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On March 05 2017 07:21 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 07:20 plogamer wrote:On March 05 2017 07:12 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:09 Fango wrote:On March 05 2017 07:07 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:02 Penev wrote:
I think you can't do much better than IEM this tourney both in terms of format and korean/ foreigner ratio Agreed. Having basically the best Koreans and the top foreigners competing in the same tourney is always the most fun. We don't get enough of it any more. It really is. sadly some people just wanna see full brackets of nothing but foreigners though Oh totally. Same with people who only want Koreans. Players like Nerchio/Showtime are good enough to compete with most Koreans so I don't know why people wouldn't want them around. People who cheer for Koreans do it for the skill; personality second. People who cheer for Foreigners do it for personality first. Then skill (for that foreign "hope"). No doubt, I also cheer for skilled foreigners; but let's be honest and admit that foreigners who can go toe-to-toe with Koreans is extremely rare. Neeb has no personality to cheer for so I assume this means people cheer for his adepts, right?
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On March 05 2017 07:22 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 07:21 Elentos wrote:On March 05 2017 07:20 plogamer wrote:On March 05 2017 07:12 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:09 Fango wrote:On March 05 2017 07:07 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:02 Penev wrote:
I think you can't do much better than IEM this tourney both in terms of format and korean/ foreigner ratio Agreed. Having basically the best Koreans and the top foreigners competing in the same tourney is always the most fun. We don't get enough of it any more. It really is. sadly some people just wanna see full brackets of nothing but foreigners though Oh totally. Same with people who only want Koreans. Players like Nerchio/Showtime are good enough to compete with most Koreans so I don't know why people wouldn't want them around. People who cheer for Koreans do it for the skill; personality second. People who cheer for Foreigners do it for personality first. Then skill (for that foreign "hope"). No doubt, I also cheer for skilled foreigners; but let's be honest and admit that foreigners who can go toe-to-toe with Koreans is extremely rare. Neeb has no personality to cheer for so I assume this means people cheer for his adepts, right?
Nice try Cricketer but we all know people cheer for Neeb's disruptor balls.
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On March 05 2017 07:20 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 07:12 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:09 Fango wrote:On March 05 2017 07:07 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:02 Penev wrote:
I think you can't do much better than IEM this tourney both in terms of format and korean/ foreigner ratio Agreed. Having basically the best Koreans and the top foreigners competing in the same tourney is always the most fun. We don't get enough of it any more. It really is. sadly some people just wanna see full brackets of nothing but foreigners though Oh totally. Same with people who only want Koreans. Players like Nerchio/Showtime are good enough to compete with most Koreans so I don't know why people wouldn't want them around. People who cheer for Koreans do it for the skill; personality second. People who cheer for Foreigners do it for personality first. Then skill (for that foreign "hope"). No doubt, I also cheer for skilled foreigners; but let's be honest and admit that foreigners who can go toe-to-toe with Koreans is extremely rare.
You have to specify Koreans here though.
If you mean top Koreans, I think no sane person would deny that. The thing is, there are maybe not even 20 such Koreans nowadays, and if you replaced the worst 5 Code S players with the best 5 foreigners, the skill level would actually increase.
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I just gave my perspective of WHY certain people care only about the korean scene. I don't really have any foreigners i particularly cheer for either. Not because they are not korean, simply because i didn't watch enough content to care about them all that much.
Interest in players can only be built through watching their content (that's either seeing them play, watch their stream, extra videos about them, etc) We had a lot of high quality korean content (GSL, SSL, Proleague, even weekend tournaments for a long time) and almost no foreign content comparatively. That's were this is coming from imo.
I blame blizzard because they didn't have the skill to create a good system/league exlusive to foreign players.
Look at what RIOT did with lcs, it's so easy to cheer for western teams because the content is there. They wanna build these teams and players because it benefits them as well. Blizzard did nothing.
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On March 05 2017 07:25 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 07:20 plogamer wrote:On March 05 2017 07:12 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:09 Fango wrote:On March 05 2017 07:07 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:02 Penev wrote:
I think you can't do much better than IEM this tourney both in terms of format and korean/ foreigner ratio Agreed. Having basically the best Koreans and the top foreigners competing in the same tourney is always the most fun. We don't get enough of it any more. It really is. sadly some people just wanna see full brackets of nothing but foreigners though Oh totally. Same with people who only want Koreans. Players like Nerchio/Showtime are good enough to compete with most Koreans so I don't know why people wouldn't want them around. People who cheer for Koreans do it for the skill; personality second. People who cheer for Foreigners do it for personality first. Then skill (for that foreign "hope"). No doubt, I also cheer for skilled foreigners; but let's be honest and admit that foreigners who can go toe-to-toe with Koreans is extremely rare. You have to specify Koreans here though. If you mean top Koreans, I think no sane person would deny that. The thing is, there are maybe not even 20 such Koreans nowadays, and if you replaced the worst 5 Code S players with the best 5 foreigners, the skill level would actually increase.
I would really like that, the best foreigners competing in Korea
props to scarlett for doing just that
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On March 05 2017 07:25 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 07:20 plogamer wrote:On March 05 2017 07:12 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:09 Fango wrote:On March 05 2017 07:07 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:02 Penev wrote:
I think you can't do much better than IEM this tourney both in terms of format and korean/ foreigner ratio Agreed. Having basically the best Koreans and the top foreigners competing in the same tourney is always the most fun. We don't get enough of it any more. It really is. sadly some people just wanna see full brackets of nothing but foreigners though Oh totally. Same with people who only want Koreans. Players like Nerchio/Showtime are good enough to compete with most Koreans so I don't know why people wouldn't want them around. People who cheer for Koreans do it for the skill; personality second. People who cheer for Foreigners do it for personality first. Then skill (for that foreign "hope"). No doubt, I also cheer for skilled foreigners; but let's be honest and admit that foreigners who can go toe-to-toe with Koreans is extremely rare. You have to specify Koreans here though. If you mean top Koreans, I think no sane person would deny that. The thing is, there are maybe not even 20 such Koreans nowadays, and if you replaced the worst 5 Code S players with the best 5 foreigners, the skill level would actually increase.
Are you saying Nerchio is better than DRGLing?
By god.
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On March 05 2017 07:27 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I just gave my perspective of WHY certain people care only about the korean scene. I don't really have any foreigners i particularly cheer for either. Not because they are not korean, simply because i didn't watch enough content to care about them all that much.
Interest in players can only be built through watching their content (that's either seeing them play, watch their stream, extra videos about them, etc) We had a lot of high quality korean content (GSL, SSL, Proleague, even weekend tournaments for a long time) and almost no foreign content comparatively. That's were this is coming from imo.
I blame blizzard because they didn't have the skill to create a good system/league exlusive to foreign players.
Look at what RIOT did with lcs, it's so easy to cheer for western teams because the content is there. They wanna build these teams and players because it benefits them as well. Blizzard did nothing.
Yeap. If you look @ 2015 HOTS Korean scene. vs Foreign scene the comparison isn't even meaningful. KeSPA players were on a completely different level of play than any foreigner
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As someone who is kinda known for cheering against foreigners I want to say that last year I was hoping for every foreigner to lose because I hated the WCS system and didn't want people to mark it as a success due to improved foreigner performances.
Now that the WCS system is more fair I don't really have a problem with foreigners winning anymore and also think it's cool that Nerchio, Showtime and a few others are performing well.
But for the reasons the-red-viper listed I'm still cheering most of the time for the korean.
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On March 05 2017 07:21 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 07:20 plogamer wrote:On March 05 2017 07:12 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:09 Fango wrote:On March 05 2017 07:07 Phredxor wrote:On March 05 2017 07:02 Penev wrote:
I think you can't do much better than IEM this tourney both in terms of format and korean/ foreigner ratio Agreed. Having basically the best Koreans and the top foreigners competing in the same tourney is always the most fun. We don't get enough of it any more. It really is. sadly some people just wanna see full brackets of nothing but foreigners though Oh totally. Same with people who only want Koreans. Players like Nerchio/Showtime are good enough to compete with most Koreans so I don't know why people wouldn't want them around. People who cheer for Koreans do it for the skill; personality second. People who cheer for Foreigners do it for personality first. Then skill (for that foreign "hope"). No doubt, I also cheer for skilled foreigners; but let's be honest and admit that foreigners who can go toe-to-toe with Koreans is extremely rare. Neeb has no personality to cheer for so I assume this means people cheer for his skill, right?
The power of memes is strong with Neeb.
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I think what the scene lacks the most are offline tournament organizers. We've just been losing them over the years, it's not even funny.
Also tbh I kinda hope for 2018 Blizzard actually reconsiders the foreign WCS a bit and brings back the Premier league :S (fat chance I know, they said this was the system for 2 years)
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On March 05 2017 07:31 Charoisaur wrote:
As someone who is kinda known for cheering against foreigners I want to say that last year I was hoping for every foreigner to lose because I hated the WCS system and didn't want people to mark it as a success due to improved foreigner performances.
Now that the WCS system is more fair I don't really have a problem with foreigners winning anymore and also think it's cool that Nerchio, Showtime and a few others are performing well.
But for the reasons the-red-viper listed I'm still cheering most of the time for the korean.
Absolutely makes sense too. I mean GSL has been going on for 7 years. You won't find history like that outside of Korea. Proleague was even more amazing in that regard. It's just different.
WCS was changed so often, nothing solid has really been built in all those years.
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On March 05 2017 07:34 Elentos wrote:
I think what the scene lacks the most are offline tournament organizers. We've just been losing them over the years, it's not even funny.
Also tbh I kinda hope for 2018 Blizzard actually reconsiders the foreign WCS a bit and brings back the Premier league :S (fat chance I know, they said this was the system for 2 years)
i blame god, what's with these fucking time zones?
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What's the problem if some people cheer for the Koreans just because they're Korean?
A lot of people cheer for foreigner just because they're foreigners and nobody has a problem with that...
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On March 05 2017 07:34 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 07:31 Charoisaur wrote:
As someone who is kinda known for cheering against foreigners I want to say that last year I was hoping for every foreigner to lose because I hated the WCS system and didn't want people to mark it as a success due to improved foreigner performances.
Now that the WCS system is more fair I don't really have a problem with foreigners winning anymore and also think it's cool that Nerchio, Showtime and a few others are performing well.
But for the reasons the-red-viper listed I'm still cheering most of the time for the korean. Absolutely makes sense too. I mean GSL has been going on for 7 years. You won't find history like that outside of Korea. Proleague was even more amazing in that regard. It's just different. WCS was changed so often, nothing solid has really been built in all those years.
WCS Premier league was in a good state as a tournament before they killed it. Solid viewer base, great time slots for EU and NA and the chance to watch players over a few weeks instead of just for a weekend before a month-long break.
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On March 05 2017 07:38 Silvana wrote:
What's the problem if some people cheer for the Koreans just because they're Korean?
A lot of people cheer for foreigner just because they're foreigners and nobody has a problem with that...
Never anything wrong with cheering for somebody for whatever reason tbh.
Big difference between cheering for someone and against someone though imo.
Although I still think it's weird to cheer for a foreigner because he is a foreigner, or for a Korean because he is a Korean. Not that I think that happens very often.
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On March 05 2017 07:40 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 07:34 Musicus wrote:On March 05 2017 07:31 Charoisaur wrote:
As someone who is kinda known for cheering against foreigners I want to say that last year I was hoping for every foreigner to lose because I hated the WCS system and didn't want people to mark it as a success due to improved foreigner performances.
Now that the WCS system is more fair I don't really have a problem with foreigners winning anymore and also think it's cool that Nerchio, Showtime and a few others are performing well.
But for the reasons the-red-viper listed I'm still cheering most of the time for the korean. Absolutely makes sense too. I mean GSL has been going on for 7 years. You won't find history like that outside of Korea. Proleague was even more amazing in that regard. It's just different. WCS was changed so often, nothing solid has really been built in all those years. WCS Premier league was in a good state as a tournament before they killed it. Solid viewer base, great time slots for EU and NA and the chance to watch players over a few weeks instead of just for a weekend before a month-long break.
Yeah, it was just no longer something ESL wanted to do I think. Too bad.
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On March 05 2017 07:42 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2017 07:38 Silvana wrote:
What's the problem if some people cheer for the Koreans just because they're Korean?
A lot of people cheer for foreigner just because they're foreigners and nobody has a problem with that... Never anything wrong with cheering for somebody for whatever reason tbh. Big difference between cheering for someone and against someone though imo. Although I still think it's weird to cheer for a foreigner because he is a foreigner, or for a Korean because he is a Korean. Not that I think that happens very often.
Well, if you are cheering for somebody you're automatically cheering against his opponent.
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On March 05 2017 07:38 Silvana wrote:
What's the problem if some people cheer for the Koreans just because they're Korean?
A lot of people cheer for foreigner just because they're foreigners and nobody has a problem with that...
I really think this is a semantics thing tbh. (Almost) nobody cheers for a specific group "just because".
It's always about what content you actually consume. I can easily follow nerchio on twitter, watch his stream (does he stream?^^) and understand him perfectly fine. That's a huge plus and makes it more likely that i care about him.
In my specific case i don't really follow any content from foreigners closely though, i followed korean starcraft and thus i am more inclined to care about korean players. I think that's the fundamental reason why some people cheer for koreans and other for foreigners (or rather why we cheer for specific people in the first place)
Everybody values some other things here. For some the lvl of play is the most important aspect, for others the player also needs to show personality. For others the ease of consuming content is the biggest factor (aka language barrier, quantity of content, etc)
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But for more pleasant things, I consider Dark vs Stats as one of the biggest rivalries in LotV so far. The biggest one on the PvZ front. They've played 21 offline games, including in SSL, Proleague and at Blizzcon.
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On March 05 2017 07:49 Elentos wrote:
But for more pleasant things, I consider Dark vs Stats as one of the biggest rivalries in LotV so far. The biggest one on the PvZ front. They've played 21 offline games, including in SSL, Proleague and at Blizzcon.
And dark is usually the victor as well.
kinda reminds me of the Zest vs soO rivalry back in 2014. being KT vs SKT as well
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EPT
