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Winner of the fan fiction contest here and winner of the hype video contest here. |
On November 04 2014 08:11 SC2Toastie wrote:
Holy crap. I can do nothing but say SoO was robbed 0_0
In games 2/3 it just looked like he was so, so, so far ahead, but as Taeja was willing to turtle on highground with planetaries, there was nothing Soo could do to close it out but wait for Taeja to fuck up..... :-(
I'm sad T_T
No, he made bad decisions against a very solid Taeja, that's all.
The game 3 impression comes a lot from Artosis totally overhyping and franckly irrelevant cast : saying a terran with 4 base 70 scv, 3/3 upgrades, 200/200 army with MMMM supported by Thors and a 3K/3K bank is out of solution and can't win is just not knowing the game. Artosis really casted like Taeja was just a peasant.
Game 4 was a big derp from soO really. And game 1 was punishment for his overconfidence.
Btw, shoutout to Apollo to remain calm and balanced despite Artosis non-sense, his "it looks like Taeja just beat the Blizcon champion, Artosis" was smart and smooth as fuck 
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On November 04 2014 08:11 SC2Toastie wrote:
Holy crap. I can do nothing but say SoO was robbed 0_0
In games 2/3 it just looked like he was so, so, so far ahead, but as Taeja was willing to turtle on highground with planetaries, there was nothing Soo could do to close it out but wait for Taeja to fuck up..... :-(
I'm sad T_T
?
How was he robbed when he lost fairly? Taeja wasn't nearly as turtle-y as he could have been. As you said yourself Taeja didn't fuck up, so he won.
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On November 04 2014 18:53 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2014 08:11 SC2Toastie wrote:
Holy crap. I can do nothing but say SoO was robbed 0_0
In games 2/3 it just looked like he was so, so, so far ahead, but as Taeja was willing to turtle on highground with planetaries, there was nothing Soo could do to close it out but wait for Taeja to fuck up..... :-(
I'm sad T_T ? How was he robbed when he lost fairly? Taeja wasn't nearly as turtle-y as he could have been. As you said yourself Taeja didn't fuck up, so he won.
Feeling he was robbed is just sentiment...
IMO (IMO!!!!!!!!!! NO FACTS HERE) it's just way easier for Zerg to throw games than it is for T, Taeja played really well and made full use of his highground 4rth/5th bases which SoO couldn't attack... The only possible balance issue I could point at here is the ease of defending those tightly choked lategame bases with a planetary whereas Zerg and the melee army suck against those :-(
Meh.
I just wanted Soo to win and not having him at Blizzcon is stupid...
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On November 04 2014 19:00 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2014 18:53 Thax wrote:On November 04 2014 08:11 SC2Toastie wrote:
Holy crap. I can do nothing but say SoO was robbed 0_0
In games 2/3 it just looked like he was so, so, so far ahead, but as Taeja was willing to turtle on highground with planetaries, there was nothing Soo could do to close it out but wait for Taeja to fuck up..... :-(
I'm sad T_T ? How was he robbed when he lost fairly? Taeja wasn't nearly as turtle-y as he could have been. As you said yourself Taeja didn't fuck up, so he won. Feeling he was robbed is just sentiment... IMO (IMO!!!!!!!!!! NO FACTS HERE) it's just way easier for Zerg to throw games than it is for T, Taeja played really well and made full use of his highground 4rth/5th bases which SoO couldn't attack... The only possible balance issue I could point at here is the ease of defending those tightly choked lategame bases with a planetary whereas Zerg and the melee army suck against those :-( Meh. I just wanted Soo to win and not having him at Blizzcon is stupid...
I'm also very sad that soO isn't at BlizzCon but there is no way you can deny that soO's strat was totally suboptimal... I mean what is this 8-muta style, with unsupported ultras (G3) or with no high tech transition at all (G1)...
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On November 04 2014 19:18 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2014 19:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On November 04 2014 18:53 Thax wrote:On November 04 2014 08:11 SC2Toastie wrote:
Holy crap. I can do nothing but say SoO was robbed 0_0
In games 2/3 it just looked like he was so, so, so far ahead, but as Taeja was willing to turtle on highground with planetaries, there was nothing Soo could do to close it out but wait for Taeja to fuck up..... :-(
I'm sad T_T ? How was he robbed when he lost fairly? Taeja wasn't nearly as turtle-y as he could have been. As you said yourself Taeja didn't fuck up, so he won. Feeling he was robbed is just sentiment... IMO (IMO!!!!!!!!!! NO FACTS HERE) it's just way easier for Zerg to throw games than it is for T, Taeja played really well and made full use of his highground 4rth/5th bases which SoO couldn't attack... The only possible balance issue I could point at here is the ease of defending those tightly choked lategame bases with a planetary whereas Zerg and the melee army suck against those :-( Meh. I just wanted Soo to win and not having him at Blizzcon is stupid... I'm also very sad that soO isn't at BlizzCon but there is no way you can deny that soO's strat was totally suboptimal... I mean what is this 8-muta style, with unsupported ultras (G3) or with no high tech transition at all (G1)...
Well, the 8 muta strat got him to lategame ahead of Taeja twice, in that lategame Taeja seemed untouchable until he messed up once and lost a game.
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On November 04 2014 19:39 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2014 19:18 OtherWorld wrote:On November 04 2014 19:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On November 04 2014 18:53 Thax wrote:On November 04 2014 08:11 SC2Toastie wrote:
Holy crap. I can do nothing but say SoO was robbed 0_0
In games 2/3 it just looked like he was so, so, so far ahead, but as Taeja was willing to turtle on highground with planetaries, there was nothing Soo could do to close it out but wait for Taeja to fuck up..... :-(
I'm sad T_T ? How was he robbed when he lost fairly? Taeja wasn't nearly as turtle-y as he could have been. As you said yourself Taeja didn't fuck up, so he won. Feeling he was robbed is just sentiment... IMO (IMO!!!!!!!!!! NO FACTS HERE) it's just way easier for Zerg to throw games than it is for T, Taeja played really well and made full use of his highground 4rth/5th bases which SoO couldn't attack... The only possible balance issue I could point at here is the ease of defending those tightly choked lategame bases with a planetary whereas Zerg and the melee army suck against those :-( Meh. I just wanted Soo to win and not having him at Blizzcon is stupid... I'm also very sad that soO isn't at BlizzCon but there is no way you can deny that soO's strat was totally suboptimal... I mean what is this 8-muta style, with unsupported ultras (G3) or with no high tech transition at all (G1)... Well, the 8 muta strat got him to lategame ahead of Taeja twice, in that lategame Taeja seemed untouchable until he messed up once and lost a game.
It got him to the lategame, but he was never able to kill the medivacs in straight-up engagements (which is essential, not only does it weaken the bioball but it forces the Terran to remake them, which costs mineral and gas, as well as limiting the drop potential), was forced to use lings to deny drops because his mutas weren't enough (there is no way you can afford to lose one or two mutas for each defended drop as Zerg...), nor was he able to deny the Terran's fourth which in ZvT is absolutely essential if you don't want to get rolled over, and most importantly he couldn't give the killing blow to TaeJa, which in a ZvT with a big muta ball (no need to go up to insane amounts like 40, 20+ mutas only do the job) consists of going straight for the Terran's infrastructure to either wreck his production facilities or force him to stay in his base while you're free to deny his fourth/creep the map like a madman/tech to Ultra/BL/festor/whatever combination feels good to you.
What's the point of getting to the lategame ahead of your opponent if you can't kill him before he comes back in the game?
(I mean look at G1, 25 minutes into the game ressources lost are at ~30K for TaeJa and ~47K for soO. That's ok when the Zerg is on five/six bases and the Terran is on three/four in the worst case scenario. Not when both players are on five bases.
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Did we all miss the main thing of game 3????
I was watching game 3 again, to try to understand what happened exactly. I went to 25 min mark just a few moments away from the first big engament whch Teaja barely holds and can come back from there.
You certainly remember Artosis and Apollo being surprised that soO didn't manage to land any fungal (which would have given him the game), Artosis says : "pathogen gland must have been mis-timed" (btw retrospectively Artosis cast is hilarious)
Well, I got a scoop : soO never researched pathogen gland in the frist place. And he won't research it at allint the rest of the game.
I can be wrong, cause wcs gameheart is not as complete as I would want to, and the observer kept showing the army value (pop, min, gaz) panel during big engagemenst. Also, Flo never showed the upgrade panel.
But not a single time in the whole game you see pathogen gland being researched, and as it is a 80 sec I think we should have seen it in the few glimpses of the production panel the observer allowed to get.
At 26mins soO seems unbeatable, at 30 he's behind and out of gaz.
And all comes from from the fact that he didn't research pathogen glands!
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On November 04 2014 21:47 Gwavajuice wrote:
Did we all miss the main thing of game 3????
I was watching game 3 again, to try to understand what happened exactly. I went to 25 min mark just a few moments away from the first big engament whch Teaja barely holds and can come back from there.
You certainly remember Artosis and Apollo being surprised that soO didn't manage to land any fungal (which would have given him the game), Artosis says : "pathogen gland must have been mis-timed" (btw retrospectively Artosis cast is hilarious)
Well, I got a scoop : soO never researched pathogen gland in the frist place. And he won't research it at allint the rest of the game.
I can be wrong, cause wcs gameheart is not as complete as I would want to, and the observer kept showing the army value (pop, min, gaz) panel during big engagemenst. Also, Flo never showed the upgrade panel.
But not a single time in the whole game you see pathogen gland being researched, and as it is a 80 sec I think we should have seen it in the few glimpses of the production panel the observer allowed to get.
At 26mins soO seems unbeatable, at 30 he's behind and out of gaz.
And all comes from from the fact that he didn't research pathogen glands!
You're right, he forgot, which made using fungal in that first fight at 26:05 impossible. This may have tipped the scale in favour of Taeja, though I don't know if it'd be that clear cut. The infestors were too far behind to get any meaningful fungals on the bio army at the start of the fight, Then one of them got pretty close at around 26:15, having the potential to kill off a few extra units, but soO already lost a lot at that point.
The next set arrived at 27:30, they had enough time to build up energy, and he also used them in the fight at 28:15. To me, which is a rather amateur view, the reason Taeja won in the lategame was because he consistently traded efficiently, had an insane infrastructure to keep producing units really fast, and never completely lost his army. Notice how Taeja, despite being Terran, never really went under 50 army supply. Even with fungals, soO didn't have the power to push through that marauder based army with enough units to really put a dent into Taeja's base, until the frequent drops just were too much. With the style soO played he needed to control the map and never let Taeja expand beyond 4-5 bases, because he was always going to be less cost efficient. That 10 ultra re-max around 32 minutes was the nail in the (gas-)coffin with Taeja having an insane number of marauders and medivacs, especially because he didn't take most gasses on the top left for a long time, so he could only make zerglings and lose the game from there.
A major strength of Zerg is surprise tech switches, and with his insane amount of time and money he could've tried parking some swarm hosts or brood lords on the map just to mess with Taeja, but he kept sticking to a cost-inefficient style while not being able to assert himself on Taeja's half of the map, which will always result in defeat in the end.
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On November 04 2014 22:49 Neemi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2014 21:47 Gwavajuice wrote:
Did we all miss the main thing of game 3????
I was watching game 3 again, to try to understand what happened exactly. I went to 25 min mark just a few moments away from the first big engament whch Teaja barely holds and can come back from there.
You certainly remember Artosis and Apollo being surprised that soO didn't manage to land any fungal (which would have given him the game), Artosis says : "pathogen gland must have been mis-timed" (btw retrospectively Artosis cast is hilarious)
Well, I got a scoop : soO never researched pathogen gland in the frist place. And he won't research it at allint the rest of the game.
I can be wrong, cause wcs gameheart is not as complete as I would want to, and the observer kept showing the army value (pop, min, gaz) panel during big engagemenst. Also, Flo never showed the upgrade panel.
But not a single time in the whole game you see pathogen gland being researched, and as it is a 80 sec I think we should have seen it in the few glimpses of the production panel the observer allowed to get.
At 26mins soO seems unbeatable, at 30 he's behind and out of gaz.
And all comes from from the fact that he didn't research pathogen glands!
You're right, he fogot, but that's overstating the importance of it. It takes up 25 seconds to get enough energy for fungal growth though
25 energy = 45 seconds
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On November 04 2014 22:52 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2014 22:49 Neemi wrote:On November 04 2014 21:47 Gwavajuice wrote:
Did we all miss the main thing of game 3????
I was watching game 3 again, to try to understand what happened exactly. I went to 25 min mark just a few moments away from the first big engament whch Teaja barely holds and can come back from there.
You certainly remember Artosis and Apollo being surprised that soO didn't manage to land any fungal (which would have given him the game), Artosis says : "pathogen gland must have been mis-timed" (btw retrospectively Artosis cast is hilarious)
Well, I got a scoop : soO never researched pathogen gland in the frist place. And he won't research it at allint the rest of the game.
I can be wrong, cause wcs gameheart is not as complete as I would want to, and the observer kept showing the army value (pop, min, gaz) panel during big engagemenst. Also, Flo never showed the upgrade panel.
But not a single time in the whole game you see pathogen gland being researched, and as it is a 80 sec I think we should have seen it in the few glimpses of the production panel the observer allowed to get.
At 26mins soO seems unbeatable, at 30 he's behind and out of gaz.
And all comes from from the fact that he didn't research pathogen glands!
You're right, he fogot, but that's overstating the importance of it. It takes up 25 seconds to get enough energy for fungal growth though 25 energy = 45 seconds
Damn, you're right, for so long I was convinced it was one energy per game second, but that's only true for point defense drones apparently. Then I take back what I said.
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On November 04 2014 22:49 Neemi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2014 21:47 Gwavajuice wrote:
Did we all miss the main thing of game 3????
I was watching game 3 again, to try to understand what happened exactly. I went to 25 min mark just a few moments away from the first big engament whch Teaja barely holds and can come back from there.
You certainly remember Artosis and Apollo being surprised that soO didn't manage to land any fungal (which would have given him the game), Artosis says : "pathogen gland must have been mis-timed" (btw retrospectively Artosis cast is hilarious)
Well, I got a scoop : soO never researched pathogen gland in the frist place. And he won't research it at allint the rest of the game.
I can be wrong, cause wcs gameheart is not as complete as I would want to, and the observer kept showing the army value (pop, min, gaz) panel during big engagemenst. Also, Flo never showed the upgrade panel.
But not a single time in the whole game you see pathogen gland being researched, and as it is a 80 sec I think we should have seen it in the few glimpses of the production panel the observer allowed to get.
At 26mins soO seems unbeatable, at 30 he's behind and out of gaz.
And all comes from from the fact that he didn't research pathogen glands!
You're right, he fogot, but that's overstating the importance of it. It takes up 25 seconds to get enough energy for fungal growth though, they popped at 25:36 and they fought at 26:06, but the infestors were too far behind still to get any meaningful fungals on the bio army. Then one of them got pretty close at around 26:15, definitely having enough energy, but soo didn't use it. The next set arrived at 27:30, and they too had more than enough time to build up energy, also hitting them in the fight at 28:15. The reason Taeja won in the lategame was because he consistently traded efficiently, had an insane infrastructure to keep producing units really fast and never completely lost his army. Notice how Taeja, despite being Terran, never really went under 50 army supply. Even with fungals, soO didn't have the power to push through that marauder based army with enough units to really put a dent into Taeja's base, until the frequent drops just were too much. With the style soO played he needed to control the map and never let Taeja expand beyond 4-5 bases, because he was always going to be less cost efficient. That 10 ultra re-max around 32 minutes was the nail in the (gas-)coffin with Taeja having an insane number of marauders and medivacs, especially because he didn't take most gasses on the top left for a long time, so he could only make zerglings and lose the game from there. A major strength of Zerg is surprise tech switches, and with his insane amount of time and money he could've tried parking some swarm hosts or brood lords on the map just to mess with Taeja, but he kept sticking to a cost-inefficient style while not being able to assert himself on Taeja's half of the map, which will always result in defeat in the end.
No... just no... Fungals are a huge deal. why would he make infestors if not to fungal, marauder are cost effective against ultra until they are not allowed to kite anymore. I agree it's not WoL's fungals anymore but in this situation it seems obvious that fungals are needed. Ultra need a crowd control support, it's as old as sc2...
2 fungals at the 26 min mark fight and game is won.
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On November 04 2014 23:33 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2014 22:49 Neemi wrote:On November 04 2014 21:47 Gwavajuice wrote:
Did we all miss the main thing of game 3????
I was watching game 3 again, to try to understand what happened exactly. I went to 25 min mark just a few moments away from the first big engament whch Teaja barely holds and can come back from there.
You certainly remember Artosis and Apollo being surprised that soO didn't manage to land any fungal (which would have given him the game), Artosis says : "pathogen gland must have been mis-timed" (btw retrospectively Artosis cast is hilarious)
Well, I got a scoop : soO never researched pathogen gland in the frist place. And he won't research it at allint the rest of the game.
I can be wrong, cause wcs gameheart is not as complete as I would want to, and the observer kept showing the army value (pop, min, gaz) panel during big engagemenst. Also, Flo never showed the upgrade panel.
But not a single time in the whole game you see pathogen gland being researched, and as it is a 80 sec I think we should have seen it in the few glimpses of the production panel the observer allowed to get.
At 26mins soO seems unbeatable, at 30 he's behind and out of gaz.
And all comes from from the fact that he didn't research pathogen glands!
You're right, he fogot, but that's overstating the importance of it. It takes up 25 seconds to get enough energy for fungal growth though, they popped at 25:36 and they fought at 26:06, but the infestors were too far behind still to get any meaningful fungals on the bio army. Then one of them got pretty close at around 26:15, definitely having enough energy, but soo didn't use it. The next set arrived at 27:30, and they too had more than enough time to build up energy, also hitting them in the fight at 28:15. The reason Taeja won in the lategame was because he consistently traded efficiently, had an insane infrastructure to keep producing units really fast and never completely lost his army. Notice how Taeja, despite being Terran, never really went under 50 army supply. Even with fungals, soO didn't have the power to push through that marauder based army with enough units to really put a dent into Taeja's base, until the frequent drops just were too much. With the style soO played he needed to control the map and never let Taeja expand beyond 4-5 bases, because he was always going to be less cost efficient. That 10 ultra re-max around 32 minutes was the nail in the (gas-)coffin with Taeja having an insane number of marauders and medivacs, especially because he didn't take most gasses on the top left for a long time, so he could only make zerglings and lose the game from there. A major strength of Zerg is surprise tech switches, and with his insane amount of time and money he could've tried parking some swarm hosts or brood lords on the map just to mess with Taeja, but he kept sticking to a cost-inefficient style while not being able to assert himself on Taeja's half of the map, which will always result in defeat in the end. No... just no... Fungals are a huge deal. why would he make infestors if not to fungal, marauder are cost effective against ultra until they are not allowed to kite anymore. I agree it's not WoL's fungals anymore but in this situation it seems obvious that fungals are needed. Ultra need a crowd control support, it's as old as sc2... 2 fungals at the 26 min mark fight and game is won.
A random exploding CC at 10 seconds in and the game is won.
It's so easy to nitpick mistakes in hindsight.......
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On November 04 2014 23:58 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2014 23:33 Gwavajuice wrote:On November 04 2014 22:49 Neemi wrote:On November 04 2014 21:47 Gwavajuice wrote:
Did we all miss the main thing of game 3????
I was watching game 3 again, to try to understand what happened exactly. I went to 25 min mark just a few moments away from the first big engament whch Teaja barely holds and can come back from there.
You certainly remember Artosis and Apollo being surprised that soO didn't manage to land any fungal (which would have given him the game), Artosis says : "pathogen gland must have been mis-timed" (btw retrospectively Artosis cast is hilarious)
Well, I got a scoop : soO never researched pathogen gland in the frist place. And he won't research it at allint the rest of the game.
I can be wrong, cause wcs gameheart is not as complete as I would want to, and the observer kept showing the army value (pop, min, gaz) panel during big engagemenst. Also, Flo never showed the upgrade panel.
But not a single time in the whole game you see pathogen gland being researched, and as it is a 80 sec I think we should have seen it in the few glimpses of the production panel the observer allowed to get.
At 26mins soO seems unbeatable, at 30 he's behind and out of gaz.
And all comes from from the fact that he didn't research pathogen glands!
You're right, he fogot, but that's overstating the importance of it. It takes up 25 seconds to get enough energy for fungal growth though, they popped at 25:36 and they fought at 26:06, but the infestors were too far behind still to get any meaningful fungals on the bio army. Then one of them got pretty close at around 26:15, definitely having enough energy, but soo didn't use it. The next set arrived at 27:30, and they too had more than enough time to build up energy, also hitting them in the fight at 28:15. The reason Taeja won in the lategame was because he consistently traded efficiently, had an insane infrastructure to keep producing units really fast and never completely lost his army. Notice how Taeja, despite being Terran, never really went under 50 army supply. Even with fungals, soO didn't have the power to push through that marauder based army with enough units to really put a dent into Taeja's base, until the frequent drops just were too much. With the style soO played he needed to control the map and never let Taeja expand beyond 4-5 bases, because he was always going to be less cost efficient. That 10 ultra re-max around 32 minutes was the nail in the (gas-)coffin with Taeja having an insane number of marauders and medivacs, especially because he didn't take most gasses on the top left for a long time, so he could only make zerglings and lose the game from there. A major strength of Zerg is surprise tech switches, and with his insane amount of time and money he could've tried parking some swarm hosts or brood lords on the map just to mess with Taeja, but he kept sticking to a cost-inefficient style while not being able to assert himself on Taeja's half of the map, which will always result in defeat in the end. No... just no... Fungals are a huge deal. why would he make infestors if not to fungal, marauder are cost effective against ultra until they are not allowed to kite anymore. I agree it's not WoL's fungals anymore but in this situation it seems obvious that fungals are needed. Ultra need a crowd control support, it's as old as sc2... 2 fungals at the 26 min mark fight and game is won. A random exploding CC at 10 seconds in and the game is won. It's so easy to nitpick mistakes in hindsight.......
That isn't nickpicking. That was a key moment in the game. soO had 4 infestors that did nothing. He didn't even used infested terrans and lost a fight he probably should have won. Chasing taeja's army into a choke created by his unfinished CC also didn't help.
Try watching the game on mute. The casters were ignoring everything good taeja was doing. Like getting 2 sensor towers to prevent the flanks that kept crushing his armies in game 1 and 2. Or when he sniped soO's expansion during a big fight. It's just how artosis gets with his favorites. Bomber is a 3rd rate terran but clide was somehow spectacular.
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Anyway to know if San's colossus drop was planned or was just inspiration from Classic (or trolling) ?
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those 19 workers won him the game.
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EPT
