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On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:33 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race. That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events. So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well? Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1. Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.  Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
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On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:33 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race. That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events. So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well? Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1. Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
Aligulac statistics has to be taken with a grain of salt especially in that era when international play wasn't common. Even now, players that get to play foreigners have a HUGE advantage on Aligulac. Or do you think Mvp is a top 10 player.
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On February 06 2014 22:57 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:56 Tsubbi wrote:
could anyone plz briefly summarize the parting vs soulkey games for those at work? ![[image loading]](http://www.mybrokenfiat.com/uploads/7/3/4/6/7346785/1445429.jpg) edit: of course I make this post right before Parting loses to speedlings walking into his base lol
Actually, this pic is still an accurate description. Parting slapped Soulkey down real easily in game 1, then Soulkey returned the favor in game 2. Hopefully game 3 is a little more back and forth!
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On February 06 2014 22:57 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:56 Tsubbi wrote:
could anyone plz briefly summarize the parting vs soulkey games for those at work? edit: of course I make this post right before Parting loses to speedlings walking into his base lol
Payback!
+ Show Spoiler +
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On February 06 2014 23:02 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:33 Xoronius wrote:
[quote]
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events. So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well? Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1. Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals. I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!). I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time.
And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
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On February 06 2014 23:04 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:57 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 06 2014 22:56 Tsubbi wrote:
could anyone plz briefly summarize the parting vs soulkey games for those at work? edit: of course I make this post right before Parting loses to speedlings walking into his base lol Actually, this pic is still an accurate description. Parting slapped Soulkey down real easily in game 1, then Soulkey returned the favor in game 2. Hopefully game 3 is a little more back and forth!
Can't get more back and forth than 2 manly men in their underwear trading blow for blow.
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On February 06 2014 23:05 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:02 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well? Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1. Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals. I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!). I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D) I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time. And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
So I win?! ♥
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On February 06 2014 22:56 Tsubbi wrote:
could anyone plz briefly summarize the parting vs soulkey games for those at work?
Game 1 (Heavy Rain): Gateway expand with 2 gases for Parting into gateway and stargate in wall, oracle first. Soulkey hatch gas pool, gets 6 lings in to the main, doesn't do a lot of damage. Soulkey takes third, gets lair, hydra den, evo, infestation pit etc, Parting takes ~8 min third with sentries. Starts blink and kills Soulkeys 4th while Soulkey is building SHs and doesn't have enough to defend it. Parting gets some collosus up, both players move around a little with their armies, Parting takes a 4th, catches some SHs out of position, Soulkey ggs at equal supply.
Game 2(Yeonsu): Parting goes for a quick gateway and chronos out a zealot then expands. Soulkey hatch first. The zealot gets into the main mineral line before lings are out, gets 2 drone kills. Since Parting expanded before cyber core he only has a zealot for defense and his wall is late so Soulkey makes a lot of lings and kills natural and some probes, is way ahead. Parting retakes natural with some sentries, tries to do some damage with force fields etc but is just too far behind and dies to Soulkey's roach ling attack.
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On February 06 2014 23:04 Ketch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:57 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 06 2014 22:56 Tsubbi wrote:
could anyone plz briefly summarize the parting vs soulkey games for those at work? edit: of course I make this post right before Parting loses to speedlings walking into his base lol Payback! + Show Spoiler +
hahahaha, nice
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On February 06 2014 23:05 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:05 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 23:02 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1. Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals. I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!). I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D) I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time. And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not. So I win?! ♥
I have no qualms with TOP like I do with, say, people overrating NesTea, so sure.
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Stream wont load for me. Never had this problem (Chrome).
Any1 else?
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On February 06 2014 23:07 Mozdk wrote:
Stream wont load for me. Never had this problem (Chrome).
Any1 else?
Do you have R1CH's old Twitch proxy thing installed?
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On February 06 2014 23:08 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:07 Mozdk wrote:
Stream wont load for me. Never had this problem (Chrome).
Any1 else? Do you have R1CH's old Twitch proxy thing installed?
No because he said it wasn't needed anymore because it didn't work anymore. And I haven't had problems in 2014
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On February 06 2014 23:05 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:02 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well? Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1. Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals. I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!). I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D) I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time. And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
Ensnare and Virus were ro32 quality players at the time. Let's not forget that for those T's we had protosses like killer and tester and zergs like zenio fruitdealer and cezanne still hanging around who were all about equally terrible at the time.
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On February 06 2014 23:09 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:08 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 06 2014 23:07 Mozdk wrote:
Stream wont load for me. Never had this problem (Chrome).
Any1 else? Do you have R1CH's old Twitch proxy thing installed? No because he said it wasn't needed anymore because it didn't work anymore. And I haven't had problems in 2014
mmm, ok then I'm not sure. try a different browser, I guess
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United States23455 Posts
Shit aLive lost to Cure in round 1 TT
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On February 06 2014 23:09 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:05 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 23:02 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1. Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals. I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!). I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D) I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time. And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not. Ensnare and Virus were ro32 quality players at the time. Let's not forget that for those T's we had protosses like killer and tester and zergs like zenio fruitdealer and cezanne still hanging around who were all about equally terrible at the time.
I guess that's what MOP means by the flawed Code S system. Should've been other players in their place.
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On February 06 2014 23:09 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:05 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 23:02 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1. Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals. I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!). I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D) I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time. And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not. Ensnare and Virus were ro32 quality players at the time. Let's not forget that for those T's we had protosses like killer and tester and zergs like zenio fruitdealer and cezanne still hanging around who were all about equally terrible at the time.
The fact that they were in Ro32 does not mean they belonged there. Same goes for SangHo, TesteR, Zenio, FruitDealer, Cezanne and any others there were in that period of time. The player-cycling system between Code A and Code S was just abysmal until the November season and it showed in the player pool.
On February 06 2014 23:11 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:09 Derez wrote:On February 06 2014 23:05 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 23:02 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:
[quote]
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals. I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!). I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D) I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time. And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not. Ensnare and Virus were ro32 quality players at the time. Let's not forget that for those T's we had protosses like killer and tester and zergs like zenio fruitdealer and cezanne still hanging around who were all about equally terrible at the time. I guess that's what MOP means by the flawed Code S system. Should've been other players in their place.
Precisely!
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On February 06 2014 23:11 Darkhoarse wrote:
Shit aLive lost to Cure in round 1 TT
alive beat Bravo and JYP and lost in the ro32
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On February 06 2014 23:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:05 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 23:05 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 23:02 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:53 DJHelium wrote:On February 06 2014 22:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:50 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:45 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:
[quote]
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career. It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so. Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP. According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still... You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals. I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!). I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D) I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time. And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not. So I win?! ♥ I have no qualms with TOP like I do with, say, people overrating NesTea, so sure.
Must resist the urge... It´s ok, for today your my ally for the anti-balance-whine discussion.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://funsubstance.com/uploads/preview/19/19440.jpg)
