[IEM] Cologne Day 1 - Open Bracket - Page 25

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[UoN]Sentinel

United States11320 Posts

February 13 2014 15:49 GMT

#481

On February 14 2014 00:48 Darkhoarse wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah I bet Hasuobs prepared specifically for San, which makes it nice for him that he got to play him twice.

Sucks that if he wins he'll have to go against MC again tho

Lazzi

Switzerland1923 Posts

February 13 2014 15:50 GMT

#482

On February 14 2014 00:48 Edpayasugo wrote:
I can't watch the games, but San beat Dear at ASUSU ROG and now can't beat Hasuobs?

Hasu has info from Dear whereas San knows nothing about Hasu

Darkhorse

United States23455 Posts

February 13 2014 15:51 GMT

#483

The main on Heavy Rain is sooooooo big. I'm almost surprised we didn't see proxy 2 gate

MC has the balls to do that.

GumBa

United Kingdom31935 Posts

February 13 2014 15:51 GMT

#484

On February 14 2014 00:46 Darkhoarse wrote:

Show nested quote +

Sneak in. Maximum passion move.

Wcs eu finals I got in without a ticket because the guy at the door was a baller and there was still somw room but not sure If I want to try this time my passion took a huge blow today.

m0ck

4194 Posts

February 13 2014 15:51 GMT

#485

Hasu so unlucky with that scouting :/

NovaMB

Germany9534 Posts

February 13 2014 15:52 GMT

#486

T_T

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

February 13 2014 15:52 GMT

#487

that dt has bathed in oil back on shakuras

Deleted User 137586

7859 Posts

February 13 2014 15:52 GMT

#488

1 mm mis-clicked, and the game is over. These games are great for my work hours.

Undead1993

Germany17651 Posts

February 13 2014 15:52 GMT

#489

i will never understand why you would go for such a coinflip in the last game of your tournament life, same goes for panic in his last game against sos >.<

ThePlagueJG

Sweden1010 Posts

February 13 2014 15:53 GMT

#490

Gogo ManZenith!!

MWY

Germany284 Posts

February 13 2014 15:53 GMT

#491

Hahaha 2:0 win into 1:2 loss. This game is so fucking random its amazing.

deacon.frost

Czech Republic12134 Posts

February 13 2014 15:53 GMT

#492

Have I seen it correctly that Hasu had stucked sentry between robo and gateway? Bad for him.

Darkhorse

United States23455 Posts

February 13 2014 15:53 GMT

#493

Well Heavy Rain is a good blink map. Still think Hasuobs is dead.

FFW_Rude

France10201 Posts

February 13 2014 15:53 GMT

#494

Can people sum what is happening ?

Ramiz1989

12124 Posts

February 13 2014 15:53 GMT

#495

On February 14 2014 00:36 eusoc wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 14 2014 00:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:

On February 14 2014 00:18 Heartland wrote:

On February 14 2014 00:15 Ramiz1989 wrote:

On February 14 2014 00:10 Heartland wrote:

On February 14 2014 00:07 Ramiz1989 wrote:

On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:

On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:

On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:

On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T

Kinda felt that way watching this game too

Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well.

no, they cant oO
i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way.

Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that

What do you mean they can't? Yes, if you have the upgrade Phoenixes outrange the Corruptors, and are faster and shoot while moving. If Phoenixes have the upgrade, the only way to counter them is to pray for Protoss to fuck up and hit a good Fungal so you can kill them, no Zerg flying army can match them.

This is not me whining about Phoenixes, a lot of things in SC2 are like that as well and you always have to have hard counters against certain units than the opponent is making hard counters to your hard counters etc. I hope that they change at least something for LotV.

There are things that are an issue in sc2. Phoenix vs Corruptor is not one of them. It's entirely dependent on the game beforehand. If your base is camped with muta and corruptor while you try to kite with your phoenix it doesn't matter if the Zerg army can't catch it - because it doesn't have to. The corruptors are a meat shield for the mutas who do the damage. This is really not a problem in the game because it all depends on how things have unfolded beforehand.

Sorry but that is very narrow way of looking at it. Yes, if you are in base, you don't have to catch the Phoenixes but Phoenixes will just keep hit and running back and forth and will kill your units if you don't do anything. I can see how you as a Protoss player think that it is fine when you get big number of Phoenixes with the upgrade to counter whole Zerg air arsenal.

Hitting perfect Fungals requires for Protoss player to make a mistake with his Phoenixes, and even then, if you are having ground units such as Archons, Stalkers or with few Void Rays your Muta + Corruptor ball won't be doing much.

My entire point here is that these situations depend on what's happened before. Economy, bases, army compositions, supply, upgrades and positioning. It's really different to fight five Phoenix vs five Corruptors, or fifteen vs fifteen Corruptors and Mutas, to fight over open space, in a base, close to an army or far away from it. It seems really hard for Zerg to fight in the open, away from reinforcements and away from bases, given that there is enough of a count of Phoenix vs air. But it's also really tough to fight in other situations with Phoenix vs Zerg air. So I think it comes down a lot to those situations I mentioned before, and also to micro. Which is why I think it's fine.

Of course it depends from situation to situation, but I don't think that it is fine. Generally speaking, Mutas + Corruptors are too good against Phoenixes and when Phoenix upgrade is finished, then it is the other way around. There is supposed to be some middle ground where you actually micro your units and those with better micro win. Not unable to do anything when your Phoenixes have the upgrade or when they don't, I just hold position with Corruptors and Phoenixes are close to useless.

It's actually pretty difficult to take advantage of the 1 range difference, as corruptor move slower than mutas, you need to keep the right speed. And a single fungal catching phoenixes is gg. With muta/corruptor you also have more map control and more economy. Just watch soO vs sOs on alterzim, sOs couldn't get enough phoenixes nor pressure soO expanding nor expanding himself.

One match is pretty bad representation of what you are trying to say. The thing is sOs couldn't get enough Phoenixes on time because he didn't read SoO well enough, he started to produce Phoenixes and had 7 of them when SoO was on 30 Mutas and 22 Corruptors, well of course he couldn't do anything with that number... I can also say that you can watch Classic against Rogue on Frost.

Where Rogue didn't do enough damage early on, Classic managed to get high Phoenix count together with Archons, and massive Mutas, Corruptors and Infestor army couldn't do anything.

As I said in my previous post, Muta + Corruptor have the advantage up to the point when Phoenix upgrade is done, than it is the other way around. I've seen many games where Phoenixes(with solid numbers, not just few of them) with range upgrade just destroy Mutas + Corruptors. I just hate how Phoenixes, Corruptors and Mutas interact with each other, and how advantage from one player just turn into advantage for another with just one upgrade. The advantage shouldn't be there to begin with but this is just how Starcraft 2 works and many many things are like this.

NovaMB

Germany9534 Posts

February 13 2014 15:54 GMT

#496

Hasu stahp, you already have a Twilight

Undead1993

Germany17651 Posts

February 13 2014 15:54 GMT

#497

another tc for hasu

Darkhorse

United States23455 Posts

February 13 2014 15:55 GMT

#498

On February 14 2014 00:53 MWY wrote:
Hahaha 2:0 win into 1:2 loss. This game is so fucking random its amazing.

Yeah because in no game ever besides SC2 has a team lost and then later won against the same team. Oh wait no, that has happened in every sport that has double headers ever.

polpot

3002 Posts

February 13 2014 15:55 GMT

#499

second twilight damn

[UoN]Sentinel

United States11320 Posts

February 13 2014 15:55 GMT

#500

On February 14 2014 00:53 FFW_Rude wrote:
Can people sum what is happening ?

San is on 2 base, Hasu is on. San did a lot of damage to Hasu's economy with a DT. Hasu is currently blink harassing with ~6 stalkers while he expands at home. Winner of this game plays MC.

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[IEM] Cologne Day 1 - Open Bracket - Page 25

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