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On August 06 2021 00:45 Philippe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 00:32 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 06 2021 00:24 Philippe wrote:On August 06 2021 00:16 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Or ESL could use some of that $250,000 they cut from last year's Global Finals that they promised would go to future events to pay them. Yet I haven't seen any extra events compared to last year and prize pools haven't increased so where did that $250k go? I was worried when they cut it that it was a lie and seems I was right they had no outline where that money would go in the future or anything just a promise that "It would go to future events". Asus ROG isn't an event which they control, the prize pool is only on the responsibility of Assembly unless ESL or DreamHack decide to have a direct involvement unless I missed sth (and not just make the event part of the EPT circuit). There's trying to convince Asus to raise the amount of money. I understand it is an event that they don't control but I feel like ESL being the managing organization for the points system and global finals could easily add prize money to any tournament they wanted to not like ASUS is gonna say no we don't want more money for the players. My whole point is there is $250,000 worth of prize money promised to Starcraft Pros in future events that to my knowledge has yet to even come into play at all. Yet we still have tournaments where half the players aren't even getting a dime for participating. I understand your points but I feel like what I asked for isn't unreasonable at all. I honestly believe that ESL owes the community and players and explanation for where that money went because it was supposed to go to players at some point yet it hasn't. Oh sure, part of these 250000 bucks could have easily been split between all the existing regional events. What makes it worse is the base prize pool having been currently lowered rather than raised (for example last year DH Summer EU had a 84,000 dollar prize pool, this year it's only 74,000 or for NA, 38,000 to 33,600. I wonder the justification there. So while I was just outlining my (not so) educated guess on how this likely works, I do agree with you on a personal level.
Exactly prize pools are going down not up like if they overestimated their ability to pay out that amount in prize money per year on their 3 year deal with Blizzard then they should just be honest and say it and just say the money isn't there it never was or something like that any explanation is better than no explanation cause right now they just look like liars who are hoping everyone will forget about it at some point with this promise of putting it towards future events cause that clearly isn't happening.
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On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me
Half of the players are invited. They could skip the tourney and still make a buck without playing a single match if they'd change the distribution like you suggest. 
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On August 06 2021 03:17 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Half of the players are invited. They could skip the tourney and still make a buck without playing a single match if they'd change the distribution like you suggest.
Forfeiting the match in general also means forfeiting the price money.
I would expect the same for starcraft tournament as well.
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On August 06 2021 03:17 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Half of the players are invited. They could skip the tourney and still make a buck without playing a single match if they'd change the distribution like you suggest.
Invited players are usually good players with good chance to finish in top 4, why would they forfeit?
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On August 06 2021 00:52 Nostromo1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 00:45 Philippe wrote:On August 06 2021 00:32 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 06 2021 00:24 Philippe wrote:On August 06 2021 00:16 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Or ESL could use some of that $250,000 they cut from last year's Global Finals that they promised would go to future events to pay them. Yet I haven't seen any extra events compared to last year and prize pools haven't increased so where did that $250k go? I was worried when they cut it that it was a lie and seems I was right they had no outline where that money would go in the future or anything just a promise that "It would go to future events". Asus ROG isn't an event which they control, the prize pool is only on the responsibility of Assembly unless ESL or DreamHack decide to have a direct involvement unless I missed sth (and not just make the event part of the EPT circuit). There's trying to convince Asus to raise the amount of money. I understand it is an event that they don't control but I feel like ESL being the managing organization for the points system and global finals could easily add prize money to any tournament they wanted to not like ASUS is gonna say no we don't want more money for the players. My whole point is there is $250,000 worth of prize money promised to Starcraft Pros in future events that to my knowledge has yet to even come into play at all. Yet we still have tournaments where half the players aren't even getting a dime for participating. I understand your points but I feel like what I asked for isn't unreasonable at all. I honestly believe that ESL owes the community and players and explanation for where that money went because it was supposed to go to players at some point yet it hasn't. Oh sure, part of these 250000 bucks could have easily been split between all the existing regional events. What makes it worse is the base prize pool having been currently lowered rather than raised (for example last year DH Summer EU had a 84,000 dollar prize pool, this year it's only 74,000 or for NA, 38,000 to 33,600. I wonder the justification there. So while I was just outlining my (not so) educated guess on how this likely works, I do agree with you on a personal level. Exactly prize pools are going down not up like if they overestimated their ability to pay out that amount in prize money per year on their 3 year deal with Blizzard then they should just be honest and say it and just say the money isn't there it never was or something like that any explanation is better than no explanation cause right now they just look like liars who are hoping everyone will forget about it at some point with this promise of putting it towards future events cause that clearly isn't happening.
Yeah, this is an interesting points, we all know that there are 3mil dollars of prize money to be distributed through 3 years of competition. That means on average 1mil/year, and with IEM taking 500k, that leave 500k for all the DH tournaments + Last Chance. Say 50k is located for Last Chance, that leave about 150k per DH season including 6 regional and a Global tournament. That leave around 22k/ tournament which is way too low, and there is NO WAY for the total prize-pool of those seasonal tournament from last year is lower than 150k, I havent check the exact number but I am pretty sure I am right.
That is not yet including the prizepool for those EPT Weekly Cup. So yeah, I think ESL totallly F up their prize money scheme and end up using the IEM prizepool to correct their damn mistake this year.
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On August 06 2021 00:16 Nostromo1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Or ESL could use some of that $250,000 they cut from last year's Global Finals that they promised would go to future events to pay them. Yet I haven't seen any extra events compared to last year and prize pools haven't increased so where did that $250k go? I was worried when they cut it that it was a lie and seems I was right they had no outline where that money would go in the future or anything just a promise that "It would go to future events".
they meant future events in 2035
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On August 06 2021 15:48 select_clothes1444 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 00:16 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Or ESL could use some of that $250,000 they cut from last year's Global Finals that they promised would go to future events to pay them. Yet I haven't seen any extra events compared to last year and prize pools haven't increased so where did that $250k go? I was worried when they cut it that it was a lie and seems I was right they had no outline where that money would go in the future or anything just a promise that "It would go to future events". they meant future events in 2035
I m pretty sure somewhere they said the ll put it into offline tournaments
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On August 06 2021 00:45 Philippe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 00:32 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 06 2021 00:24 Philippe wrote:On August 06 2021 00:16 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Or ESL could use some of that $250,000 they cut from last year's Global Finals that they promised would go to future events to pay them. Yet I haven't seen any extra events compared to last year and prize pools haven't increased so where did that $250k go? I was worried when they cut it that it was a lie and seems I was right they had no outline where that money would go in the future or anything just a promise that "It would go to future events". Asus ROG isn't an event which they control, the prize pool is only on the responsibility of Assembly unless ESL or DreamHack decide to have a direct involvement unless I missed sth (and not just make the event part of the EPT circuit). There's trying to convince Asus to raise the amount of money. I understand it is an event that they don't control but I feel like ESL being the managing organization for the points system and global finals could easily add prize money to any tournament they wanted to not like ASUS is gonna say no we don't want more money for the players. My whole point is there is $250,000 worth of prize money promised to Starcraft Pros in future events that to my knowledge has yet to even come into play at all. Yet we still have tournaments where half the players aren't even getting a dime for participating. I understand your points but I feel like what I asked for isn't unreasonable at all. I honestly believe that ESL owes the community and players and explanation for where that money went because it was supposed to go to players at some point yet it hasn't. Oh sure, part of these 250000 bucks could have easily been split between all the existing regional events. What makes it worse is the base prize pool having been currently lowered rather than raised (for example last year DH Summer EU had a 84,000 dollar prize pool, this year it's only 74,000 or for NA, 38,000 to 33,600. I wonder the justification there. The justification for prize pools dropping from 2020 to 2021 has been in place since the ESL Pro Tour was announced - 2020 was the 10 year anniversary of SC2, so extra money was put into all non-Katowice tournaments. We knew from the start it was gonna drop in 2021, had Katowice not been online the drop would have been much worse.
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Think its slightly weird that a Major has the same EPT point allocation as a Premier.
Also half the spots are invites, lame.
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On August 06 2021 23:30 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 00:45 Philippe wrote:On August 06 2021 00:32 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 06 2021 00:24 Philippe wrote:On August 06 2021 00:16 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Or ESL could use some of that $250,000 they cut from last year's Global Finals that they promised would go to future events to pay them. Yet I haven't seen any extra events compared to last year and prize pools haven't increased so where did that $250k go? I was worried when they cut it that it was a lie and seems I was right they had no outline where that money would go in the future or anything just a promise that "It would go to future events". Asus ROG isn't an event which they control, the prize pool is only on the responsibility of Assembly unless ESL or DreamHack decide to have a direct involvement unless I missed sth (and not just make the event part of the EPT circuit). There's trying to convince Asus to raise the amount of money. I understand it is an event that they don't control but I feel like ESL being the managing organization for the points system and global finals could easily add prize money to any tournament they wanted to not like ASUS is gonna say no we don't want more money for the players. My whole point is there is $250,000 worth of prize money promised to Starcraft Pros in future events that to my knowledge has yet to even come into play at all. Yet we still have tournaments where half the players aren't even getting a dime for participating. I understand your points but I feel like what I asked for isn't unreasonable at all. I honestly believe that ESL owes the community and players and explanation for where that money went because it was supposed to go to players at some point yet it hasn't. Oh sure, part of these 250000 bucks could have easily been split between all the existing regional events. What makes it worse is the base prize pool having been currently lowered rather than raised (for example last year DH Summer EU had a 84,000 dollar prize pool, this year it's only 74,000 or for NA, 38,000 to 33,600. I wonder the justification there. The justification for prize pools dropping from 2020 to 2021 has been in place since the ESL Pro Tour was announced - 2020 was the 10 year anniversary of SC2, so extra money was put into all non-Katowice tournaments. We knew from the start it was gonna drop in 2021, had Katowice not been online the drop would have been much worse.
Saw the announcement about the EPT circuit but forgot about the info about the prize money. Sounds logical but given the circumstances it's not something some in this topic might be willing to hear.
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On August 07 2021 09:26 Aeceus wrote:
Think its slightly weird that a Major has the same EPT point allocation as a Premier.
Also half the spots are invites, lame.
I think its all a Major only because of the prizepool, its no difference from any other Premiere in term of roster and tournament format.
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On August 06 2021 05:31 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 03:17 BaneRiders wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Half of the players are invited. They could skip the tourney and still make a buck without playing a single match if they'd change the distribution like you suggest. Forfeiting the match in general also means forfeiting the price money. I would expect the same for starcraft tournament as well.
They could play, but wholeheartedly due to whatever GSL/DH scheduling. Not saying that would happen, but in general I disapprove of handing out freebies top ranked players just because they are top ranked - Let the people who want to play the tourney fight for a spot. That being said, the latest TSL KR qualifier wasn't really a gauntlet compared to the EU qualifier. ..
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On August 06 2021 09:14 bela.mervado wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 03:17 BaneRiders wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Half of the players are invited. They could skip the tourney and still make a buck without playing a single match if they'd change the distribution like you suggest. Invited players are usually good players with good chance to finish in top 4, why would they forfeit?
Because other tournaments?
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On August 08 2021 02:30 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 05:31 dbRic1203 wrote:On August 06 2021 03:17 BaneRiders wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Half of the players are invited. They could skip the tourney and still make a buck without playing a single match if they'd change the distribution like you suggest. Forfeiting the match in general also means forfeiting the price money. I would expect the same for starcraft tournament as well. They could play, but wholeheartedly due to whatever GSL/DH scheduling. Not saying that would happen, but in general I disapprove of handing out freebies top ranked players just because they are top ranked - Let the people who want to play the tourney fight for a spot. That being said, the latest TSL KR qualifier wasn't really a gauntlet compared to the EU qualifier. ..
Expanding on what I was saying earlier, the 2015 Edition was more than 50 percent of invites.
2014 Edition : 26 invites, 6 qualified for a 32-player field
2013 Edition : 16-player field, 13 invites, 3 qualified
Winter 2012 : it was 32-invite only
Assembly Summer 2019 was the most "fair" in that aspect. 32 players, 19 qualified, 13 invites.
So it is still a big progress from their previous policy ... good luck trying to change their mind on this.
Wouldn't be surprised if the sponsor wants to maximize the chances of having only the very best players at the tournament rather than giving everybody a fair shake, and there's respecting that even if you don't like it.
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On August 08 2021 02:50 Philippe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2021 02:30 BaneRiders wrote:On August 06 2021 05:31 dbRic1203 wrote:On August 06 2021 03:17 BaneRiders wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Half of the players are invited. They could skip the tourney and still make a buck without playing a single match if they'd change the distribution like you suggest. Forfeiting the match in general also means forfeiting the price money. I would expect the same for starcraft tournament as well. They could play, but wholeheartedly due to whatever GSL/DH scheduling. Not saying that would happen, but in general I disapprove of handing out freebies top ranked players just because they are top ranked - Let the people who want to play the tourney fight for a spot. That being said, the latest TSL KR qualifier wasn't really a gauntlet compared to the EU qualifier. .. Expanding on what I was saying earlier, the 2015 Edition was more than 50 percent of invites. 2014 Edition : 26 invites, 6 qualified for a 32-player field 2013 Edition : 16-player field, 13 invites, 3 qualified Winter 2012 : it was 32-invite only Assembly Summer 2019 was the most "fair" in that aspect. 32 players, 19 qualified, 13 invites. So it is still a big progress from their previous policy ... good luck trying to change their mind on this. Wouldn't be surprised if the sponsor wants to maximize the chances of having only the very best players at the tournament rather than giving everybody a fair shake, and there's respecting that even if you don't like it.
I appreciate the tournament, don't get me wrong. That being said, I think it would be in the interest of the sponsors to have the most motivated players in the tourney, not players cashing in on some ez money while prepping for another tourney, but ok, we shall see who will be invited and what their performance will be. Also, now that the tourney is also given EPT(?) points, I'm sure they couldn't have more invitees than this in any case, even if they wanted to and still keep it as one of the circuit tourneys.
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Northern Ireland26772 Posts
On August 08 2021 04:28 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2021 02:50 Philippe wrote:On August 08 2021 02:30 BaneRiders wrote:On August 06 2021 05:31 dbRic1203 wrote:On August 06 2021 03:17 BaneRiders wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Half of the players are invited. They could skip the tourney and still make a buck without playing a single match if they'd change the distribution like you suggest. Forfeiting the match in general also means forfeiting the price money. I would expect the same for starcraft tournament as well. They could play, but wholeheartedly due to whatever GSL/DH scheduling. Not saying that would happen, but in general I disapprove of handing out freebies top ranked players just because they are top ranked - Let the people who want to play the tourney fight for a spot. That being said, the latest TSL KR qualifier wasn't really a gauntlet compared to the EU qualifier. .. Expanding on what I was saying earlier, the 2015 Edition was more than 50 percent of invites. 2014 Edition : 26 invites, 6 qualified for a 32-player field 2013 Edition : 16-player field, 13 invites, 3 qualified Winter 2012 : it was 32-invite only Assembly Summer 2019 was the most "fair" in that aspect. 32 players, 19 qualified, 13 invites. So it is still a big progress from their previous policy ... good luck trying to change their mind on this. Wouldn't be surprised if the sponsor wants to maximize the chances of having only the very best players at the tournament rather than giving everybody a fair shake, and there's respecting that even if you don't like it. I appreciate the tournament, don't get me wrong. That being said, I think it would be in the interest of the sponsors to have the most motivated players in the tourney, not players cashing in on some ez money while prepping for another tourney, but ok, we shall see who will be invited and what their performance will be. Also, now that the tourney is also given EPT(?) points, I'm sure they couldn't have more invitees than this in any case, even if they wanted to and still keep it as one of the circuit tourneys.
I doubt it, I’d imagine people are much more likely to tune in if it’s big Korean names and Reynor/Serral/Clem etc are all there.
I’m just not a fan of invites when EPT points are a thing and they feed into further opportunities. You may as well just make it a top EPT rank set of invites, at least it’s been earned and could be said to be a legitimate method of qualification based on consistent performance.
My misgivings are mostly theoretical, the top players in Europe/Latin America especially tend to be absolutely miles ahead of the competition for Katowice, so invites haven’t really affected that race.
Doesn’t mean they couldn’t sometime, and it would really suck if player x got in over player y based on getting a bunch of invites that the latter player didn’t.
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Germany339 Posts
On August 06 2021 00:52 Nostromo1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 00:45 Philippe wrote:On August 06 2021 00:32 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 06 2021 00:24 Philippe wrote:On August 06 2021 00:16 Nostromo1 wrote:On August 05 2021 02:52 dbRic1203 wrote:
Once again, only half of the players gets some $$.
I realy wish, they would take like 1k of from 1st and 500 of from 2nd and spread it to the bottom 8 finishers.
5k
2.5k
1.5k
750
250
125
would allready look way way better, if you ask me Or ESL could use some of that $250,000 they cut from last year's Global Finals that they promised would go to future events to pay them. Yet I haven't seen any extra events compared to last year and prize pools haven't increased so where did that $250k go? I was worried when they cut it that it was a lie and seems I was right they had no outline where that money would go in the future or anything just a promise that "It would go to future events". Asus ROG isn't an event which they control, the prize pool is only on the responsibility of Assembly unless ESL or DreamHack decide to have a direct involvement unless I missed sth (and not just make the event part of the EPT circuit). There's trying to convince Asus to raise the amount of money. I understand it is an event that they don't control but I feel like ESL being the managing organization for the points system and global finals could easily add prize money to any tournament they wanted to not like ASUS is gonna say no we don't want more money for the players. My whole point is there is $250,000 worth of prize money promised to Starcraft Pros in future events that to my knowledge has yet to even come into play at all. Yet we still have tournaments where half the players aren't even getting a dime for participating. I understand your points but I feel like what I asked for isn't unreasonable at all. I honestly believe that ESL owes the community and players and explanation for where that money went because it was supposed to go to players at some point yet it hasn't. Oh sure, part of these 250000 bucks could have easily been split between all the existing regional events. What makes it worse is the base prize pool having been currently lowered rather than raised (for example last year DH Summer EU had a 84,000 dollar prize pool, this year it's only 74,000 or for NA, 38,000 to 33,600. I wonder the justification there. So while I was just outlining my (not so) educated guess on how this likely works, I do agree with you on a personal level. Exactly prize pools are going down not up like if they overestimated their ability to pay out that amount in prize money per year on their 3 year deal with Blizzard then they should just be honest and say it and just say the money isn't there it never was or something like that any explanation is better than no explanation cause right now they just look like liars who are hoping everyone will forget about it at some point with this promise of putting it towards future events cause that clearly isn't happening.
Actually it was always announced at the start of the SC2 EPT that for the first year they got a significant money boost
In total the money they got from Blizz to run the EPT was ~$4M, from which ~$1.8M were intended for the first year.
They cut 250k of that from IEM Katowice 2021 and redistributed (imo giving way too much to the low tier regions) that money towards the DHM events for this and next year. (see announcement of reallocation)
see the official announcement of the SC2 EPT here (the in the article mentioned 4.6M are combined SC2&WC3 EPT)
and see the prize money distr. pre Corona on LP (it also indicates how much of the money was added due to the prize money boost)
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Germany339 Posts
On August 07 2021 15:07 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2021 09:26 Aeceus wrote:
Think its slightly weird that a Major has the same EPT point allocation as a Premier.
Also half the spots are invites, lame. I think its all a Major only because of the prizepool, its no difference from any other Premiere in term of roster and tournament format.
In terms of Liquipedia tier the amount of invites is also a factor and the high percentage of invites is one of the reasons this event is Tier 2 and not Tier 1.
This event barely meets the minimum criteria of $15k, but it only meets 1 of the 5 secondary criteria of which 3 have to be met.
We already softened those criteria early last year due to corona but this event still isn't Tier 1 (Premier).
You can find our criteria here.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://tl.net/images/flags2/kr.png)
![[image loading]](https://tl.net/images/flags2/fr.png)
![[image loading]](https://tl.net/images/flags2/it.png)
![[image loading]](https://tl.net/images/flags2/us.png)
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