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On August 04 2018 21:18 Soularion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:16 Elentos wrote:On August 04 2018 21:11 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:09 Fango wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote:
The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. TY and Maru would certainly be more impressive. Stats is up there as well. You really think TY would be more impressive than INno? Personally I think INno - especially an on-form INno, which people were thinking this was until Serral smacked him - is a good test of if Serral can defend and defeat consistent well-played pressure in early-mid pushes which was his big issue last year. Now you do have some late-game concerns (more question marks than concerns, really) and I would've liked to see him play Maru for that, but he did show new stuff and I was happy to see it. My opinion on Inno's form is that he is currently worse than he was at any point in 2017. I think that, and him still being a competent player who is good at brute forcing the opposition, can both be true. Obviously he's not a world-beater, but his style of play does work against people who are ill-prepared, and even Serral's ability to so utterly defeat it makes me less worried for his ZvT. Big questions are just late-game ZvT and if his ZvP is still as good (which honestly could be answered vs Stats, but at the same time a lot of top koreans apparently suck at PvZ, so who really knows.)
To be honest I think Inno has reached a point where his mechanics are slowly deteriorating and he can't bludgeon people as easily. But if you give him long enough to prepare for a specific player he'd probably find some really hideous builds that can make up for that.
Stats vs Serral should be good. Stats is generally insecure about his PvZ, but he's been on average the best in the world at it in LotV. Hope we get some nice late games.
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We're witnessing the end of Korean supremacy in sc2. A sad day.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote:
The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets  IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself.
For foreigners to revive their scene the REGION LOCK came in place. Koreans don't have teams no more, Koreans are region locked and their Leagues are plundered(edit> meh, i hope you know what i mean, don't know how's this word writte  ) by foreigners.
How?!!! How is supposed the Korean SC2 scene revive themselves under these conditions?
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On August 04 2018 21:23 royalroadweed wrote:
We're witnessing the end of Korean supremacy in sc2. A sad day.
Like when Neeb won KeSPA Cup? And once a Korean wins Blizzcon the supremacy is suddenly back? I dunno Kev
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On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote:
The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself.
The non-Korean scene did not revive or sustain itself either, it was put on life support by Blizzard until it could finally breathe again.
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On August 04 2018 21:23 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote:
The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. For foreigners to revive their scene the REGION LOCK came in place. Koreans don't have teams no more, Koreans are region locked and their Leagues are plundered(edit> meh, i hope you know what i mean, don't know how's this word writte ) by foreigners. How?!!! How is supposed the Korean SC2 scene revive themselves under these conditions?
Maybe they region lock Korea next year. Next year's WCS is completely unannounced. Korea doesn't really have any new blood at the moment, though, and that's probably the biggest issue. That's something that wouldn't be solved by region locking Korea as the scene is still deep enough and money put high enough that a new comer couldn't really sustain themselves even if foreigners weren't taking a few spots.
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On August 04 2018 21:25 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote:
The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. The non-Korean scene did not revive or sustain itself either, it was put on life support by Blizzard until it could finally breathe again.
But that life support has allowed it to revive and sustain itself significantly better than before.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 04 2018 21:26 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:23 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote:
The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. For foreigners to revive their scene the REGION LOCK came in place. Koreans don't have teams no more, Koreans are region locked and their Leagues are plundered(edit> meh, i hope you know what i mean, don't know how's this word writte ) by foreigners. How?!!! How is supposed the Korean SC2 scene revive themselves under these conditions? Maybe they region lock Korea next year. Next year's WCS is completely unannounced. Korea doesn't really have any new blood at the moment, though, and that's probably the biggest issue. That's something that wouldn't be solved by region locking Korea as the scene is still deep enough and money put high enough that a new comer couldn't really sustain themselves even if foreigners weren't taking a few spots.
But it would generate 2 - 4 places in ro32 and 0 - 2 spots in ro16. Is that enough? Doubt it, but it is a help to the Korean scene. Korean scene cannot revive when foreigners are invading it.
Edit> While I hate region lock currently I don't see any other solution than that. Region locking Korea is the first step. Opening both worlds won't help as Koreans don't have the money to travel abroad and their ping is questionable at best so they would be able to play only on NA servers anyway. That would result only in rich getting richer.
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On August 04 2018 21:27 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:25 Elentos wrote:On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote:
The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. The non-Korean scene did not revive or sustain itself either, it was put on life support by Blizzard until it could finally breathe again. But that life support has allowed it to revive and sustain itself significantly better than before.
Isn't it still on life support? Serral is just 1 guy.
Let's test it and end region lock next year
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On August 04 2018 21:23 royalroadweed wrote:
We're witnessing the end of Korean supremacy in sc2. A sad day.
Nah for that the other non koreans would have to get on serral's level
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On August 04 2018 21:26 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:23 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote:
The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. For foreigners to revive their scene the REGION LOCK came in place. Koreans don't have teams no more, Koreans are region locked and their Leagues are plundered(edit> meh, i hope you know what i mean, don't know how's this word writte ) by foreigners. How?!!! How is supposed the Korean SC2 scene revive themselves under these conditions? Maybe they region lock Korea next year. Next year's WCS is completely unannounced. Korea doesn't really have any new blood at the moment, though, and that's probably the biggest issue. That's something that wouldn't be solved by region locking Korea as the scene is still deep enough and money put high enough that a new comer couldn't really sustain themselves even if foreigners weren't taking a few spots.
The lower end of players we would consider Korean "pro-gamers" that could make Code S is low enough for some amateurs to be able to beat them. They exist, but most of them never qualify for anything. If they had better chances (for example, by virtue of removing 20 foreign pro-gamers from the qualifier brackets), maybe there would be some growth.
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On August 04 2018 21:30 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:27 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:25 Elentos wrote:On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:
[quote]
I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. The non-Korean scene did not revive or sustain itself either, it was put on life support by Blizzard until it could finally breathe again. But that life support has allowed it to revive and sustain itself significantly better than before. Isn't it still on life support? Serral is just 1 guy. Let's test it and end region lock next year
Yeah I feel like both scenes are on life support. There aren't any new players coming in whether foreign or korean
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 04 2018 21:30 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:26 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:23 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:
[quote]
I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. For foreigners to revive their scene the REGION LOCK came in place. Koreans don't have teams no more, Koreans are region locked and their Leagues are plundered(edit> meh, i hope you know what i mean, don't know how's this word writte ) by foreigners. How?!!! How is supposed the Korean SC2 scene revive themselves under these conditions? Maybe they region lock Korea next year. Next year's WCS is completely unannounced. Korea doesn't really have any new blood at the moment, though, and that's probably the biggest issue. That's something that wouldn't be solved by region locking Korea as the scene is still deep enough and money put high enough that a new comer couldn't really sustain themselves even if foreigners weren't taking a few spots. The lower end of players we would consider Korean "pro-gamers" that could make Code S is low enough for some amateurs to be able to beat them. They exist, but most of them never qualify for anything. If they had better chances (for example, by virtue of removing 20 foreign pro-gamers from the qualifier brackets), maybe there would be some growth.
I believe it will be too late if they don't region lock the next year. There are other games where they have better chances and Korea suffered for way too long. IMO
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On August 04 2018 21:21 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:18 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:16 Elentos wrote:On August 04 2018 21:11 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:09 Fango wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote:
The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. TY and Maru would certainly be more impressive. Stats is up there as well. You really think TY would be more impressive than INno? Personally I think INno - especially an on-form INno, which people were thinking this was until Serral smacked him - is a good test of if Serral can defend and defeat consistent well-played pressure in early-mid pushes which was his big issue last year. Now you do have some late-game concerns (more question marks than concerns, really) and I would've liked to see him play Maru for that, but he did show new stuff and I was happy to see it. My opinion on Inno's form is that he is currently worse than he was at any point in 2017. I think that, and him still being a competent player who is good at brute forcing the opposition, can both be true. Obviously he's not a world-beater, but his style of play does work against people who are ill-prepared, and even Serral's ability to so utterly defeat it makes me less worried for his ZvT. Big questions are just late-game ZvT and if his ZvP is still as good (which honestly could be answered vs Stats, but at the same time a lot of top koreans apparently suck at PvZ, so who really knows.) To be honest I think Inno has reached a point where his mechanics are slowly deteriorating and he can't bludgeon people as easily. But if you give him long enough to prepare for a specific player he'd probably find some really hideous builds that can make up for that.
You'd probably say the same at times in 2014, 2016 etc. You never know if he's gonna win GSL next season then not qualify the season after (it's happened).
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On August 04 2018 21:31 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:30 Penev wrote:On August 04 2018 21:27 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:25 Elentos wrote:On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:
[quote]
Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value.
I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. The non-Korean scene did not revive or sustain itself either, it was put on life support by Blizzard until it could finally breathe again. But that life support has allowed it to revive and sustain itself significantly better than before. Isn't it still on life support? Serral is just 1 guy. Let's test it and end region lock next year Yeah I feel like both scenes are on life support. There aren't any new players coming in whether foreign or korean
Hmm talking about life support, has Blizzard said anything about the next few years yet? The last concrete statements I recall were about supporting up to 2018.
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On August 04 2018 21:31 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:30 Penev wrote:On August 04 2018 21:27 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:25 Elentos wrote:On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:
[quote]
Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value.
I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. The non-Korean scene did not revive or sustain itself either, it was put on life support by Blizzard until it could finally breathe again. But that life support has allowed it to revive and sustain itself significantly better than before. Isn't it still on life support? Serral is just 1 guy. Let's test it and end region lock next year Yeah I feel like both scenes are on life support. There aren't any new players coming in whether foreign or korean
Clem & Reynor
The WCS scene definitely has better opportunity for new talent to make a splash. In Korea if you don't qualify you're out. In WCS if you don't qualify you book a flight. And pray Dreamhack doesn't arbitrarily skip you on the waiting list.
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if serral beats stats I think he dethrones maru for highest overall aligulac rating of all time
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On August 04 2018 21:30 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:27 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:25 Elentos wrote:On August 04 2018 21:20 Parrek wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:
[quote]
I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO I don't think people pretend everything is fine. Just they realize that Korea has to sustain itself and until it does that, what's done is done. It'd be fun to see more Korean events next year when they revise the system (since I'm really confident they won't shrink or drop us with the massive growth we have this year.), but Korean SC2 has to revive itself. The non-Korean scene did not revive or sustain itself either, it was put on life support by Blizzard until it could finally breathe again. But that life support has allowed it to revive and sustain itself significantly better than before. Isn't it still on life support? Serral is just 1 guy. Let's test it and end region lock next year
I'm referring to popularity life support and not skill. When the region lock was instigated, crowds were tiny, viewership was at an all time low, production value sucked, and ESL was telling Blizzard to region lock or they'd drop SC2. Since then we have packed every stage they put out for us (remember Leipzig 2016's tiny stage?), viewership kept growing, and people have just gotten more excited for SC2 than in a long time.
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This tournament only confirms that the Korean zergs are quite weak, which explains their lack of victory in GSL on lotv.
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When Serral came to this tournament it was he hasn't beaten koreans blah blah blah... then it was the koreans he beat aren't that great blah blah blah... you can only beat who comes your way... take that korean elitists!!
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EPT
