• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:12
CEST 10:12
KST 17:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)15Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster1Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back0Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2
StarCraft 2
General
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025) Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Online Qualifiers (May 28-June 1, June 21-22) WardiTV Mondays RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Who wrote this nonsense about Flash? bonjwa.tv: my AI project that translates BW videos BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - LB Round 4 & 5 [ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Pro Gamers Cope with Str…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 33314 users

[WCS] Global Finals 2014 Day 3 - Page 16

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 423 Next
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 08 2014 17:12 GMT
#301
So yeah, pretty terrible conditions. Dont really reflect on Inno's skill, but showed Taeja's mental strength and focus were better was basically what I got out of that situation.
Moderator
Heinsenzerg
Profile Joined September 2011
Argentina2279 Posts
November 08 2014 17:12 GMT
#302
Can we all chant togheter: "We want LAN", or do old shitty decisions have a statue of limitations?
caznitch
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada645 Posts
November 08 2014 17:12 GMT
#303
On November 09 2014 02:11 vult wrote:
So in order of hype for the winner, it would go:
TaeJa>Life>MMA>Classic.

Disagree?


I agree. But in likliness to win I'd put Taeja>Classic>Life>MMA
why?
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
November 08 2014 17:13 GMT
#304
On November 09 2014 02:10 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:07 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:05 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:03 GumBa wrote:
How can people take away that Taeja is way better than I nno? That series was a farce. I want a rematch so badly


Taeja was better at dealing with downtime. I'd argue that he had stronger mental fortitude and focus than Inno did.

But one shouldnt need to deal with stuff like that in the first place -.-


BW/SC2/Dota2/Dota/LoL/HS/FGC/CS/CSGO/Quake have basically gone on for the last 10-12 years. It's bad, but a this point if you're expecting to never have to deal with technical difficulties, you're in for a bad time.

Technical diffilcuties and stuff are exclected but that was way worse than normal... Inno ran into technical shit at gsl and dealt with it but there comes a time where you can't expect a player to play anymore. Like when the ball deflates in football and imo that was one of those situations
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
November 08 2014 17:14 GMT
#305
On November 09 2014 02:07 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:05 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:03 GumBa wrote:
How can people take away that Taeja is way better than I nno? That series was a farce. I want a rematch so badly


Taeja was better at dealing with downtime. I'd argue that he had stronger mental fortitude and focus than Inno did.

But one shouldnt need to deal with stuff like that in the first place -.-


You should not, but you will always have to. The fact that Inno did not have a second keyboard in reach does not speak well for him. A Pro has to be prepared. Had that happened to TLO, he would've reached into his backpack for the second keyboard and is ready to go. A boxer should also not have to deal with a cut and blood in his eyes, but the second better has stuff ready to fix it, if it happens. If Inno had been prepared for the situation of his keyboard breaking, his mentality would've been fine.

Sounds harsh and it was very unfortunate and I feel very sorry for him, but I think that's how it is.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 08 2014 17:15 GMT
#306
On November 09 2014 02:13 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:10 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:07 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:05 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:03 GumBa wrote:
How can people take away that Taeja is way better than I nno? That series was a farce. I want a rematch so badly


Taeja was better at dealing with downtime. I'd argue that he had stronger mental fortitude and focus than Inno did.

But one shouldnt need to deal with stuff like that in the first place -.-


BW/SC2/Dota2/Dota/LoL/HS/FGC/CS/CSGO/Quake have basically gone on for the last 10-12 years. It's bad, but a this point if you're expecting to never have to deal with technical difficulties, you're in for a bad time.

Technical diffilcuties and stuff are exclected but that was way worse than normal... Inno ran into technical shit at gsl and dealt with it but there comes a time where you can't expect a player to play anymore. Like when the ball deflates in football and imo that was one of those situations


I think at the point we were at yesterday that was true. But Taeja basically played the same before and after the downtime while Inno was rattled. I dont count the loss against Inno, but I do count the win for Taeja because it showed that strength of focus.
Moderator
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 08 2014 17:15 GMT
#307
On November 09 2014 02:12 Heinsenzerg wrote:
Can we all chant togheter: "We want LAN", or do old shitty decisions have a statue of limitations?


All the we want lan signs were banned by blizzcon last year and presumably this year.
Moderator
royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-08 17:17:33
November 08 2014 17:15 GMT
#308
On November 09 2014 02:13 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:10 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:07 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:05 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:03 GumBa wrote:
How can people take away that Taeja is way better than I nno? That series was a farce. I want a rematch so badly


Taeja was better at dealing with downtime. I'd argue that he had stronger mental fortitude and focus than Inno did.

But one shouldnt need to deal with stuff like that in the first place -.-


BW/SC2/Dota2/Dota/LoL/HS/FGC/CS/CSGO/Quake have basically gone on for the last 10-12 years. It's bad, but a this point if you're expecting to never have to deal with technical difficulties, you're in for a bad time.

Technical diffilcuties and stuff are exclected but that was way worse than normal... Inno ran into technical shit at gsl and dealt with it but there comes a time where you can't expect a player to play anymore. Like when the ball deflates in football and imo that was one of those situations

Both of those guys got screwed hard. Every single game has pauses, crashes and hardware failures. Often at critical moments.

Edit: we got screwed too. It seemed like it was taking a toll on the players. The difference in the skill displayed in game 1 and the rest of the series was pretty large. We maybe could have gotten more games on the level of game 1.
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
November 08 2014 17:16 GMT
#309
On November 09 2014 02:12 stuchiu wrote:
So yeah, pretty terrible conditions. Dont really reflect on Inno's skill, but showed Taeja's mental strength and focus were better was basically what I got out of that situation.

I agree Taeja is probally mentally stronger but this situation went to far to give a legitamte result imo. Replay it and Taeja 3-0s Inno i can live with that Taeja is a monster but I feel robbed of a series and Inno got the short end of a shitty situation.
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
November 08 2014 17:18 GMT
#310
On November 09 2014 02:15 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:13 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:10 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:07 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:05 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:03 GumBa wrote:
How can people take away that Taeja is way better than I nno? That series was a farce. I want a rematch so badly


Taeja was better at dealing with downtime. I'd argue that he had stronger mental fortitude and focus than Inno did.

But one shouldnt need to deal with stuff like that in the first place -.-


BW/SC2/Dota2/Dota/LoL/HS/FGC/CS/CSGO/Quake have basically gone on for the last 10-12 years. It's bad, but a this point if you're expecting to never have to deal with technical difficulties, you're in for a bad time.

Technical diffilcuties and stuff are exclected but that was way worse than normal... Inno ran into technical shit at gsl and dealt with it but there comes a time where you can't expect a player to play anymore. Like when the ball deflates in football and imo that was one of those situations


I think at the point we were at yesterday that was true. But Taeja basically played the same before and after the downtime while Inno was rattled. I dont count the loss against Inno, but I do count the win for Taeja because it showed that strength of focus.

I completly agree. Should have been handled differently though
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 08 2014 17:18 GMT
#311
On November 09 2014 02:16 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:12 stuchiu wrote:
So yeah, pretty terrible conditions. Dont really reflect on Inno's skill, but showed Taeja's mental strength and focus were better was basically what I got out of that situation.

I agree Taeja is probally mentally stronger but this situation went to far to give a legitamte result imo. Replay it and Taeja 3-0s Inno i can live with that Taeja is a monster but I feel robbed of a series and Inno got the short end of a shitty situation.


The saddest part was g1 was so good.
Moderator
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
November 08 2014 17:19 GMT
#312
On November 09 2014 02:14 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:07 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:05 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:03 GumBa wrote:
How can people take away that Taeja is way better than I nno? That series was a farce. I want a rematch so badly


Taeja was better at dealing with downtime. I'd argue that he had stronger mental fortitude and focus than Inno did.

But one shouldnt need to deal with stuff like that in the first place -.-


You should not, but you will always have to. The fact that Inno did not have a second keyboard in reach does not speak well for him. A Pro has to be prepared. Had that happened to TLO, he would've reached into his backpack for the second keyboard and is ready to go. A boxer should also not have to deal with a cut and blood in his eyes, but the second better has stuff ready to fix it, if it happens. If Inno had been prepared for the situation of his keyboard breaking, his mentality would've been fine.

Sounds harsh and it was very unfortunate and I feel very sorry for him, but I think that's how it is.

There were like kinda huge factors in play not in Inno control you know. Like the whole nothing works and you wait an hour shit
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
November 08 2014 17:20 GMT
#313
On November 09 2014 02:18 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:16 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:12 stuchiu wrote:
So yeah, pretty terrible conditions. Dont really reflect on Inno's skill, but showed Taeja's mental strength and focus were better was basically what I got out of that situation.

I agree Taeja is probally mentally stronger but this situation went to far to give a legitamte result imo. Replay it and Taeja 3-0s Inno i can live with that Taeja is a monster but I feel robbed of a series and Inno got the short end of a shitty situation.


The saddest part was g1 was so good.

That's what truely broke me.
Blizzard has lost my faith in handling a tournament with how they dealt with all the stuff this blizzcon.
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
November 08 2014 17:21 GMT
#314
On November 09 2014 02:16 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:12 stuchiu wrote:
So yeah, pretty terrible conditions. Dont really reflect on Inno's skill, but showed Taeja's mental strength and focus were better was basically what I got out of that situation.

I agree Taeja is probally mentally stronger but this situation went to far to give a legitamte result imo. Replay it and Taeja 3-0s Inno i can live with that Taeja is a monster but I feel robbed of a series and Inno got the short end of a shitty situation.


I wasn't able to watch this series live, but it really sounds like Blizzcon missed out on an excellent potential series. It really saddens me that SC2 has been out for more than 4 years, and while this problem may have been a hardware problem, integrity of the tournament is still at risk due to these problems.

It is really disappointing to see one of these players have to lose after so much downtime and to have to maybe put an asterisk next to the series. TaeJa and Inno definitely deserve better than that.
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
Heinsenzerg
Profile Joined September 2011
Argentina2279 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-08 17:22:26
November 08 2014 17:21 GMT
#315
On November 09 2014 02:15 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:12 Heinsenzerg wrote:
Can we all chant togheter: "We want LAN", or do old shitty decisions have a statue of limitations?


All the we want lan signs were banned by blizzcon last year and presumably this year.


they can´t ban our throats

neither our souls!
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
November 08 2014 17:22 GMT
#316
On November 09 2014 02:19 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:14 Musicus wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:07 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:05 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:03 GumBa wrote:
How can people take away that Taeja is way better than I nno? That series was a farce. I want a rematch so badly


Taeja was better at dealing with downtime. I'd argue that he had stronger mental fortitude and focus than Inno did.

But one shouldnt need to deal with stuff like that in the first place -.-


You should not, but you will always have to. The fact that Inno did not have a second keyboard in reach does not speak well for him. A Pro has to be prepared. Had that happened to TLO, he would've reached into his backpack for the second keyboard and is ready to go. A boxer should also not have to deal with a cut and blood in his eyes, but the second better has stuff ready to fix it, if it happens. If Inno had been prepared for the situation of his keyboard breaking, his mentality would've been fine.

Sounds harsh and it was very unfortunate and I feel very sorry for him, but I think that's how it is.

There were like kinda huge factors in play not in Inno control you know. Like the whole nothing works and you wait an hour shit


Yeah but that was true for Taeja too right?
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
November 08 2014 17:22 GMT
#317
On November 09 2014 02:20 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:18 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:16 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:12 stuchiu wrote:
So yeah, pretty terrible conditions. Dont really reflect on Inno's skill, but showed Taeja's mental strength and focus were better was basically what I got out of that situation.

I agree Taeja is probally mentally stronger but this situation went to far to give a legitamte result imo. Replay it and Taeja 3-0s Inno i can live with that Taeja is a monster but I feel robbed of a series and Inno got the short end of a shitty situation.


The saddest part was g1 was so good.

That's what truely broke me.
Blizzard has lost my faith in handling a tournament with how they dealt with all the stuff this blizzcon.


After g1 I was so hyped, my tiredness was gone and then it all went to shit.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44098 Posts
November 08 2014 17:23 GMT
#318
On November 09 2014 02:21 Heinsenzerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:15 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:12 Heinsenzerg wrote:
Can we all chant togheter: "We want LAN", or do old shitty decisions have a statue of limitations?


All the we want lan signs were banned by blizzcon last year and presumably this year.


they can´t ban our throats

neither our souls!

Didn't blizz have that official statement where they said that the configuration of the server is basically the same as a lan event or something ?
this is a quote
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
November 08 2014 17:23 GMT
#319
On November 09 2014 02:21 Heinsenzerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:15 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:12 Heinsenzerg wrote:
Can we all chant togheter: "We want LAN", or do old shitty decisions have a statue of limitations?


All the we want lan signs were banned by blizzcon last year and presumably this year.


they can´t ban our throats

neither our souls!


at the very least


we can shout

BOOOOOOOOOOOO
rip passion
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
November 08 2014 17:23 GMT
#320
On November 09 2014 02:22 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 02:19 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:14 Musicus wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:07 GumBa wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:05 stuchiu wrote:
On November 09 2014 02:03 GumBa wrote:
How can people take away that Taeja is way better than I nno? That series was a farce. I want a rematch so badly


Taeja was better at dealing with downtime. I'd argue that he had stronger mental fortitude and focus than Inno did.

But one shouldnt need to deal with stuff like that in the first place -.-


You should not, but you will always have to. The fact that Inno did not have a second keyboard in reach does not speak well for him. A Pro has to be prepared. Had that happened to TLO, he would've reached into his backpack for the second keyboard and is ready to go. A boxer should also not have to deal with a cut and blood in his eyes, but the second better has stuff ready to fix it, if it happens. If Inno had been prepared for the situation of his keyboard breaking, his mentality would've been fine.

Sounds harsh and it was very unfortunate and I feel very sorry for him, but I think that's how it is.

There were like kinda huge factors in play not in Inno control you know. Like the whole nothing works and you wait an hour shit


Yeah but that was true for Taeja too right?

Please just read what I have wrote with Stuchiu. Both players got shafted amd it should have been redone at 1-1 today
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 423 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 48m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 1505
Zeus 566
actioN 295
Leta 206
PianO 117
EffOrt 25
soO 19
Dota 2
XaKoH 242
BananaSlamJamma218
League of Legends
JimRising 604
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1422
shoxiejesuss747
olofmeister269
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0447
Mew2King163
Other Games
SortOf58
crisheroes14
EnDerr3
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream9785
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream2968
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH381
• OhrlRock 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt682
• HappyZerGling145
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
2h 48m
Monday Night Weeklies
7h 48m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
WardiTV European League
1d 7h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 15h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
5 days
[ Show More ]
SOOP
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL: ProLeague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.