
On November 21 2022 08:27 tigera6 wrote: If Bunny win this tournament, I would put him ahead of Clem , sorry.
He's already ahead of Clem. Clem has/had better TvZ, but that seems to have closed up. Clem has/had roughly equal TvP, but that now seems to be Bunny favored. But Bunny has much better TvT, and has had much better TvT for a while.
When two players are roughly equal in 2/3 match ups but one of them is considerably better in the third, then player with the better mirror play is better.
Clem is lucky he plays in EU where his relatively weak TvT never gets exploited. Bunny meanwhile has to die to Maru on the regular.
Bunny is the only terran with a positive record vs Maru this year apparently: us terrans have found a new deity to worship, let’s bow to Bunny 🐰
I never bow to the current hotness when it comes to Terran players. I know who I like. Bunny is hot and he's FINALLY getting the credit he deserves from the foreign scene which is LONG overdue.
But Maru is still the superior player.
That’s the problem with Maru, he is other worldly so if you try to compare him to other players you just know nobody has played as incredible StarCraft for so long. But still, Bunny is a credible candidate for Katowice championship after this DH imo
On November 21 2022 08:27 tigera6 wrote: If Bunny win this tournament, I would put him ahead of Clem , sorry.
He was already ahead of Clem. Clem has/had better TvZ, but that seems to have closed up. Clem has/had roughly equal TvP, but that now seems to be Bunny favored. But Bunny has much better TvT, and has had much better TvT for a while.
When two players are roughly equal in 2/3 match ups but one of them is considerably better in the third, then player with the better mirror play is better.
Clem is lucky he plays in EU where his weak TvT never gets exploited. Bunny meanwhile has to die to Maru on the regular.
Clem's overhyped because of his good record against Serral/Reynor, plus he's clearly very talented. Still, without a breakout offline performance I don't think you can be considered a true top dog.
Don't get me wrong, Clem is EXCEPTIONAL for his age. He's a true prodigy in the vein of Reynor. The best of the new generation. He has plenty of time to take the crown of top dog for himself. But he's not there yet.
His TvZ is world class. He can beat any Zerg in the world but his other two match ups are big question marks, especially his TvT. Has been the case since he first blew up.
It just doesn't matter in the EU scene because the only top quality players you have to worry about in EU are Zergs. So being elite vs Zerg is all you really need to win in the EU scene. Being simply pro level in the other match ups is enough.
Unfortunately in this community. Anyone that's good in the EU scene automatically gets blown up to be the best in the world, because Europeans are like that. Events like this are a nice reminder of how far he has to go if he really wants to claim the title of actual best in the world.
On November 21 2022 08:27 tigera6 wrote: If Bunny win this tournament, I would put him ahead of Clem , sorry.
He's already ahead of Clem. Clem has/had better TvZ, but that seems to have closed up. Clem has/had roughly equal TvP, but that now seems to be Bunny favored. But Bunny has much better TvT, and has had much better TvT for a while.
When two players are roughly equal in 2/3 match ups but one of them is considerably better in the third, then player with the better mirror play is better.
Clem is lucky he plays in EU where his relatively weak TvT never gets exploited. Bunny meanwhile has to die to Maru on the regular.
Bunny is the only terran with a positive record vs Maru this year apparently: us terrans have found a new deity to worship, let’s bow to Bunny 🐰
I never bow to the current hotness when it comes to Terran players. I know who I like. Bunny is hot and he's FINALLY getting the credit he deserves from the foreign scene which is LONG overdue.
But Maru is still the superior player.
That’s the problem with Maru, he is other worldly so if you try to compare him to other players you just know nobody has played as incredible StarCraft for so long. But still, Bunny is a credible candidate for Katowice championship after this DH imo
That's the difference with me I guess. Bunny's DH performance isn't that remarkable to me. He's simply validating what I've already known he was capable of. If he hadn't blown up this tournament he was going to blow up Katowice. He was due.
Is he the next Horseman or is he the next Cure? Good enough to blow up for a while then fade back to the second tier of Terrans.
Grats to herO though a bit of an easy path. Between all that he accomplished in the kespa era and this resurgence winning here and GSL how much more would he need to win to be a protoss goat candidate?
Grats herO, basically almost threw the series when it could have been a easy 4-0. Glad bunny didn’t win, literally a one trick pony the whole series with his 2 base all in. Reminds me of reynor losing to Clem
Bunny definitely made herO work for every bit of that. Great series. herO made some fantastic mid series adjustments, it's super impressive how he can both look super solid in his prep but also in his mental game mid series. Dude's a monster.
I hate to say it, but this is the kind of thing that Trap lacked. If Trap had gone down in this series like this, he wouldn't have come back.
I'm so sad for Bunny. Don't get me wrong I really like herO but this tournament would have been a better story with Bunny win in the end (and a better run). Congratulations to him, heartbroken for Bunny. He will probably not be able to repeat this run in the rest of his career :/ I really wished so hard for him
Its interesting to note that, with this tournament win, herO has the highest EPT points (3pt more than Maru) with ST2, HSC22 and a couple of weekly left. I am not sure how this would impact the seeding though, somehow the No.1 seed into IEM always had the toughest group in recent memory.
On November 21 2022 09:06 JJH777 wrote: Grats to herO though a bit of an easy path. Between all that he accomplished in the kespa era and this resurgence winning here and GSL how much more would he need to win to be a protoss goat candidate?
A lot.
He's lacking a lot in terms of big championships compared to the biggest Protoss winners in SC2. And while he's on top NOW, he's also lacking greatly in terms of competition from Protoss teammates. The pool of players playing Protoss has never been weaker.
So you gotta put those two things together. herO would need to win a lot more as the sole Protoss hope to separate himself and make a clear case that he's the best of all time.
On November 21 2022 09:10 TaKeTV wrote: I'm so sad for Bunny. Don't get me wrong I really like herO but this tournament would have been a better story with Bunny win in the end (and a better run). Congratulations to him, heartbroken for Bunny. He will probably not be able to repeat this run in the rest of his career :/ I really wished so hard for him
- naruto
same. But herO is lovable as well and played incredible after going down 1-3. It's sad, very sad for Bunny, but far from undeserved for herO
On November 21 2022 09:10 TaKeTV wrote: I'm so sad for Bunny. Don't get me wrong I really like herO but this tournament would have been a better story with Bunny win in the end (and a better run). Congratulations to him, heartbroken for Bunny. He will probably not be able to repeat this run in the rest of his career :/ I really wished so hard for him
- naruto
Nah don't worry. It looks like Bunny is gonna be hanging around for a while. He'll have more chances.
On November 21 2022 09:10 TaKeTV wrote: I'm so sad for Bunny. Don't get me wrong I really like herO but this tournament would have been a better story with Bunny win in the end (and a better run). Congratulations to him, heartbroken for Bunny. He will probably not be able to repeat this run in the rest of his career :/ I really wished so hard for him
- naruto
Nah don't worry. It looks like Bunny is gonna be hanging around for a while. He'll have more chances.
Yeah, Bunny's been on the rise for a while. He should have some more chances at a trophy.
On November 21 2022 09:07 Husyelt wrote: Excellent final day. Fantastic comeback. Congrats to Bunny and her0 honestly. Does anyone know why ro4 wasnt b07?
Yeah I was wondering about that too. I honestly wish it was even though the guys I wanted won.
On November 21 2022 09:10 TaKeTV wrote: I'm so sad for Bunny. Don't get me wrong I really like herO but this tournament would have been a better story with Bunny win in the end (and a better run). Congratulations to him, heartbroken for Bunny. He will probably not be able to repeat this run in the rest of his career :/ I really wished so hard for him
- naruto
Nah don't worry. It looks like Bunny is gonna be hanging around for a while. He'll have more chances.
Yeah, Bunny's been on the rise for a while. He should have some more chances at a trophy.
Bunny is 27, so yeah, he still has plenty of chances but there is a window coming.
On November 21 2022 09:10 TaKeTV wrote: I'm so sad for Bunny. Don't get me wrong I really like herO but this tournament would have been a better story with Bunny win in the end (and a better run). Congratulations to him, heartbroken for Bunny. He will probably not be able to repeat this run in the rest of his career :/ I really wished so hard for him
- naruto
I think this is just the beginning for Bunny! That’s the confidence boost he needed to realize the great things he can achieve too. Even if he lost in the end, you don’t destroy both Clem and Serral like that and remain without a trophy for too long. 3-0 vs Clem, 3-1 vs Serral and 4–1 vs herO if he won that game 5 would have been one of the most dominant runs of all time though! And one more map loss to MeomaikA almost prevented the whole thing, same as the 3-4 loss: one map can change the whole story, truly a beautiful game we are able to witness
On November 21 2022 09:06 JJH777 wrote: Grats to herO though a bit of an easy path. Between all that he accomplished in the kespa era and this resurgence winning here and GSL how much more would he need to win to be a protoss goat candidate?
A lot.
He's lacking a lot in terms of big championships compared to the biggest Protoss winners in SC2. And while he's on top NOW, he's also lacking greatly in terms of competition from Protoss teammates. The pool of players playing Protoss has never been weaker.
So you gotta put those two things together. herO would need to win a lot more as the sole Protoss hope to separate himself and make a clear case that he's the best of all time.
SSL is equivalent to GSL/OSL in terms of player pool/format/prize money and unless I'm forgetting something we don't have any Toss with more than 2 trophies from starleagues right? Modern day GSL is easier but I think there should be some bonus points for winning it while Protoss is probably the weakest race and breaking a 5 year curse. So he's somewhat equal on that front. Then it's just a matter of comparing the other stuff and herO's other trophies are pretty good. 3 IEMs, Kespa Cup, Super tournament, and now dreamhack. A few others are still ahead but I don't think it would take too much to put him over the top unless I'm forgetting a toss who's won 3 starleagues.
On November 21 2022 09:06 JJH777 wrote: Grats to herO though a bit of an easy path. Between all that he accomplished in the kespa era and this resurgence winning here and GSL how much more would he need to win to be a protoss goat candidate?
A lot.
He's lacking a lot in terms of big championships compared to the biggest Protoss winners in SC2. And while he's on top NOW, he's also lacking greatly in terms of competition from Protoss teammates. The pool of players playing Protoss has never been weaker.
So you gotta put those two things together. herO would need to win a lot more as the sole Protoss hope to separate himself and make a clear case that he's the best of all time.
It cuts both ways. On the other hand, herO looks like the ONLY protoss hope and is miles ahead any other protoss challenger, and it's been this way for about a year now. Sort of 2014 maru vibes where he's the only thing making his race not look complete trash.
Further, him being the only player in SC2 history to actually recapture peak form post-military is also an astonishing feat as well and adds to the intangibles. Byun is probably the second best military returnee and he is far below what hero has achieved (only one asus online championship very early on).
So I agree with you hero is far from being protoss goat, but maybe not tooooo far. I think if he won Katowice he could at least be in the discussion
Edit: add to this he completely saved pvz literally singlehandedly. Now that I think about it - what other player can we credit for single handedly saving a matchup in SC2 history?? Feels like it's almost bisu levels
On November 21 2022 09:10 TaKeTV wrote: I'm so sad for Bunny. Don't get me wrong I really like herO but this tournament would have been a better story with Bunny win in the end (and a better run). Congratulations to him, heartbroken for Bunny. He will probably not be able to repeat this run in the rest of his career :/ I really wished so hard for him
On November 21 2022 17:32 True_Spike wrote: Where can I watch the final? I may be blind, but I can't find the game in the Twitch archives, nor the youtube channel.
they just put up the Bunny vs Serral series on the twitch channel, I imagine they will get the other two series up soon