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United States23455 Posts
On March 13 2015 04:19 Big J wrote:
Guys, give it a rest. People lose, even if they are really good. Especially if they play against very good players.
This discussion kind of reminds me about the "WCS Premier players cannot be considered good" thread... Life might be the best or one of the very best players in the world right now, but that doesn't mean tournaments should seed him into finals. If he loses he loses, plain as that.
Time to focus on the other players left. Who is going to stop Winnovation? Maru or herO or some dark horse like Dark or Horse Flash.
"If he loses, he loses, plain as that"? The fact is that Innovation or Life from the get go was going to end up two grand in prize money and 150 WCS points down on some inferior players just by virtue of the bracket seeding
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On March 13 2015 04:26 Disarmed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:23 Makro wrote:On March 13 2015 04:18 Disarmed wrote:
holy fuck Cs:GO is popular....250k?
Wow. nop 500k with the GO TV 500000 people watching? and im sure those aren't the finals yet? i had no idea...is this bigger than LoL?
there's a grill casting the game
ahhh so nice on the ears
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On March 13 2015 04:32 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:19 Big J wrote:
Guys, give it a rest. People lose, even if they are really good. Especially if they play against very good players.
This discussion kind of reminds me about the "WCS Premier players cannot be considered good" thread... Life might be the best or one of the very best players in the world right now, but that doesn't mean tournaments should seed him into finals. If he loses he loses, plain as that.
Time to focus on the other players left. Who is going to stop Winnovation? Maru or herO or some dark horse like Dark or Horse Flash. "If he loses, he loses, plain as that"? The fact is that Innovation or Life from the get go was going to end up two grand in prize money and 150 WCS points down on some inferior players just by virtue of the bracket seeding
Make it 400 for Life in this tournament because he doesn't get WCS points for this as he was seeded from winning IEM Taipei.
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On March 13 2015 04:32 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:26 Disarmed wrote:On March 13 2015 04:23 Makro wrote:On March 13 2015 04:18 Disarmed wrote:
holy fuck Cs:GO is popular....250k?
Wow. nop 500k with the GO TV 500000 people watching? and im sure those aren't the finals yet? i had no idea...is this bigger than LoL? i don't know really, but counter strike has always been for a very long time the cutting edge of west esport, it is taking back his throne
and for the life of me I cannot understand why.
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Bisutopia19300 Posts
Home just in time to miss everything. IEM is not nice to the Americas.
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If you don't have seeding you simply shouldn't make a single elimination tournaments. Its kinda unprofessional not have seeding. Look at other sports. E-sports has more of these double elimination tournaments which is really interesting and even then its normal to have seeding. But to be single elimination and not have seeding is just cruel. Poor Marinelord.
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On March 13 2015 04:41 Megafather wrote:
If you don't have seeding you simply shouldn't make a single elimination tournaments. Its kinda unprofessional not have seeding. Look at other sports. E-sports has more of these double elimination tournaments which is really interesting and even then its normal to have seeding. But to be single elimination and not have seeding is just cruel. Poor Marinelord.
This tournament had seeding, but it's based on IEM results (/qualifier results for Dark & Cure) this season + random draw.
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TIL Life was not one of the top 8 players at this event
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Canada11355 Posts
Oh this is already over? Is every day starting at the same time?
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PvZ showed it's only utility today, stalled the good games while i was going home.
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On March 13 2015 04:49 Fecalfeast wrote:
Oh this is already over? Is every day starting at the same time?
Day 1, 2 and 3 start at 1 pm CET, the final day starts a few hours later (I think 4 pm CET). 1 pm CET, if you didn't know, was 7 h 54 minutes ago btw.
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On March 13 2015 04:52 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:49 Fecalfeast wrote:
Oh this is already over? Is every day starting at the same time? Day 1, 2 and 3 start at 1 pm CET, the final day starts a few hours later (I think 4 pm CET).
I just subconsciously tried to calculate the starting time from that. Then I realized that I live in Europe and it's my own fucking timezone and there's nothing to calculate. The internet is making me stupid.
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On March 13 2015 04:43 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:41 Megafather wrote:
If you don't have seeding you simply shouldn't make a single elimination tournaments. Its kinda unprofessional not have seeding. Look at other sports. E-sports has more of these double elimination tournaments which is really interesting and even then its normal to have seeding. But to be single elimination and not have seeding is just cruel. Poor Marinelord. This tournament had seeding, but it's based on IEM results (/qualifier results for Dark & Cure) this season + random draw.
Yea i mean a GOOD seeding ^^. Better no seeding then bad seeding? Hmm naah bad seeding is better but yea it was so bad i even forgot about it after you all were just discussing about how bad the seeding was (the runner-ups got better opponents, etc). The seeding should be based in some sort of rankings like in blizzcon.
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On March 13 2015 04:56 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:52 Elentos wrote:On March 13 2015 04:49 Fecalfeast wrote:
Oh this is already over? Is every day starting at the same time? Day 1, 2 and 3 start at 1 pm CET, the final day starts a few hours later (I think 4 pm CET). I just subconsciously tried to calculate the starting time from that. Then I realized that I live in Europe and it's my own fucking timezone and there's nothing to calculate. The internet is making me stupid.
That's pretty funny, actually.
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On March 13 2015 04:46 Yorkie wrote:
TIL Life was not one of the top 8 players at this event
The point of a tournament is not to determine who # 3-16 are. It's to get a winner. PERIOD. If you can't beat your opponent you're not the winner.
You want to determine the best (or 12th best) player have a full round robin with unlimited tiebreakers.
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United States23455 Posts
On March 13 2015 04:59 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:46 Yorkie wrote:
TIL Life was not one of the top 8 players at this event The point of a tournament is not to determine who # 3-16 are. It's to get a winner. PERIOD. If you can't beat your opponent you're not the winner. You want to determine the best (or 12th best) player have a full round robin with unlimited tiebreakers.
That is the point of a winner take all tournament, like last year. This year there is a massive difference in prize pool and WCS points, meaning there is actually a massive difference between 3rd and 16th despite what you seem to think
That being said, I am pretty much over this. I don't really mind at this point and I'm glad these two got to play at all because they make great Starcraft
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On March 13 2015 04:26 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:19 pure.Wasted wrote:
In g5, Life takes a huge engagement at his fourth. At the start of this engagement, Inno is maxed and banking over 1k minerals. Cut to the end of the fight, he's still sitting at 1k minerals and he's down like 30 supply despite the fight looking more or less even. If it were any other player, I'd just assume they failed to macro and be satisfied with that, but this is Innovation, forgetting to build Marines while he's attacking with Marines isn't really a thing that happens to him.
Kaelaris even pointed this out after the fight was over and he looked at the supply and he was like "I'll have to rewatch that game, something weird happened."
If anyone's figured it out or rewatches the series and has a theory, please reply here or PM me, I'm super curious. I rewatched the vod, he never stopped building marines during the fight, I would assume Life managed to resupply faster with a lot of larva but I'm not sure.
Inno did not have all his reinforcements aggressively rallied so he lost at the fourth. Then he lost his Natural, but what the commentators didn't notice is that Life got supply blocked (I believe Inno took out three to four Overlords in the middle of the map while retreating) and this allowed Inno to catch up in supply.
EDIT: Having said that, it is completely possible that Life won the fight with more units than he expected to have so he could have just forgotten to make Overlords, but he was exceeding the supply limit so some of them must have died right? Who knows, I guess we'll find out for sure two minutes after the finals end as the replays go up because Messioso.
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On March 13 2015 04:32 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:19 Big J wrote:
Guys, give it a rest. People lose, even if they are really good. Especially if they play against very good players.
This discussion kind of reminds me about the "WCS Premier players cannot be considered good" thread... Life might be the best or one of the very best players in the world right now, but that doesn't mean tournaments should seed him into finals. If he loses he loses, plain as that.
Time to focus on the other players left. Who is going to stop Winnovation? Maru or herO or some dark horse like Dark or Horse Flash. "If he loses, he loses, plain as that"? The fact is that Innovation or Life from the get go was going to end up two grand in prize money and 150 WCS points down on some inferior players just by virtue of the bracket seeding
This is not a qualifier though. This is the IEM top16 qualified 4 tournaments and 3 qualifiers.
You're going to have a hard time creating a good seeding algorithm that isn't biased and is based upon the IEM results.
E.g. if we seeded the top 8 as the IEM winners/runner ups and the bottom 8 as the guys from the qualifiers, we still might end up with Life (top 8) vs Innovation (bottom 8).
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On March 13 2015 05:05 CAG Husker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:26 Elentos wrote:On March 13 2015 04:19 pure.Wasted wrote:
In g5, Life takes a huge engagement at his fourth. At the start of this engagement, Inno is maxed and banking over 1k minerals. Cut to the end of the fight, he's still sitting at 1k minerals and he's down like 30 supply despite the fight looking more or less even. If it were any other player, I'd just assume they failed to macro and be satisfied with that, but this is Innovation, forgetting to build Marines while he's attacking with Marines isn't really a thing that happens to him.
Kaelaris even pointed this out after the fight was over and he looked at the supply and he was like "I'll have to rewatch that game, something weird happened."
If anyone's figured it out or rewatches the series and has a theory, please reply here or PM me, I'm super curious. I rewatched the vod, he never stopped building marines during the fight, I would assume Life managed to resupply faster with a lot of larva but I'm not sure. Inno did not have all his reinforcements aggressively rallied so he lost at the fourth. Then he lost his Natural, but what the commentators didn't notice is that Life got supply blocked (I believe Inno took out three to four Overlords in the middle of the map while retreating) and this allowed Inno to catch up in supply.
True enough, but after the first big fight, he was down 30 supply despite constant reproduction in a fight that looked like an even trade.
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On March 13 2015 05:07 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:32 Darkhorse wrote:On March 13 2015 04:19 Big J wrote:
Guys, give it a rest. People lose, even if they are really good. Especially if they play against very good players.
This discussion kind of reminds me about the "WCS Premier players cannot be considered good" thread... Life might be the best or one of the very best players in the world right now, but that doesn't mean tournaments should seed him into finals. If he loses he loses, plain as that.
Time to focus on the other players left. Who is going to stop Winnovation? Maru or herO or some dark horse like Dark or Horse Flash. "If he loses, he loses, plain as that"? The fact is that Innovation or Life from the get go was going to end up two grand in prize money and 150 WCS points down on some inferior players just by virtue of the bracket seeding This is not a qualifier though. This is the IEM top16 qualified 4 tournaments and 3 qualifiers. You're going to have a hard time creating a good seeding algorithm that isn't biased and is based upon the IEM results. E.g. if we seeded the top 8 as the IEM winners/runner ups and the bottom 8 as the guys from the qualifiers, we still might end up with Life (top 8) vs Innovation (bottom 8).
That is the seeding that happened <.<
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EPT
