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On August 04 2017 23:44 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:39 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 23:36 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. That basically confirms terran is the hardest race mechanically hence the hardest race? Since everyone can think but not everyone can think and execute quickly Not really. Not all effective actions are equal especially between races. Which race got the most players injured already?
Or maybe they're the only ones complaining about it 
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On August 04 2017 23:42 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:39 Fango wrote:On August 04 2017 23:38 Elentos wrote:They don't play an ace match if one team already has won after 8 games. Also... yeah 5-0 not gonna happen. I thought they play all maps regardless of score? They play the 8 scheduled sets regardless of the score but not the ace match.
ahh. Well foreigners still have a good chance to 5-0 I think. Inno, Dark, and soO won't lose to foreigners but they play last. herO, ByuN, and sOs will lose, and then it only takes a cheese from Nerchio and Kela to swing it
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On August 04 2017 23:36 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. That basically confirms terran is the hardest race mechanically hence the hardest race? Since everyone can think but not everyone can think and execute quickly
The ability to effectively harass the entire game while keeping macro near perfect is the difference I found between Korean and Foreign Terran. In Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm, Zergs tended to be faster than Terrans and you saw a slower than average Terran player like MVP find huge amounts of success, but things are much different in Legacy and I think that is why the only Terrans you see having success are the super fast ones.
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On August 04 2017 23:44 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:39 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 23:36 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. That basically confirms terran is the hardest race mechanically hence the hardest race? Since everyone can think but not everyone can think and execute quickly Not really. Not all effective actions are equal especially between races. Which race got the most players injured already?
I don't think that's a good metric. Getting pregnant increases your carpal tunnel risk, but I wouldn't call it terribly mechanically difficult.
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On August 04 2017 23:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:44 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2017 23:39 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 23:36 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. That basically confirms terran is the hardest race mechanically hence the hardest race? Since everyone can think but not everyone can think and execute quickly Not really. Not all effective actions are equal especially between races. Which race got the most players injured already? I don't think that's a good metric. Getting pregnant increases your carpal tunnel risk, but I wouldn't call it terribly mechanically difficult.
This conversation is going places
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France13018 Posts
On August 04 2017 23:42 Bayaz90 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. Interesting. How does EPM compare between foreign and Korean zergs? And are there relatively bad pros that have very high EPM? Players like Snute, Scarlett, Elazer, and Serral are on par, maybe a few pts below on average, with Top Tier Koreans, though a few outliers exist such as Losira who are faster on average. TLO hovers around 190-200. Nerchio is an anamoly, finding success with 160-180 epm, but we see the dividends from his poor creep spread.' The highest EPM average from a player I ever studied was Yoda, consistently 260+, but he did not have a very successful career before he retired. Golden also was very fast. Foreignerwise, Marinelord was over 200 EPM on many occassions, but didn't have much success.
How fast was LucifroN?
Guy was like the genius among foreign terrans, Stephano genius level but with a far worse race during his peak
edit:
"I don't think that's a good metric. Getting pregnant increases your carpal tunnel risk, but I wouldn't call it terribly mechanically difficult.
" it's widely accepted that terran is the most mechanically difficult race, I'm not looking for a proof for what I already know, it's just funny how some people are in full denial xD
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On August 04 2017 23:50 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:42 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 23:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. Interesting. How does EPM compare between foreign and Korean zergs? And are there relatively bad pros that have very high EPM? Players like Snute, Scarlett, Elazer, and Serral are on par, maybe a few pts below on average, with Top Tier Koreans, though a few outliers exist such as Losira who are faster on average. TLO hovers around 190-200. Nerchio is an anamoly, finding success with 160-180 epm, but we see the dividends from his poor creep spread.' The highest EPM average from a player I ever studied was Yoda, consistently 260+, but he did not have a very successful career before he retired. Golden also was very fast. Foreignerwise, Marinelord was over 200 EPM on many occassions, but didn't have much success. How fast was LucifroN? Guy was like the genius among foreign terrans, Stephano genius level but with a far worse race during his peak edit: "I don't think that's a good metric. Getting pregnant increases your carpal tunnel risk, but I wouldn't call it terribly mechanically difficult. " it's widely accepted that terran is the most mechanically difficult race, I'm not looking for a proof for what I already know, it's just funny how some people are in full denial xD
It doesn't make your metric any less flawed. Terran is the most mechanically difficult race (though defining what constitutes mechanically difficult is an iffy business), but your evidence for it is still garbage.
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On August 04 2017 23:50 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:42 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 23:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. Interesting. How does EPM compare between foreign and Korean zergs? And are there relatively bad pros that have very high EPM? Players like Snute, Scarlett, Elazer, and Serral are on par, maybe a few pts below on average, with Top Tier Koreans, though a few outliers exist such as Losira who are faster on average. TLO hovers around 190-200. Nerchio is an anamoly, finding success with 160-180 epm, but we see the dividends from his poor creep spread.' The highest EPM average from a player I ever studied was Yoda, consistently 260+, but he did not have a very successful career before he retired. Golden also was very fast. Foreignerwise, Marinelord was over 200 EPM on many occassions, but didn't have much success. How fast was LucifroN? Guy was like the genius among foreign terrans, Stephano genius level but with a far worse race during his peak edit: "I don't think that's a good metric. Getting pregnant increases your carpal tunnel risk, but I wouldn't call it terribly mechanically difficult. " it's widely accepted that terran is the most mechanically difficult race, I'm not looking for a proof for what I already know, it's just funny how some people are in full denial xD
Yeah and Mvp is GOAT, we know
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France13018 Posts
On August 04 2017 23:55 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:50 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2017 23:42 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 23:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. Interesting. How does EPM compare between foreign and Korean zergs? And are there relatively bad pros that have very high EPM? Players like Snute, Scarlett, Elazer, and Serral are on par, maybe a few pts below on average, with Top Tier Koreans, though a few outliers exist such as Losira who are faster on average. TLO hovers around 190-200. Nerchio is an anamoly, finding success with 160-180 epm, but we see the dividends from his poor creep spread.' The highest EPM average from a player I ever studied was Yoda, consistently 260+, but he did not have a very successful career before he retired. Golden also was very fast. Foreignerwise, Marinelord was over 200 EPM on many occassions, but didn't have much success. How fast was LucifroN? Guy was like the genius among foreign terrans, Stephano genius level but with a far worse race during his peak edit: "I don't think that's a good metric. Getting pregnant increases your carpal tunnel risk, but I wouldn't call it terribly mechanically difficult. " it's widely accepted that terran is the most mechanically difficult race, I'm not looking for a proof for what I already know, it's just funny how some people are in full denial xD It doesn't make your metric any less flawed.
I don't use a single specific metric.
Of course one single one will be flawed, I don't give a crap about that.
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On August 04 2017 23:36 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. That basically confirms terran is the hardest race mechanically hence the hardest race? Since everyone can think but not everyone can think and execute quickly
Do you know how EPM is measured? It includes all clicking and boxing, if u watch a protoss like hero play phoenix u will easily see 200+ EPM. That doesn't mean one race is harder than the other, its just how the races work
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On August 04 2017 23:36 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. That basically confirms terran is the hardest race mechanically hence the hardest race? Since everyone can think but not everyone can think and execute quickly
"Everyone can think" lol
ITT using your hands is harder than using your brain
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France13018 Posts
On August 05 2017 00:08 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:36 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. That basically confirms terran is the hardest race mechanically hence the hardest race? Since everyone can think but not everyone can think and execute quickly "Everyone can think" lol ITT using your hands is harder than using your brain
You realize that most players don't "actively" solve new problems when playing, but most of the times apply solutions to situations from experience/training? So the main difficulty of the game becomes execution.
Only in the beginnings of an extension thinking allows you to win games just as much, if not more, than execution.
LotV amplifies this phenomena since everything is so fast, so naturally foreign terrans have an even harder time than before.
They manage to take games when they can abuse early game advantages into win, or when they can abuse a gimmicky composition (ravens in lategame) but other than that they can't play as well as the KR terrans.
So yes, execution is the hardest part in sc2 as terran.
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I don't disagree that terrans don't think a lot, I think that's quite obvious. I disagree that it makes them the hardest race because "everyone can think".
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On August 05 2017 00:26 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 00:08 Nebuchad wrote:On August 04 2017 23:36 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. That basically confirms terran is the hardest race mechanically hence the hardest race? Since everyone can think but not everyone can think and execute quickly "Everyone can think" lol ITT using your hands is harder than using your brain You realize that most players don't "actively" solve new problems when playing, but most of the times apply solutions to situations from experience/training? So the main difficulty of the game becomes execution. Only in the beginnings of an extension thinking allows you to win games just as much, if not more, than execution. LotV amplifies this phenomena since everything is so fast, so naturally foreign terrans have an even harder time than before. They manage to take games when they can abuse early game advantages into win, or when they can abuse a gimmicky composition (ravens in lategame) but other than that they can't play as well as the KR terrans. So yes, execution is the hardest part in sc2 as terran.
I agree with this. I can listen to an audiobook just fine when playing SC2, not so with LoL or Dota 2.
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On August 04 2017 23:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 23:44 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2017 23:39 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 23:36 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2017 23:22 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 04 2017 22:56 Waxangel wrote:
Has would never throw a 2-0 lead Yeah, because he'd have to get a lead first. On August 04 2017 22:55 Bayaz90 wrote:On August 04 2017 22:52 c0sm0naut wrote:
Special is better than neeb imho
I dont think neeb is fast enough, special plays really fast and loose and thats what GSL is all about Yea, it confused me when people thought Nerchio was gonna beat Dark.... Dark's got him beat by like 40 EPM. Ever since WoL, Special has been the fastest foreigner with the best mechanics besides Stephano in his prime. People actually pay attention to stuff like EPM? I do at least. I have been ever since SC2gears in WoL and you'd be surprised by the results. A couple years ago I was gonna make a big reddit post about it but things came up. Just to give you an example, in one of the Korean dominated MLGs. Koreans hit 200+ EPM 47 times. Foreigners hit it twice, and they were both Major. Players have gotten faster now, but the only foreign Terran that consistently hits 200+ EPM was Major. 200 being the "threshold" to be a great Terran I discovered but that line has moved move towards 220 now. For comparison, in game 1 of IEM Shanghai between Dark vs TY, TY had 258 EPM and Dark 220 EPM. A replay doesn't exist of a foreign Terran with 250 EPM. That basically confirms terran is the hardest race mechanically hence the hardest race? Since everyone can think but not everyone can think and execute quickly Not really. Not all effective actions are equal especially between races. Which race got the most players injured already? Getting pregnant increases your carpal tunnel risk, but I wouldn't call it terribly mechanically difficult.
won the thread
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On August 04 2017 06:36 usopsama wrote:Poll: Has the gap closed?The gap is widening/The gap will never close. (16) 53% The gap is closing. (13) 43% The gap closed a long time ago. (1) 3% 30 total votes Your vote: Has the gap closed? (Vote): The gap is closing.
(Vote): The gap closed a long time ago.
(Vote): The gap is widening/The gap will never close.
Neeb may be terrible at all other match-ups against Koreans, but his PvP against the Koreans is legit. Nerchio is, once again, full of fail.
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On August 05 2017 01:33 usopsama wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2017 06:36 usopsama wrote:Poll: Has the gap closed?The gap is widening/The gap will never close. (16) 53% The gap is closing. (13) 43% The gap closed a long time ago. (1) 3% 30 total votes Your vote: Has the gap closed? (Vote): The gap is closing.
(Vote): The gap closed a long time ago.
(Vote): The gap is widening/The gap will never close.
Neeb may be terrible at all other match-ups against Koreans, but his PvP against the Koreans is legit. Nerchio is, once again, full of fail.
He is the best foreign protoss. But I don't think his PvP is quite as good as it was when it made him famous. Or if it is, we haven't it much in the WCS 2017 period.
Would be exited for him to go up against someone like Classic/Stats/Dear/Zest/herO in his current form. Maybe at blizzcon
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On August 05 2017 02:00 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:33 usopsama wrote:On August 04 2017 06:36 usopsama wrote:Poll: Has the gap closed?The gap is widening/The gap will never close. (16) 53% The gap is closing. (13) 43% The gap closed a long time ago. (1) 3% 30 total votes Your vote: Has the gap closed? (Vote): The gap is closing.
(Vote): The gap closed a long time ago.
(Vote): The gap is widening/The gap will never close.
Neeb may be terrible at all other match-ups against Koreans, but his PvP against the Koreans is legit. Nerchio is, once again, full of fail. He is the best foreign protoss. But I don't think his PvP is quite as good as it was when it made him famous. Or if it is, we haven't it much in the WCS 2017 period. Would be exited for him to go up against someone like Classic/Stats/Dear/Zest/herO in his current form. Maybe at blizzcon
haha Zest
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terrans don't think, jeez
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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EPT
