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On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you
Soulkey has the most WCS points in 2013, making him the first seed in Blizzcon.
And Life has how many?
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On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you
He's not solid for almost a year already.
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On December 07 2013 00:16 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you Soulkey has the most WCS points in 2013, making him the first seed in Blizzcon. And Life has how many?
Life can rank top 200 in WCS points I believe.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On December 07 2013 00:16 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you Soulkey has the most WCS points in 2013, making him the first seed in Blizzcon. And Life has how many?
WCS points is not that great an indicator of skill, especially when you have people like alive and mvp qualifying over more skilled players.
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On December 07 2013 00:17 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:16 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you Soulkey has the most WCS points in 2013, making him the first seed in Blizzcon. And Life has how many? WCS points is not that great an indicator of skill, especially when you have people like alive and mvp qualifying over more skilled players.
Soulkey and Life play in the same league i.e. Korea.
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On December 07 2013 00:17 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:16 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you Soulkey has the most WCS points in 2013, making him the first seed in Blizzcon. And Life has how many? WCS points is not that great an indicator of skill, especially when you have people like alive and mvp qualifying over more skilled players.
+ Show Spoiler +Going down 0-2 to Welmu is a clear indicator of skill though 
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On December 07 2013 00:18 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:17 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:16 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you Soulkey has the most WCS points in 2013, making him the first seed in Blizzcon. And Life has how many? WCS points is not that great an indicator of skill, especially when you have people like alive and mvp qualifying over more skilled players. + Show Spoiler +Going down 0-2 to Welmu is a clear indicator of skill though
Super LOL.
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On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now.
i think the current balance is a double edged sword, overall i agree with you it is in a good spot - but i can't get rid of the idea that it's mainly because the terran matchups follow a pattern every game:
terran does some early game harass while gaining mapcontrol, if the pressure does damage and the terran has no macro slips we see a balanced mid game in which terran again has to do some sort of damage to get an advantage and might win.
now here's the problem, the best metapher is to use is even in the game right now:
tvt mech vs bio, the mech player defends in the early/midgame without taking to much damage, he usually wins (unless some weirdo doom drop goes undetected) - if he doesn't the bio player has a decent shot but still a long way to go
you could say "it's not that hard to do some damage" - but hey, is the offensive "must do damage" part of a flawless game design?
if the terran is the better player he wins, but if some even matched ppl face each other most of the time the z/p wins imho
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On December 07 2013 00:18 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:17 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:16 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you Soulkey has the most WCS points in 2013, making him the first seed in Blizzcon. And Life has how many? WCS points is not that great an indicator of skill, especially when you have people like alive and mvp qualifying over more skilled players. + Show Spoiler +Going down 0-2 to Welmu is a clear indicator of skill though
yeah, and maru went down 0-2 to alive as well. anomalous results happen, life just reverse swept bogus which isn't shabby
look, it really pains me to have to defend life, that dirty startale player, but he is a solid zerg. not on soulkey's level, but he's pretty damn good.
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On December 06 2013 23:50 VKCA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 23:49 vthree wrote:On December 06 2013 23:45 Kitaen wrote:On December 06 2013 23:42 -Celestial- wrote:On December 06 2013 23:41 TheDwf wrote:On December 06 2013 23:40 foxmeep wrote:On December 06 2013 23:38 juvenal wrote:
Mutas gonna get nerfed pretty soon i guess. Or it could be the WM nerf undone. Not building any turrets doesn't exactly call for a muta nerf :/ Building 4+ Turrets per base isn't exactly healthy for your army count either. With how much he was losing to those mutas though I can't help but feel that 4+ turrets per base would have been more cost effective than just saccing stuff. absolutely, its not the biggest deal to make 10-15 turrets in the long run Are you serious? Making that many turrets is a HUGE investment. It is like saying that Protoss don't need nexus cannons because if they made 10-15 regular cannons, they would be fine vs drops and aggression in PvT. Making that much static defense before your 3rd get saturated is a big investment. "in the long run" he's not saying make 10-15 turrets before you get your third saturated, he's saying you should have made 10-15 turrets by the end of a 25 min game (replacing the ones you loose)
More to the point if over multiple raids you're losing several dozen SCVs and literally minutes of mining time you're losing a hell of a lot more value than 10-15 turrets.
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On December 07 2013 00:09 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:03 Big J wrote:On December 06 2013 23:50 Hider wrote:On December 06 2013 23:49 VKCA wrote:On December 06 2013 23:48 Hider wrote:On December 06 2013 23:46 shadymmj wrote:
soulkey is the perfect player, getting better and better
but there is nothing to deny that terran SUCKED after the patch, period. tanks are still not seen as worth building, especially if you leave them abandoned in the middle of the map (cough bomber) lol. Mines actually seems borderline useless atm. Honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw them giving the terrans a cost effective engagement. I think it might just be better to not build any at all and instead get Thors as a reponse to mass Mutas. taeja life dreamhack finals........ I saw that finals and really didn't think Mines provided anything special. Not in battles at least. Indeed, it shut down a bit of counterharass opportunities by Life, however. But that's easily avoidable as Soulkey showed in this game, by not counterattacking with your entire force at once, but actually splitting it up. So against players of less caliber of Soulkey, Widow Mines may still have some utility at stopping counterattacks, but its only a matter of time before they become oboslete I believe. e.g. one moment I remember was Life doing a counterattack and 3mines killing all the 34zerglings. (don't know the game/time anymore, sorry); or of course on Yeonsu when Taeja took that third and Life lost most of his mutas to 10mines (stupid play by life, nontheless, mines have quite huge potential still) I really don't think mines need to be stronger, they instagib stuff that's much more worth than they are without getting destroyed. Whether Mutas are too strong or Zerg in general too strong though, after the mine nerf is a different question. Yes this example is exactly my point. Throughout the entire series, Taeja just lured Life into overaggresive situations, and Life never adapted. But that type of defensive oriented playstyle doesn't have any long-lasting chance, because if Taeja continues to play like that against an opponent who doesn't overcommit, then the zerg is free to tech to hive fast, which IMO favors the zerg. So Taeja used Mines in a way that took advantage of Life's specific weakness - that's kinda it. Mines are used for defensive purposes will over the longer haul proove to be a gimmick as they simply are too supply inefficient. When you play defensive, it is because you expect to have stronger maxed out army than your opponent. At the moment bio + mines doens't provide that. It wouldn't really have worked against Soulkey I believe, as he showed a much better balance between when to defend and when to harass.
Well, we had this kind of comments from avilo "mines will never work with 2supply" throughout all of the HotS beta. And I'm pretty sure that Taeja didn't just abuse Life's overcommiting style, he'd also have used mines against any other Zerg. With nearly all of them being just weaker than Life.
@vthree: yeah, but detonating isn't dying. Mines also sometimes reload before they get destroyed. Any skirmish a Terran wins there will be mines that probably shoot another time. And I think people really overestimate the minenerf, Zergs were doing quite OK before it in TvZ (so I fully agree that it was stupid to nerf them; just that I believe the real problem lies within lategame dynamics, when a Zerg gains momentum and mass Mutas destroying stuff everywhere just prevent the Terran from ever getting momentum back).
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On December 07 2013 00:21 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:18 foxmeep wrote:On December 07 2013 00:17 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:16 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you Soulkey has the most WCS points in 2013, making him the first seed in Blizzcon. And Life has how many? WCS points is not that great an indicator of skill, especially when you have people like alive and mvp qualifying over more skilled players. + Show Spoiler +Going down 0-2 to Welmu is a clear indicator of skill though yeah, and maru went down 0-2 to alive as well. anomalous results happen, life just reverse swept bogus which isn't shabby look, it really pains me to have to defend life, that dirty startale player, but he is a solid zerg. not on soulkey's level, but he's pretty damn good.
To be fair I actually agree with you, it was just funny timing
Right now though, in terms of scary players (not relating to balance, I just think it's how the talent pool is at the moment), I still think it's quite clearly P > T > Z
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 07 2013 00:16 SunflowerSeeds wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you He's not solid for almost a year already.
You're right, he has only won 3(4) championships this year and placed second in a fourth. Not very solid at all unfortunately,
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On December 07 2013 00:42 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:16 SunflowerSeeds wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you He's not solid for almost a year already. You're right, he has only won 3(4) championships this year and placed second in a fourth. Not very solid at all unfortunately,
Was waiting for you. :D
But I don't know why people are saying that Life is not solid. He maybe isn't as consistent with as Soulkey or Jaedong, but on a good day, he really can beat anyone. I would still place him second if I had to rate him as a Zerg player, first being Soulkey.
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OMG Rain based GOD, just had a chance to watch the games.
He's takin this
He's takin it
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On December 07 2013 00:17 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:16 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you Soulkey has the most WCS points in 2013, making him the first seed in Blizzcon. And Life has how many? WCS points is not that great an indicator of skill, especially when you have people like alive and mvp qualifying over more skilled players.
its true, but soulkey collected literally every single point from either WCS KR or WCS season finals, unarguably the 2 hardest tournaments around
also whats your problem with alive here, hes way better than certain other players that were 16th (or higher)
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On December 07 2013 00:42 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:16 SunflowerSeeds wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you He's not solid for almost a year already. You're right, he has only won 3(4) championships this year and placed second in a fourth. Not very solid at all unfortunately,
Any foreign tournament championship doesn't count as legit championship in my eyes. So in my eyes, he's not solid. You can see him as solid as diamond, won't change my mind though.
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On December 07 2013 00:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:42 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 00:16 SunflowerSeeds wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you He's not solid for almost a year already. You're right, he has only won 3(4) championships this year and placed second in a fourth. Not very solid at all unfortunately, Was waiting for you. :D But I don't know why people are saying that Life is not solid. He maybe isn't as consistent with as Soulkey or Jaedong, but on a good day, he really can beat anyone. I would still place him second if I had to rate him as a Zerg player, first being Soulkey.
Any Korean pro on a good day can beat any players. That's how SC2 works.
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United States15275 Posts
On December 07 2013 01:09 SunflowerSeeds wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:42 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 00:16 SunflowerSeeds wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you He's not solid for almost a year already. You're right, he has only won 3(4) championships this year and placed second in a fourth. Not very solid at all unfortunately, Any foreign tournament championship doesn't count as legit championship in my eyes. So in my eyes, he's not solid. You can see him as solid as diamond, won't change my mind though.
There are only two things that matter in a tournament: format and competition. Being "foreigner" is irrelevant to the discussion.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 07 2013 01:09 SunflowerSeeds wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 00:42 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 00:16 SunflowerSeeds wrote:On December 07 2013 00:14 Topin wrote:On December 07 2013 00:12 RKC wrote:On December 07 2013 00:03 opterown wrote:On December 07 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On December 06 2013 23:59 opterown wrote:
i truly believe bogus lost the finals and not soulkey winning, and i don't believe zerg is underperforming at all. sure there are probably 3 top zergs compared to maybe 5 top terrans and 4 top protoss, but that's just normal variance.
anyway, whatever. maru has played spectacularly for the second half of the year, and has only lost to the best of the best, and no-one else really. people laud soulkey's straight RO8s but maru's straight RO4s are nothing to sneeze at. Oh you most certainly could make an argument for the race under performing. Very few have been carrying the torch for the Zerg throughout the whole year. you could, but i could probably make that same argument for any race. i think sc2 balance is in a very good spot right now. I'm not talking about balance. All I'm just saying is that currently, there's no real solid Zerg player, except Soulkey. Being heads above the rest in a race that forms 1/3 of a game is an achievement, and a testament of his skill. life would like to have a talk with you He's not solid for almost a year already. You're right, he has only won 3(4) championships this year and placed second in a fourth. Not very solid at all unfortunately, Any foreign tournament championship doesn't count as legit championship in my eyes. So in my eyes, he's not solid. You can see him as solid as diamond, won't change my mind though.
Then by definition no player is solid because they've all played in tournaments with foreign players. I mean, all the WCS finals had foreigners play in them. Roughly the same format as many foreign weekend tournaments with (roughly) the same caliber of players.
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EPT
