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On February 08 2014 06:36 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:34 vthree wrote:On February 08 2014 06:26 Nebuchad wrote:
Well you're commentating to an audience that contains about 50% of people who look down on protoss just for playing their race. If that speaks to an awareness on their part, it speaks to an awareness of who they're talking to.
Conditions have also changed. It's much more accepted today that we get to speak our mind about the game, because, you know, everyone's a professional designer. When a game is popular you don't pop up and say "oh btw I wish they would fire a whole staff of people because I have a small complaint." So what the fuck are you trying to say? That you don't speak about starcraft 2 in the same way in 2011 and in 2014, and that Tastosis' attitude made sense given the current state of the community. Basically, exactly what I said.
Really, people discussed about balance the same way back then, it was just that TL was a lot more strict.
Every time we had a Terran 1-1-1, we had 2-3 pages of Protoss tears.
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On February 08 2014 06:36 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:30 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 08 2014 01:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On February 08 2014 01:14 lichter wrote:I should keep predicting P to advance lol  Join in the 15 protoss ro16 trolling with Tastosis, rofl On that note, I don't think I've ever heard them take this "it's so bad it's funny" tone when talking about this kind of thing. Back when Killer was the only Protoss in the Round of 16, they made a lot of reference to it, but it was with a completely different almost tragic tone. It's interesting to me. Makes me wonder which period they think is worse. At least then you could point to a single build order causing all of the mess. Now it's just a wider variety of bigger issues. Not to mention that GSL back then was for 1 month not like it is for 3 months now...
I hadn't considered that, that's probably also a factor.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
hrmmm, no vods yet. they've always been fast before
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We're the games really as poor as the audience suggests?
Also - Dat racial balance xD Yo here's 4P3Z1T and only 4 can go on..... Not having seen the games ofc.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
some of the games were decent but nothing i'd go out of my way to watch - 2/3 star sounds about right for most of them
the protosses were also the superior players in their groups, nothing much to complain about.
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On February 08 2014 07:02 opterown wrote:
some of the games were decent but nothing i'd go out of my way to watch - 2/3 star sounds about right for most of them
the protosses were also the superior players in their groups, nothing much to complain about.
How can you say for certain which players were superior if balance is a factor? Good players look horrible too when they lose because of balance.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
they've been the clearly better players even when before protoss was doing well, i don't think you can really argue otherwise
herO and rain are clearly better than drg, solar put up a good fight against rain too
trap and zest are also better players than suno and leenock, throughout all of last year
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I have to agree that in Group B Trap and Zest looked like the superior players regardless of balance. Frankly, I don't think either Leenock or SuperNova played very well (and this makes me sad to say because I'm fans of both). Both players seemed wedded to obsolete (or as Tasteless would say, "anachronistic") and easily countered strategies: La-Z-Boy all-ins for SuperNova (he just replaced vikings with ghosts) and roach/hydra timings with either fast corruptor or fast viper for Leenock. SuperNova never tried mech against P (maybe Stats' carriers scared him off?) and Leenock seemed determined to play as if it's a year ago when early HotS Zerg strategies were often "let's hit a fast viper timing and hope Protoss doesn't know what to do." The one time one of these players tried a semi-creative strategy (Leenock's offensive hatch on Daedalus) was the one game they won against P.
The one non-P that I think deserved to go through so far is Solar. I think if Solar had been in Group B, he might have made it through, possibly even in first place.
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On February 08 2014 07:55 Yakikorosu wrote:
I have to agree that in Group B Trap and Zest looked like the superior players regardless of balance. Frankly, I don't think either Leenock or SuperNova played very well (and this makes me sad to say because I'm fans of both). Both players seemed wedded to obsolete (or as Tasteless would say, "anachronistic") and easily countered strategies: La-Z-Boy all-ins for SuperNova (he just replaced vikings with ghosts) and roach/hydra timings with either fast corruptor or fast viper for Leenock. SuperNova never tried mech against P (maybe Stats' carriers scared him off?) and Leenock seemed determined to play as if it's a year ago when early HotS Zerg strategies were often "let's hit a fast viper timing and hope Protoss doesn't know what to do." The one time one of these players tried a semi-creative strategy (Leenock's offensive hatch on Daedalus) was the one game they won against P.
The one non-P that I think deserved to go through so far is Solar. I think if Solar had been in Group B, he might have made it through, possibly even in first place.
Leenock + Trap seemed equal in my opinion. Leenock however just hasn't improved his skill set and was destroyed. Lack of vision in game 2 led to him losing 2 bases and the main bases tech. Meanwhile in that same game after a massive lead in tech, supply, bases, and tech units he couldn't close until very late. He had the ability to close even with the decent army Leenock, but allowed him to get back into the game. I found the group to be rather unimpressive though other than zest who I haven't seen much of.
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This is exactly why I'm not going to support GOMtv with its current abyssimal VOD system.
All these years of being a premium+ subscriber. No more.
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On February 08 2014 07:14 opterown wrote:
they've been the clearly better players even when before protoss was doing well, i don't think you can really argue otherwise
herO and rain are clearly better than drg, solar put up a good fight against rain too
trap and zest are also better players than suno and leenock, throughout all of last year
In terms of individual leagues, I don't think there is any way to put SuperNova behind Zest in 2013. Maybe in PL which SuperNova didn't play in.
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On February 08 2014 07:55 Yakikorosu wrote:
I have to agree that in Group B Trap and Zest looked like the superior players regardless of balance. Frankly, I don't think either Leenock or SuperNova played very well (and this makes me sad to say because I'm fans of both). Both players seemed wedded to obsolete (or as Tasteless would say, "anachronistic") and easily countered strategies: La-Z-Boy all-ins for SuperNova (he just replaced vikings with ghosts) and roach/hydra timings with either fast corruptor or fast viper for Leenock. SuperNova never tried mech against P (maybe Stats' carriers scared him off?) and Leenock seemed determined to play as if it's a year ago when early HotS Zerg strategies were often "let's hit a fast viper timing and hope Protoss doesn't know what to do." The one time one of these players tried a semi-creative strategy (Leenock's offensive hatch on Daedalus) was the one game they won against P.
The one non-P that I think deserved to go through so far is Solar. I think if Solar had been in Group B, he might have made it through, possibly even in first place.
Very few Terrans have tried mech vs P. Maybe there is something they need to figure out, or maybe it just doesn't work well against Protoss that know what they are doing. Since Terrans play mech in TvT and starting to play it more in TvZ, I don't really see a reason to not play it in TvP if they can have success with it.
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On February 08 2014 07:14 opterown wrote:
they've been the clearly better players even when before protoss was doing well, i don't think you can really argue otherwise
herO and rain are clearly better than drg, solar put up a good fight against rain too
trap and zest are also better players than suno and leenock, throughout all of last year
Clearly? Who is Zest, lol?
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Northern Ireland27001 Posts
On February 08 2014 06:38 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:36 Nebuchad wrote:On February 08 2014 06:34 vthree wrote:On February 08 2014 06:26 Nebuchad wrote:
Well you're commentating to an audience that contains about 50% of people who look down on protoss just for playing their race. If that speaks to an awareness on their part, it speaks to an awareness of who they're talking to.
Conditions have also changed. It's much more accepted today that we get to speak our mind about the game, because, you know, everyone's a professional designer. When a game is popular you don't pop up and say "oh btw I wish they would fire a whole staff of people because I have a small complaint." So what the fuck are you trying to say? That you don't speak about starcraft 2 in the same way in 2011 and in 2014, and that Tastosis' attitude made sense given the current state of the community. Basically, exactly what I said. Really, people discussed about balance the same way back then, it was just that TL was a lot more strict. Every time we had a Terran 1-1-1, we had 2-3 pages of Protoss tears.
Mostly because it was a really silly build on maps like Xel'Naga, nigh-on unstoppable on that one specific map.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
the only thing i ever got seriously mad about was mules mining extra from gold bases
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On February 08 2014 12:42 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 07:14 opterown wrote:
they've been the clearly better players even when before protoss was doing well, i don't think you can really argue otherwise
herO and rain are clearly better than drg, solar put up a good fight against rain too
trap and zest are also better players than suno and leenock, throughout all of last year Clearly? Who is Zest, lol?
you're rusty, indeed!
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Sweden33719 Posts
Thought Supernova could have won the first game vs Trap if he didn't for some reason decide to, when ahead 3 base to 2 and with superior tech, SCV allin into a turtling storm protoss....
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What the hell is wrong with the Twitch VODs? My gosh...
Some of them are like stuck processing or something?
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:/ looks like all leagues are becoming PvPleague.. Or PvPtv
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EPT
